Headphones for riding

[Kex]

I take it to mean....

if some outta controller runs you over and claims he is not at fault because he yelled "on-your-left" just before decking you and you didn't avoid him because you didn't hear him over your tunes, BS.

it is his resposibility to yield to the downhill rider.

maybe its just me, but this just sounds dumb to me. who cares if its the other guys fault? if i can avoid a collision by being able to hear, and possibly avoid broken bones, then thats worth it to me.

just because it would be his fault, doesnt mean that i want to be hit.

[Petrol]

maybe its just me, but this just sounds dumb to me. who cares if its the other guys fault? if i can avoid a collision by being able to hear, and possibly avoid broken bones, then thats worth it to me.

just because it would be his fault, doesnt mean that i want to be hit.

True. as with any crash with injuries, regardless of who is a fault, you're still hurt.

But then again, wtf is so hard about keeping your head on a swivel when in close proximity to other folks?

wtf is so hard about limiting the agressiveness of your riding, to perhaps 80%, to allow such head swivels when sharing open slopes with other riders/skiiers? (plugged into your mp3 player or not)

Really, wtf is so hard about looking and being aware of the UPHILL folks when your traversing the slopes (at high speed) rather then following the fall-line like most everyone else on the slopes? (plugged in or not)

After all, I'm sure that to some of those startled skidders who have never ridden around a carver hooking a fast turn that put him right in their path, he may as well be "That-Guy" standing trail side (or at trail merge) that decides to resume riding without first looking uphill. ;)

I guess we can always stay home and play Wii snowboarding... but then some folks have managed to hurt themselves doing that too

btw, nothing personal, just using your post as a springboard from which to rant

[ak_rider]

so what exactly would i be listening for to let me know i'm about to be hit from behind? the first time i evr got hit was from behind, and i don't recall there being any type of specific noise that let me know it was coming.

in fact, listening to music helped me get over my fear of being hit from behind again. the first few times i went riding after being hit if i would hear someone scraping behind me i would stop and let that person go by. and most of the time it would be an in control person who was nowhere near me. then i started wearing headphones more often and the music drowned out the scraping noises uphill from me and allowed me to focus on riding andhaving fun again.

also, have any of the anit-headphone folks ever tried talking to someone who is riding right next to you. with the wind noise and the board on the snow noise, it makes it pretty difficult to make out what the other person is saying. so hearing abilities on the mountain while going down it are pretty compromised to begin with, regardless of headphone use.

just because i choose to listen to music instead of the wind howling by my ears, it does not make me dangerous.

[Erik J]

I love my Shure in ear buds. They block all wind noise. Even if I don't have music going I still wear them to block the windnoise.

I might be alone on this one but, IMO, if I cut out the stress of hearing the wind blasting and ice cutting in my ears while I ride, I cut out "stress" while riding. Imagine trying to read the newspaper while sipping coffee and having the wind blast in your ears. If I don't hear the sound of ice under my edges, I tend to just ride as aggressively as I would in hero conditions. I just forget it's there and focus on form and fun. This is my experience on ice though. Tree riding in powder is a whoooole other story for me.

[Kex]

so what exactly would i be listening for to let me know i'm about to be hit from behind?

just as you can hear your own edges, you can hear other rider's edges.

like i said earlier, when I'm alone, i ride with music as well, but i keep it low enough that it doesn't impair my hearing, and i cant even hear the music while i ride. its for when im stopped or on the lift.

I just don't see why someone would purposely impair their senses when flying down a hill at high speeds - especially when all of us know too well that other riders and skiiers are not used to being around carvers and the unorthodox patterns we take down the hill. and for what? to hear a little bit of music? please. I'm riding to ride, not for another excuse to turn on my ipod.

This makes me think of going to my classes. What if I decide to wear my headphones there? I don't need to hear the professor, he's putting up slides and writing notes, and I can even try to read his lips right?

