Please dont yell at me.

[jburrill]

If TD3's are so good, then why arent WC racers using them? I did some research and saw that (in FIS race photos) most men are on F2 or Phiokka bindings. And the ladies are using Burton, F2 , and Phiokka. I did not see anybody racing on Bombers. Nor have I ever seen anybody except for a couple of guys like Mort (using Bombers) in my previous but limited racing experience. Now, Im not going to be racing any world cups soon. Id just like to ride like I will be. Im torn, should I just snap and buy some TD3's because they look so damn nice.

[inkaholic]

Fin has a racer version that to my knowledge isn't yet being offered to the public. Testing of this version was well received by men, women and light weight riders last season.

Yes, most are on F2, phioka etc. but that may be changing in the very near future.

You'll have to wait and see the new product, aka. Sidewinder

Ink

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I believe the key reason has been based around flex. The F2 tends to allow more flex ( more forgiveness so to speak). The TD3 has to some degree addressed this issue. The new "Race TD3 Mods" are evidently going another step further to improve the flex (Feel) for those that want more movement.

TD3 has not been available very long, those that have them are big fans.

F2 is somewhat limited in terms of canting options , or at least not as simple as the Bomber TD series.

Just a few reasons, more will follow I am sure.

Yes, the are burly, work well and I am not a racer.

I ride F2s on my powder boards currently.

[carvedog]

THEY ARE GOOD BECAUSE WE HAVE DECIDED THEY ARE AND YOU SHOULD BUY SOME BECAUSE FIN WILL HUNT YOU DOWN IF YOU DON'T.

Kidding. I thought the earlier ones were a bit stiff too.

I had my grubby little mits on a pair of TD3s for about a week and I think they are genius.

Waaaaay adjustable. I have never ridden any canting and I want to try some.

Why after 17 years? Why not? just trying to mix it up.

I ride mostly Burton's now and like the flex. I think it will change where the flex occurs but I am looking forward to the SIs and the Fintec heel to complete the package.

[inkaholic]

Sidewinder even got Thor off Burton Race Plates. He put all BRP's up for sale after testing the Sidewinder version.

Think side to side adjustable movement without having to loosen the bails to the point they may not hold you in very well.

There may be a photo (not close up) in the Happy Fun Plate thread. Ben Fairchild and many on the Steamboat team were testing them last season.

I don't think Fin has an Intec version of the Sidewinder. We'll have to wait and see.

Ink

[Hans]

It doesn't matter what racers use, TD3's are just the most awesome bindings on the planet right now. And that's the only thing what counts ;) :D

[MUD]

I think with bindings it comes down to what you like for flex.....

I personally LOVE Burtons but with me now riding a metal board and weighing around 200lbs, they make me nervous (tend to ride nastier terrain now, was afraid of braking them). I was torn between the F2's and the "sidewinders" Since the Sidewinders only exist for racers so far, I got tired of waiting and got F2's. Snow is close.

I find TD3's too stiff, especially the step-in's.... You could even say WAY too stiff.

[RCrobar]

Hi Fin

Since the TD3 Race/Sidewinder side to side flex system seems to be 'out of the bag' and talked about in several different threads. Do you think you could find it in your heart to post a picture for the average Joe who haven't seen the prototype yet?

Christmas the Olympics are just around the corner, show some holiday spirit a bit early!

Thanks either way.

Rob

[Hans]

Hi Fin

Since the TD3 Race/Sidewinder side to side flex system seems to be 'out of the bag' and talked about in several different threads. Do you think you could find it in your heart to post a picture for the average Joe who haven't seen the prototype yet?

Christmas the Olympics are just around the corner, show some holiday spirit a bit early!

Thanks either way.

Rob

Have asked for the same @ Fin. Especially cause there were some Swoardguys who claimed they have already ridden them last season!

So, where is that nice upgrade. May be Fin is just busy to make a large stock of it before .............

[pow4ever]

Hi Fin

Since the TD3 Race/Sidewinder side to side flex system seems to be 'out of the bag' and talked about in several different threads. Do you think you could find it in your heart to post a picture for the average Joe who haven't seen the prototype yet?

Christmas the Olympics are just around the corner, show some holiday spirit a bit early!

Thanks either way.

Rob

Second!!!! Plan to pick it up when it's available pending that it's also suitable for the non racer.

--

David

[inkaholic]

Second!!!! Plan to pick it up when it's available pending that it's also suitable for the non racer.

