Who rides both, hard boot and soft

[kinpa]

I think mixing it up makes you a better rider whether it´s using different boards or different boots or whatever.

Yeah, I think mixing it up is good too, but I REALLY ADMIRE those who can do everything on one board! Pipe, bumps, switch, different size turns, etc....

Did you see the video in that section where the guy was launching in the half-pipe on a race board??????? mmmmmmmm.......

[Dr D]

Catek freerides and solamon malamutes. work exceptionally well for me. I think a lot has to do with the gear. a good stiff soft boot and good bindings are very comfortable. crappy boots and half pipe bindings will ruin your day. Flow makes a good binding but you need to pick the stiffer higher support all mtn model. not all flows are created equal. johnasmo knows the best flows ask him.

I ride the x3 lunchtray with cateks and malamutes at high angles with no problems at all. very responsive and fast. really high sidecut boards arent a good match for this set up tho.

[Sultan Guy]

I bought a pair of Burton Driver-X boots a few years back for 60% off of new but haven't gotten around to using them yet. Perhaps this season I will if I can find some good bindings to mount on the Prior ATV. I've been following the splitboard forums and they seem to like the Drivers for their stiffness too.

on the Burton Driver-X. My favorite soft boots until I switched to hard boots. They are definitely stiff enough to carve.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

F2 Eliminator 168 and now Rad Air Reto Lamm 165 with binding risers, Burton Mission bindings and Salomon Malamute bindings. 21/9ish often - last year tried hard boot-ish type angles and wasn't too happy - and this year I'm willing to give duckfoot stance a go, although I'm a little worried about my knees in that scenario.

Not sure if you can properly all-mountain freeride with hard boots. I know some claim otherwise, so perhaps I just haven't found the right setup, but I can never get the right combination of heelhold and foot/shin slop on hard boots, and I feel that's important for that type of all-mountain, all-conditions riding.

Also: [W]hat [W]ould ordy [D]o?

:D

greg

[Gtanner]

Tanker 172, Burton Drivers and Technine Pro bindings riding ~20/10. Lots of fun for softer days or afternoons when my legs are dead tired.

I am a believer that learning to carve well on your soft set-up will help with your body position and balance while on your hardboots.

-Gord

[carver]

Soft in powder only. Ride in a surf stance. Works great, been doing it since 92. Alpine since 99.

[WinterGold]

Yeah, I think mixing it up is good too, but I REALLY ADMIRE those who can do everything on one board! Pipe, bumps, switch, different size turns, etc....

Did you see the video in that section where the guy was launching in the half-pipe on a race board??????? mmmmmmmm.......

To a certain degree I agree with you and I also choose my equipment to be versatile, but there are limits.

If you want to lay down some nice carves (especially on steeper slopes), you cannot beat hardboots.

On the other hand, I can´t imagine doing a nosepress on a raceboard.

And I definitely don´t want to do a powder tree run on my raceboard (I have been there before ...).

[Mike T]

Softies have come such a long way in the last 3-4 years. The bindings are more ergonomic, and rather than having one model in one brand that seemed to fit acceptably well, I can find several models from several brands that fit really well.

I think fit is even more important in softies than hard boots.

I also think that with hard boots, one can get away with not riding from the board up much more. With softies you really do need to ride from the board up (initiate turns with feet/ankles and not by throwing higher up parts of your body around).

Wanna make a strong softie toeside without heel lift? This this at home: get in your bare feet stand near a wall so you can catch yourself, and then stand on your toes... not tippy-toes but such that the whole toe is on the floor and the rest of the foot is off the floor. Don't flex your feet to point your toes - you're not doing ballet. Keep your feet relaxed and drop your knees forward and down. Now take it to the snow. The pointing of toes is how you get heel lift in any boot... but its especially troublesome for me anyways in softies.

Having said all the it's a different ride. I've seen highly skilled and mostly lighter riders work a softie setup as aggressively as plates. IMHO it takes more skill to carve hard on softies than plates and the gap in required skill increases with rider mass.

