MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 If it didn't work, Burton would not use it. I am not saying it is perfect or the future or anything else you guys are going to use to pick this apart. BUT, there is NO WAY Burton would risk the liability with something that would be unsafe. Use you own bindings at you own risk however. The channel is designed to use the bindings designed for the channel, everything else...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Well, that's why I started the thread - I wanted to hear from anyone who had put the system through the wringer as my gut reaction was not based on direct experience. Whether it works or not, we can all have an opinion on the marketing/proprietary etc aspects of the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Whether it works or not, we can all have an opinion on the marketing/proprietary etc aspects of the design. If I remember right, Ride invented it and Burton liked it so much they bought the company..... They may have actually bought Ride for other reasons, but this binding system came alone for the "ride". This isn't right. I was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnfusion Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Like I said, I like the concept. I really wanted a Supermodel X this year but I am not willing to throw down $600 on a board with some new gimmick technology. That's not to say its not good or won't possibly be 'the future', but I for one will wait a few years before buying a board with this technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 -Wasn't the first 'channel' system invented/implemented by Revelation snowboards?-Isn't RIDE owned by k2? Crap, am I that far off? I'll look into it. I must be getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I have the Channel on a new Supermodel...I put the bindings at F and B 45deg. and I use a third strap on an old pair (last years) mission bindings. I have thrown all 170 lbs. around as I have for years and there is NO DIFFERENCE or any extra play that I can Feel. I put the bindings on and tightened the screws...NO PROBLEM Disclaimer: This was "carving" on greens and blues in perfect Aspen groomed trails and skidding on anything steep. Have to quote SBS because he deletes all his posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 We are all old. Burton, K2, same thing... Both evil. You were on the right track. You were right. I was thinking of Forum. All I found for the track mounting system was the patent. It is some guys, not a company. http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=-pgQAAAAEBAJ&dq=08/901387 Oh well, I went back and "fixed" my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I wonder... Here is the Burton patent... http://www.google.com/patents?id=XA8QAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Aaah. OK.. Revelation design was dual-channel, the Burton design is single. While probably not a patent infringement, the Burton design had to have been inspired by the Revelation design. No doubt, it is very common in other industries for R&D to work on improving a current patent from another company. As long as you can show an improvement, you can obsolete the other patent. It can get expensive, but if you have the bucks it can be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Head had the double channel thing for at least 5 years, probably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I just bought a 2010 Burton Custom V-Rocker 151 with the Channel system. It was 50% off at http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/ I'm using Burton C60 bindings. Burton supplied the adaptor plate for free to retro-fit my disk binding to the channel system. I also saw retro-fit disk plates for Flow bindings at Sport Chalet for around $15. I also read about people grinding down the Burton retro-fit disks to fit other manufacturer’s bindings. I've only ridden it one day and I weigh in at 135 lb, so I don't have any data on the durability issue. And since I’m not launching 20 ft airs, I not worried about ripping out the hardware. The Custom V-Rocker carved really well for a freestyle board. It held the carve until boot-out. It felt quick edge to edge and I didn’t feel any dead spots in the flex. The board flexed nice and evenly. I did my carving on blue runs on the way to the park and pipe. The rocker made the board very forgiving. When riding the pipe, I had some bad landings where I thought for sure I’d catch an edge, but I rode through it. I couldn’t butter my cambered freestyle boards and had problems with wall rides. The rockered board made all that jibbing stuff much easier; at least I felt way more confident. The next time out, I’ll angle the bindings more to see how hard I can carve the new board. This will be for ****s and grins because, I’ll stick to the Coiler Schtubby and hard boots for the real carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowriter Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 I agree with s.orecchio. Burton gloms on to ideas from other makers and then patents them for their own. Not exactly unprecedented behavior. I think it's also important to note that it's not like Burton's R&D is minimal. They put a lot of money into it and Jake is known for always looking for ways to improve his boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharples Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 thanks for the review on the Burton Custom V rocker 151, I have the same exact board from the same store coming in today, and I've heard it actually makes a nice carving board, so I'd like some feedback from someone who's actually ridden it that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 I had a T-Bolt shear off on my back foot this morning allowing the binding to spin freely... I managed to avoid the trees in front of me and bring it to a safe stop... I have just sent this Pic along with my Friendly Comments to Jake... Just Glad there are at least 2 Bolts and not just one...maybe 3 would be better? or 4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 I had a T-Bolt shear off on my back foot this morning allowing the binding to spin freely...I managed to avoid the trees in front of me and bring it to a safe stop... I have just sent this Pic along with my Friendly Comments to Jake... Just Glad there are at least 2 Bolts and not just one...maybe 3 would be better? or 4? can you put new bolts in the track? is the board alright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 I had a T-Bolt shear off on my back foot this morning allowing the binding to spin freely...I managed to avoid the trees in front of me and bring it to a safe stop... I have just sent this Pic along with my Friendly Comments to Jake... Just Glad there are at least 2 Bolts and not just one...maybe 