--

David

Thor Von Rippington is non racer.

Ink

[jburrill]

Thanks for the responses. And the sidewinder is sick. That does it. TD3. I remember using my TD1's. I could rip the sickest carves on the bluest ice. Yes they were stiff and thats why I could rip on them. I used to ride the Burton Plates when the snow was softer but could never really rip with the leverage of Bombers. As I developed more finesse in my riding, I was able to appreciate the versitility of Burtons, but the wow factor was just not there. So, to heck with race performance (Ill use Burtons for that). I just want to get back to kicking some ass on bindings that will let me do that.

Im going to buy some TD3's right now before I cool off.

[nekdut]

I'm going to buy some TD3's right now before I cool off.

You won't regret it at all! :)

[Jack M]

I'm in Falmouth. :)

You won't be disappointed with the TD3, and you'll be able to upgrade it to Sidewinder if you want.

Racers seek flexible-flyer bindings because they have to deal with bone-jarring race ruts. We freecarving weekend warriors do not.

See you up at the loaf??

[MUD]

Sounds like you will love them.

And if not, they have a great resale value.

[NateW]

I don't know what racers see in those other bindings. I'm am sure there's something - I'm sure they've made informed decisions. Conventional wisdom says it's about flex, and that seems plausible enough. However it's not worth it to me. I got tired of breaking bindings a long time ago, but TDs have been good to me. I'm honestly afraid to ride anything that looks less robust.

When I see racers on bindings that look as robust and reliable as TDs, I'll consider riding what racers ride. Until then I'll be riding TDs because they inspire more confidence that anything else I can find (Cateks being a very close 2nd).

[philw]

Well, I'm not a racer, but assuming we're not playing fanboys... the appeal of the F2 bindings to me is basically simplicity and elegance.

I know there's also elegance in our host's (and Catek's) "machined from a solid block of aluminium" approach. They're clearly fine pieces of engineering. I almost bought copies of both just to have the pleasure of holding them (I'm not kidding).

Size

But the US designs are very big. Rather like American cars which obviously make sense to people in the US, to me they are just big. I weight 62 kilos, and I've never broken a bail, although I've broken a few boots. The bindings aren't going to break. I don't need heavier, bigger, stronger. I like light, small, neat.

Settings

I don't need to adjust everything to the micron level. In fact settings worry me as they can move, plus I don't want to have to worry about them as I shift boards. So I like a simple binding which I can set up once and then leave alone. I re-tweak the bindings pretty much only when I change boots.

Height

I don't like a lot of height above my board. I know that you can get F2s with spacers under them and I know lots of fast people deliberately use lift. For me, it's just more stuff, and more stuff to go wrong.

I find the discussion on flex interesting. When I first moved to F2 (or "Proflex" as they were then) I found them incredibly responsive, although I think that was probably the move to Intec heels which I did at the same time. Obviously with all this you need to consider the whole system - at least the boots plus the bindings.

I'll be watching with interest future releases from all the companies - I'm sure this can be done better, but "better" means different things to different people.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

How are F2s "less robust"? Because they're not entirely CNCed out of metal? Or do you think you're going to destroy the bindings that 75%+ of professional alpine snowboarders seem to use?

I'm just curious. I've been surprised lately at the number of people I've seen hawking TD1s and OS1s to "new/returning alpiners," for not much less than the price at which they could snag a used pair of new F2s. I'm sorry, but IMO both of those are clearly substandard bindings by today's standards – and I rode TD1s for a year before switching back to Burton Race plates in '03 I believe it was.

I guess maybe it depends where you're riding as well – if you only have great snow in your area, or much poorer conditions (say out east)?

Just some thoughts.

greg

[Jack M]

Well, I'm not a racer, but assuming we're not playing fanboys... the appeal of the F2 bindings to me is basically simplicity and elegance.

I know there's also elegance in our host's (and Catek's) "machined from a solid block of aluminium" approach. They're clearly fine pieces of engineering. I almost bought copies of both just to have the pleasure of holding them (I'm not kidding).

Size

But the US designs are very big. Rather like American cars which obviously make sense to people in the US, to me they are just big. I weight 62 kilos, and I've never broken a bail, although I've broken a few boots. The bindings aren't going to break. I don't need heavier, bigger, stronger. I like light, small, neat.

TD2 and 3 are lighter than the TD1. The size of them is dictated by the cant/lift adjustment mechanism. The screws that mount the top plate to the cant disk have to reside on a circle outside the center disk.