[newcarver]

Depends on what I'm doing that day. I ride soft when I am with my 9 yr old who likes to do steeps, trees, and bumps. Usually have to do a lot of stopping and waiting which tires me out more in hard boots. I usually end up doing a lot of carving when I'm on groomed runs with my softies. I ride a stiff freeride board with stiff boots binding combo. Usually wish I was on hardboots after awhile. I ride AM/FC with hardboots in powder and days that I'm by myself and want to do more carving. I think that the hardboot setup give me better all around performance. Sometimes it is nicer to have the softies in powder as it has a less confining feel, but hardboots will allow me to do high speed blasting through deep pow better I think. Might have to do with the longer board that is stiffer though. Softies definitly have an advantage if you end up doing a lot of walking/hiking around.

[Bobby Buggs]

The pointing of toes is how you get heel lift in any boot... but its especially troublesome for me anyways in softies.

I vividly remember "standing up" in my soft boots. I noticed that when my foot was not totally flat on the board I was struggling. keeping my feet down made a huge difference. Now I know how to flex my legs properly... well I still forget sometimes when im tired:o

[Mike T]

I vividly remember "standing up" in my soft boots. I noticed that when my foot was not totally flat on the board I was struggling. keeping my feet down made a huge difference. Now I know how to flex my legs properly... well I still forget sometimes when im tired:o

These days I occasionally forget when in powder... I have this silly reflex to tense my feet in an attempt to be "light on my feet". Pressure with the feet, absorb with the knees :)

[Dave ESPI]

:lurk:With the right setup and proper gear Bobby, you can be enjoying softboots as often as plates and HBs.

I rode all my stuff today, and while in the morning I was killin it on the carver, I switched to Softies and was equaly as comfortable and killin' it on the slopes.

I can highly reccommend the K2 PODIUM. I bought one brand new from a buddy for this season as he did not ride it lastyear more than 20 minutes and decided he just wanted to stick with SKIS (bah!). It really is a super nice handling board as an all mountain carving softboot board. Im half tempted to slap my plates on it and see how it will do with hardboots.

Hook up with me @ jiminy. I have a few boards there if you want to play one day with soft gear and see if U like any of it again.

THere is no "pain" with softbooting, and aslong as you know houw to use your ankles, you can carve and have just asmuch fun as the eletist pricks some of us are say that you can't :P

We are all on the slopes for the same reason... TO HAVE FUN !

[Ian M]

I enjoy riding soft boots quite a bit, but do so rarely compared to my carving boards. The speed and responsiveness of alpine gear is where my passion really is.

But, there are days and places that carving sucks. Powder, trees, steeps, freeride heaven! (But, I live in Ontario right now) Out west I found my soft gear so comfortable and fun.

When I hate my soft gear is when I try to carve on it. Say I'm teaching someone soft basics, and then want to rip a little without changing gear. For carving, it disappoints me in every possible way. But, that's not what I bought it for... I just remind myself of that!

[martyagt4]

32 Forecast and Flows. Tried some strappy bindings once. Took too long and too damn bothersome to deal with. With my Flows, I step off the lift, give it a kick and slide my back foot in while reaching down to flip up the highback. No getting my ass cold strapping in.

[earthsurfing]

Thought this would be an interesting perspective on the discussion here. Possibly worthy of its own thread...

The Theory of No Highbacks by Mike Ranquet

via easyloungin.com

" If necessity is the mother of all invention then holding an idea in contempt before consideration is the dead-beat dad and progression becomes a proverbial Dodo bird. The idea of riding without highbacks draws such an overwhelmingly, unwavering rejection that I see it as a compliment. Trying something pales in comparison to the strides taken in order to avoid the inevitable.

When I started doing switch runs in contests, no one saw the logic, including the judges, as I literally wasn’t scored. Furthermore most of my contemporaries saw no point either, so I find it amusing that I get the same reaction now as I did then (verbatim); “you can’t ride like that.”

In the 80’s boards were wooden (sometimes drywall), edgeless, had ropes tied to the nose and we rode in socks with metal skags (whatever the **** those are); so any support was welcomed. Unlike the west coast; Europe, Japan and the US east coast had been predominately ski influenced (into the mid 90’s). Predicated on the likelihood that the competitive forum would be racing (like skiing), the wide acceptance of the highback and stiffening of boots is put in perspective.

The lame-duck two-piece ski boot/binding design has remained unchanged (essentially), representing the best we can offer since 1986. The design factors of forward lean, stiffness and rigidity are taken from ski boots; which in and of itself is a testament to the importance of drawing influence from skating and surfing (wake boarders figured it out), not skiing. Let’s not forget; until the fish shape opened the doors to off center, directional boards, eventually leading the way to rockered bases; skiing also blessed us with camber.