I'll take every advantage I can get, thank you. If they come out with skiier radar on a HUD for my goggles, I'm up for that too!

[crazyTKDsquirrel]

I'll take every advantage I can get, thank you. If they come out with skiier radar on a HUD for my goggles, I'm up for that too!

Count me in!

[queequeg]

Retail this is a rip-off, but it is great for $20-$30. The monster iezclick for ipods or iphones. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-iEZClick-Remote-Control-Black/dp/B000HVHGI6

I rode caked in powder at Mt Hood today http://www.skihood.com/mountain/conditions/default.aspx and this remote never had any problem with the wet. I just sling it over my arm and it worked great.

I'm thinking of replacing the ipod controller on my mountainsmith pack with this - I've had one in the past and they are very good. The big buttons are a big help and that little ipod remote is just too delicate for snowboarding I think.

[Call me jack]

I'm sorry, headphones have no place at a ski area. Without a sense of hearing you are a hazard on the trail. At least the dolts that ride with earbubs you can see the wires to their ears and know to stay clear of them. But wireless bluetooth ons that can hide under a helmet and hood are just a bad thing.

although i agree with this completely, i will, on occation ride with music. I generally am riding much faster than every one around me so i'm not really worried about hitting any one. Music just seems to throw off my focus (i know too much music thorey lol)

[DjulezD]

Music is a good stimulant and a good pacekeeper. You just need to keep the volume adjusted.

I always listen to music while roller-skating but never while snowboarding, which, from a safety perspective, doesn't make any sense, urban jungle being far more crowded than any slope and noises are meant to be signals in this environment.

I guess it's because the hills I ride are too small for the music I like.

[Dave Winters]

Koss KSC-75's. Great phones at a great price. Just unsnap the phone from the goofy ear clips that come with 'em, and tuck them into your helmet. Mine stay put just fine in my POC helmet.

If you don't believe me, just do a search at http://www.head-fi.org/

Absolutely the best phone for the price.

Oh- and ipod inside with remote clipped on the jacket outside. Never had a problem in any weather...

[Snowriter]

I take it to mean....

if some outta controller runs you over and claims he is not at fault because he yelled "on-your-left" just before decking you and you didn't avoid him because you didn't hear him over your tunes, BS.

it is his resposibility to yield to the downhill rider.

While that statement adheres to "the code" it ignores reality.

Newbies can and do lose control. By listening to music you make it impossible to hear them when they yell out a warning.

Long time riders can and do lose control -- whether it's the result of unseen boilerplate, over aggressive riding, or a simple mistake -- by listening to music you make it impossible to hear them yell out a warning.

Now, let's say something terrible happens (and I truly hope it never does). The skier yells out a warning. If you heard the warning, you would not have been hit. But, you don't hear the warning because you are listening to tunes. The skier slams into you and you suffer a broken arm.

Okay, so you can be really angry that the person hit you because they lost control. You can claim they didn't follow "the code."

Guess what? Your arm is still broken.

Oh, by the way, you are partially responsible because you knowingly reduced one of your senses that would have helped you avoid being hit. Forget the code, by purposely compromising your hearing while you were riding, you put yourself in greater danger. You are now partially at fault regardless of what "the code" says.

Let's take it a step further. You're really angry about the accident and you sue the skier. Boy, are you going to love being cross-examined when opposing counsel learns that you were listening to music when you got hit and that you didn't hear the warnings from the skier because you were listening to tunes.

Guess what? You can cite "the code" all day and all night in court, the judge/jury will find you partially at fault and reduce any potential awards accordingly (if you get any award at all -- some juries might equate your wearing headphones with talking on the cell phone while driving and award you nothing).

So, you proved your point. It was the skier's responsibility to yield, so you felt it was your right to crank your tunes because it was their job not to hit you. Enjoy the broken arm and the reduced/zero damages.

[Petrol]

While that statement adheres to "the code" it ignores reality.