3 would be better? or 4? Holy crap! those two bolts are the only thing holding a channel board to the bindings??? People will buy anything these days (I mean that literally and figuratively). No way in hell I would trust my safety to just those two itty bitty bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Holy crap! those two bolts are the only thing holding a channel board to the bindings??? People will buy anything these days (I mean that literally and figuratively). No way in hell I would trust my safety to just those two itty bitty bolts. Well, looks to me like a Bad T-Bolt and 65 days of Riding made it snap... My binding of course stayed on the Board, but had a nice FREE SPIN effect to it Our Son works at one of the Snowboard Shops so it was easy to get replacement bolts I think I will just replace with new bolts, after 30 days of use in the future. Having been in Construction for many years, this type of metal bolt failure is just not that uncommon as quality of the general Bolt population has been degrading for years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Softcarver Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I have actually never ridden it nor will I ever, but from speaking with the guys down at my local shop the screws loosen up often. And with only two screws holding you to the board this can be very bad. Besides not being compatible with other bindings the burton channel bindings have limited angles which do not accomodate an aggressive stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just give 'er Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I've got a Burton Hero which I ride as my park and play board, with CO2s mounted. I ride it pretty hard, carving blacks, riding bumps aggressively, and hitting the park. Last season, and early this season the screws would loosen up a little and I would have to tighten them every few runs to stop any binding wiggle. Then half way through the season, my back binding started sliding down the track. It would be nice and tight and I'd get to the bottom of a run and I'd have a 3" wider stance then I started with. I called Burton and they suggested replacing the hardware. I did and it lasted about two weeks before it started all again. I think the underside of the channel has become stripped. I talked to another rider who has EST bindings, and has had one or both screws loosen enough for his binding to rotate on the board mid run. After the seasons over, it's warranty time. Until then, my screws get a little tighten at the bottom of every run! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Rover Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I talked to another rider who has EST bindings' date=' and has had one or both screws loosen enough for his binding to rotate on the board mid run.After the seasons over, it's warranty time. Until then, my screws get a little tighten at the bottom of every run![/quote'] Having not ridden a Burton except as a rental a long time ago, I am not entirely familiar wth their mounting holes...I know they use their own proprietary "3-hole" system, but I've never given one much of a look-see. With that said, however, I HAVE had luck on standard 4-hole systems with using THREADLOCKER BLUE on the threads of the screw. Don't use the red, as it may be too hard to undo the screw if you want to change stance or stow the binding. It's gotta be totally dry when you apply the threadlocker, though...so it is better to do it the night before. Just as an aside, though: why the heck does Burton use such a crazy, proprietary system if many people complain?? Makes no sense to me, other than being a mode to ensure the sale of Burton bindings. I have NEVER had a problem with my simple 4-screw disc system, other than the odd loose screw. Gravity IS Life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I have 65 days on this system with an average of 5 hrs. a day. I have had to tighten one screw twice in that time frame. Using a magnifying glass I looked at the broken T-Bolt and blame the break on a bolt that was of poor quality. As a way though to keep my peace of mind I will change out the bolts after 30 days of use regardless. My 45 deg. angles F and B are certainly not applying as much torque as a duck stance of 17 F / -9 B such as my Son rides. I think long term Burton will need to re think this system or insure the quality and hardness of T-Bolts they are supplying their customers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I have actually never ridden it nor will I ever, but from speaking with the guys down at my local shop the screws loosen up often. And with only two screws holding you to the board this can be very bad. Besides not being compatible with other bindings the burton channel bindings have limited angles which do not accomodate an aggressive stance. I've read extensively about the F2 step-in binding that broke after one day of riding and the rider almost had his leg amputated due to injuries sustained from that incident. I've read about and experienced having a bail break on my plate binding with less than 65 days of riding. And I've seen on a couple occasions where a 4-hole disk strap binding separated from the from the board. So I'm not putting up my Burton channel board on E-Bay because of one report of a bad bolt. And for bolts getting loose, the only binding that I owned that had that problem was TD2's. But, I definitely appreciate Softbootsailor's report. As I will also replace the channel bolts after 30 days of riding. But considering I only ride my freestyle board part time, it will take a few years to get 30 days worth of riding in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Using a magnifying glass I looked at the broken T-Bolt and blamethe break on a bolt that was of poor quality. As a way though to keep my peace of mind I will change out the bolts after 30 days of use regardless. Just a thought: if you think the bolt was simply bad and it was not a good bolt "wearing out", maybe you should change the bolt very rarely instead of more often, as it will decrease the number of bolts you use over your lifetime (and decrease the chance that you will run into another bad one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 softbootsailer: Can you tell us how Burton responds to this? Their customer service is second to none and I would think they're gonna do everything in their power to make you happy. This kind of breakage makes for bad press. If this is a real problem, we could see a massive, Toyota-like recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 I suggest trying to get a grade 8 bolt or other aircraft grade equivalent. Not sure what Burton uses but it was obviously not strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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