In skating and surfing, maximum control is achieved by minimization of what’s between your foot and your board. Just as TV and junk food prevent people from being in touch with nature; the highback prevents riders from being in touch with their board. The loss of progression is put into perspective when you realize how much our mobility and balance have not only compromised our ability to manipulate a snowboard but remain untapped.

Before you convince yourself that you can’t turn on a heel edge without highbacks ask yourself how do surfers & skaters do it? They use their body to lean into the turn; without boots and in the case of surfing the boards are 18” wide, they’re working against a current and they’re barefoot (savages). Snowboarders can’t absorb kinks on rails because their ankles are locked; whereas skaters absorb kinks with their ankles. To allow this progress inhibiting, ski boot influenced piece of plastic to dictate every aspect of riding is embarrassing (I think).

Heels withstand weight and ankles are the pivoting point of balance; thus the use of highbacks cuts off the ability to balance and distribute ones weight. Theoretically your toes need support before your heels would. I’m sure someone is developing a halo like structure to ensure you don’t have to try at all.

The overdesigned, forward-leaning snowboard boot already does the high backs job for them. Boots ensure an unprecedented amount of ankle immobility; the stiffening support to the degree of non-movement is where it stands today. Riding with highbacks is comparable to limping years after an injury; your body works around the limp and doesn’t truly recover.

The marketability and overdesign of the highback is matched only by there uselessness, in short; highbacks are archaic, expired training wheels that are rolling the sport into an evolutionary cul-de-sac.

PS: Using lowbacks ‘back in the day’ has as much validity as using step-in (****) bindings; they both inhibit the flexing of the ankle.

Standing up

You wouldn’t ever think of it, as it’s never been an option; it’s so nice to strap-in, stand-up and go without sitting or crouching. No need to dig a strap in pit when in the backcountry and easy toe to heel edge hops (visa versa) when compromised by steep conditions. I sacrificed so much comfort and stability over the years in order to let a 6” piece of plastic dictate how I much I could control my board. Every movement you make is predicated on the highback; the false sense of stability (via burning your quads) is of no advantage to the rider.

Turning

The feeling of digging in your heels so deep with all your weight then releasing the energy, rather than absorbing it, allow for more powerful, tighter turns than thought possible. Over-rotating heel turns and allowing the tail to dig in and the board to whip itself back to forward. Also you can absolutely destroy frontside lips, bashing the **** out of anything with all your weight on your heels.

Traversing

When forced to traverse on the heels, even a caveman will learn to ride switch. Traversing burns your quads because you’re squatting, flexing the ankles (like on the toe edge) allow a higher traverse sans the pain associated with heel traverses.

Mind & Body

The natural flow or chakras (look it up dummy) of ones body is skewed; ankles locked at 90° kink the body (ankles, knees, hips). The highback doesn’t allow the energy to be distributed throughout your body while on the heel edge. When applying pressure to the heel edge, most of your energy is apportioned to holding the squat position. Essentially you’re applying what energy is leftover after burning your quad muscles. The pain one feels after riding has way more to do with squatting all day than it does with riding. The psychological dependence on highbacks is strong, but the physical is nil.

Transitions

Halfpipe runs are predominantly ridden on the toe edge, as it’s easier to generate speed due to the flexing of the ankle when riding up the wall. Ever notice on quarter pipes and heel edge walls that riders are locked? The highback inhibits the rider from pumping the wall (hell edge) or springing off the lip; instead riders float off the lip (not pop) as they run a flat base on heel edge walls. Take Danny Way; he goes just as high as the best snowboarders with half the speed (after landing a back flip) because he pumps the transition then pops off the lip, snowboarders have only momentum.

Landing

In the air, your ankles want to flex (slightly) to keep balance; highbacks inhibit the natural balance resulting in snowboarder’s “opening up” before landing. Staying tight by minor ankle adjustments is how skateboarders do it. On frontside walls, instead of having to be over your board, you can push the board in front of you (stalefish, lien-crooked cop). Then your feet can adjust for the transition easier when your board in front you; like a proper FS Ollie when skating It also literally answers the age-old question of why straight airs are so hard.