Settings

I don't need to adjust everything to the micron level. In fact settings worry me as they can move, plus I don't want to have to worry about them as I shift boards. So I like a simple binding which I can set up once and then leave alone. I re-tweak the bindings pretty much only when I change boots.

TD3s can be unmounted and re-mounted whole, without disassembling or changing any settings. And on TD2s and 3s, all settings are quantifiable and readable right on the binding - in other words, easily repeatable. Also once mounted, the settings cannot move, back out, wiggle, rattle, etc.

Height

I don't like a lot of height above my board. I know that you can get F2s with spacers under them and I know lots of fast people deliberately use lift. For me, it's just more stuff, and more stuff to go wrong.

TD2s are lower than TD1s. TD3s are slightly higher than TD2s (maybe the same height as TD1?) due to the improved dampening mechanism which was enlarged due to popular demand.

And if you want any cant and/or lift, you are going to have to accept some increase in height no matter what binding.

[Phil]

Or do you think you're going to destroy the bindings that 75%+ of professional alpine snowboarders seem to use?

I don't think, I know. Many of us here have broken those bindings repeatedly. I will only go with bindings that have little chance of breakage (I only ride Bombers). That is my #1 criteria for bindings.

I would put up with less performance for the sake of NEVER having a foot release from breakage. Luckily, with TD's of any vintage, I don't feel like I have to compromise.

[carvedog]

I don't think, I know. Many of us here have broken those bindings repeatedly. I will only go with bindings that have little chance of breakage (I only ride Bombers). That is my #1 criteria for bindings.

I would put up with less performance for the sake of NEVER having a foot release from breakage. Luckily, with TD's of any vintage, I don't feel like I have to compromise.

Metal fatigues over time and use.

I have personally seen at least three different TD1s break bail.

[Phil]

Metal fatigues over time and use.

I have personally seen at least three different TD1s break bail.

Agreed, but I have lost count of the Burton failures.

I don't ride my TD1's anymore, they are too old and have hundreds of days on them. When I deem my TD2's to be too old, I won't ride them either. Hopefully my judgment on their fatigue will be wise enough to preclude breakage.

[Bordy]

This is a really played out argueement, and well since Jack always wants to pimp the TD I guess I'll play the other side or well some side?

Do bindings break: Yes all bindings break some times including metal bindings, lots of times bail breakage is caused by miss adjustment that places stress on the bails and sole plate.

Are Metal bindings stiffer then plastic, well unless your Matt Morrison and you have milled a F2 heel plate out of aluminum then yes, Well even Matt says his metal part hinders the board feel and flex he enjoys, it's worth the durability.

Do some of the heavest guys on the planet that rider harder then you can imagain ride F2s with out them breaking: well yes, yes they do, heck even klug and smith rode burtons for a decade plus of course soom time the burtons .

Are the new sidewinders different: yes, and if you buy TD3s you maybe able to upgrade them later?

What binding should you buy? I really don't know there are a ton of varibles, stiff board vs stiff boots etc....

If you really are not sure what binding to buy and you don't have the option to demo gear, then perhaps your best bet is to call Fin or myself and ask questions Fin sells the TD3 and the Ibex, allthough he of course would like you to be on the TD3 if your not a canadate for the binding he will let you know, we want to make you happy. You can also contact Hardbooter and we will share our knowledge with you.

Although I think the forum is a great way to ask questions, the answer you recive often have other motives. Also many riders may not have your style, gear or terrain and allthough they really want to give you good advise it may not be your best optition...

Just one guys who sells several bindings opinion..

[NateW]

How are F2s "less robust"? Because they're not entirely CNCed out of metal? Or do you think you're going to destroy the bindings that 75%+ of professional alpine snowboarders seem to use?

Yes. I've broken all-metal bindings from Burton and Nitro, and flailing down the hill with one boot loose is terrifying. Whatever advantage the F2s might have, it's not worth it to me if the bindings are any less strong.

How often to the pros break bindings? I vaguely remember hearing about a top-tier PGS rider with a large collection of spare parts for Burton bindings.

[NateW]

Metal fatigues over time and use.

I have personally seen at least three different TD1s break bail.

...which is another reason I ride intec, and more recently, fintec. The heel blocks seem stronger than bails, and there's relatively little stress on the toe bails so I don't worry about those at all. The aluminum heel do blocks wear out, but at least that's a problem that you can see coming well in advance.