February 2004

I rode a snow-skate (RIP) once at Snoqualmie Pass; Mike Olsen let me take a run on his. First thing I noticed was that I cold push my back leg out on a heel turns. It made me wonder, as my balance wasn’t compromised why snowboards even had highbacks.

January 2005

I needed to commit myself to the concept, so I clipped my highbacks off with shears and strapped in. I realized that if I can skate 20’ (coffee in hand) to chair 7 without falling, then I’ve proven that I’m able to ride without highbacks. The very first thing I noticed is that I didn’t notice anything at all; no really… I can’t stress it enough, nothing, zip, nada.

December 2007- April 2008

This is when it evolved from ****s & giggles to being an absolute benefit to snowboarding. Reason being; I rode everyday and was able to utilize this factor to change the way I stand on, turn, jump and land a snowboard.

[BlueB]

Next, he should drop the bindings all together and go No-Baording. His transition would be complete, an he could ride just like the skaters or surfers, no attachements. Come to think of it, drop the soft boots too and just ride in a pair of sneekers or wet suite booties...

I'm quite happy to "ski" my snowboard and I have the boots to prove it ;) :D

[Willow 15]

I have gone from three to one also. Then again I probably will use soft boots for powder and sledging. Its nice to have options but its also brilliant to have a boot that you can use for everything, thanks BlueB:1luvu:

[jburrill]

I ride half and half. I love both and can carve both either way. One helps the other. As soon as I jump back on my softies I say "I love this". As soon as I jump back on plates I say the same thing. Top to bottom, softies are faster. Carving hard and ripping it harder requires plates. I do think that riding softies helps me to use my body more and not rely as much on the support of equipment. Its gets me into better shape for actual carving on race gear.

[jtslalom]

1988 -> 2010

soft only 1988 - 1990

soft and semi-plate (Burton flex bindings on pink burton pj) 1990 - 1991

soft and hard plate 1991 - 1993 (Hot Logical GS & SL on snow pro plates)

hard plates only 1993 - 2004

hard plates and soft 2004 - 2005

soft only 2005 - 2010

My experience snowboarding has brought me full circle. I don't know if I will ever ride plates again or not but I sure had a good time when I did. I don't think my knees can take it. That is one of the reasons I went back to soft riding. The only reason I might go back is because I want my kids to eventually ride hard plates.

[Bobby Buggs]

I dont believe I was looking to Carve on a soft boot.

[Gunnar]

Riders who use toe and heel lift on hard-boots should also try that on soft setup.

I use 8° of heel lift on my powder-boards. Soft bindings at 0° rear, and 43° front. (Yes its allot of angles, but I walk like a duck to..!)

Heel lift increases the ankle dorsiflexion range. And increases your range of motion, up and down to suck up bumps, tuck under trees and really pump your turns.

I also feel that it makes it possible to rotate more one heel-side turns, and still have enough pressure on the rear high-back.

I want to try some toe-lift on the front to, to move some of the load to the rear leg. But I have only one lift-plate.

I wish Catek will come out with Olympic's with Fastec entry system soon..

[pegtal]

1988 -> 2010

soft and semi-plate (Burton flex bindings on pink burton pj) 1990 - 1991

Ashild Loftus's setup.

[Bobby Buggs]

Dave, Could be a Evil visit to Jiminy with TreeTrimmer tomorrow, You around?

[b0ardski]

baseless, highbackless

Might have to rig up a no board and use my old plate compatible nordica SBS,

there is a guy at schwietzer that rides a snow skate deck on what looks like a 155 powder skwal, he rips.

I have ridden this board in sorels and hightop tennis shoes but for all mt. I prefer support for my 48 yr old ankles.

Like Blue B I ski a snowboard and it works really well on all my boards in all possible conditions.

The comparison pic with the UPZs above again has me wishing for DINtec heels on NTN tele boots.

A couple days ago I met a young guy ripping smooth switchcarves on NTN teles:eek:

both ends of this spectrum become limited in application,

I would like one boot in the of the middle of the stiffness spectrum that can stepin to any board or any skis

"we can rebuild it, we have the fintechnology"

[MUD]

Im really going to make an effort to try softboots again this season. Have not been on them since 95. What should I expect??

They have come a long way. The boots are much better, stiff or soft, they have better liner designs and lacing options. Bindings are much tougher and run from super soft up to really stiff (catek).......

As long as you are not expecting hardboot performance you will be pleased with the progress that has been made.