Newbies can and do lose control. By listening to music you make it impossible to hear them when they yell out a warning.

Long time riders can and do lose control -- whether it's the result of unseen boilerplate, over aggressive riding, or a simple mistake -- by listening to music you make it impossible to hear them yell out a warning.

Now, let's say something terrible happens (and I truly hope it never does). The skier yells out a warning. If you heard the warning, you would not have been hit. But, you don't hear the warning because you are listening to tunes. The skier slams into you and you suffer a broken arm.

Okay, so you can be really angry that the person hit you because they lost control. You can claim they didn't follow "the code."

Guess what? Your arm is still broken.

Oh, by the way, you are partially responsible because you knowingly reduced one of your senses that would have helped you avoid being hit. Forget the code, by purposely compromising your hearing while you were riding, you put yourself in greater danger. You are now partially at fault regardless of what "the code" says.

Let's take it a step further. You're really angry about the accident and you sue the skier. Boy, are you going to love being cross-examined when opposing counsel learns that you were listening to music when you got hit and that you didn't hear the warnings from the skier because you were listening to tunes.

Guess what? You can cite "the code" all day and all night in court, the judge/jury will find you partially at fault and reduce any potential awards accordingly (if you get any award at all -- some juries might equate your wearing headphones with talking on the cell phone while driving and award you nothing).

So, you proved your point. It was the skier's responsibility to yield, so you felt it was your right to crank your tunes because it was their job not to hit you. Enjoy the broken arm and the reduced/zero damages.

:lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Whatever guy... that point was already made, by myself and several others. I guess you can stay home and ride your Wii if you don't like it.

I'll ride, WITH tunes if I want. As loud as I want. I rode all day Sunday and never bothered to take them out of my pocket

Guess the folks I was riding with were entertainment enough, that day.

[johnasmo]

Skull Candy Tune-ups II. Speakers are built into the helmet ear pads. It lets me know when my wife is calling my cell phone, and provides background music from an mp3 player if I'm so inclined that day, which is not everyday, but some days. What it doesn't do is block my ears like ear buds or headphones.

It's your responsibility to still hear what's going on around you unless you are deaf and wearing indication of that. If you have to adjust the volume at the top of the run, and turn it down when you get on the chair with your friends, you're playing it too frickin' loud! If I can hear your tunes on the chairlift, you're playing it too frickin' loud! Treat it like elevator music for the chair lift ride, not a blasting soundtrack for extreme riding. I leave my volume set so I can still have a conversation on the chairlift and I don't care that the wind drowns it out during my runs. When a skier says, "on your left," which is seldom, but sometimes (more often "IeeEEiEee"), I do hear them. I don't need additional entertainment during runs, but I do like a little background soundtrack for the spaces between runs.

So music is fine and legal while riding, just like listening to the radio while driving a car. But give it the passenger test. If you can't get on the lift and have a conversation with a stranger just like they were a passenger in your car without turning down you music, then you're playing it too loud.

[ak_rider]

just as you can hear your own edges, you can hear other rider's edges.

QUOTE]

yes, i know i can hear other people's edges, but just because they're scraping along and i can hear it it doesn't mean they're about to hit me. and from my experience on the mtn, when people do yell something before hitting you, it's usually too late and just serves to make you tense up before impact.

really, if you want "every advantage" on the slopes, not only should you not listen to music but i'm thinking you should also get some of those little rearview mirrors to put on your helmet so you can watch what everyone does uphill from you, to make sure nobody hits you. bottom line, listening to music or not does not have an impact on whether or not someone else is going to hit you. and it definately does not have on impact on whether or not i run into someone else, my eyes are for that, which is why i don't ride blindfolded....much:D

[philw]

While that statement adheres to "the code" it ignores reality. {...} The skier yells out a warning. If you heard the warning, you would not have been hit. But, you don't hear the warning because you are listening to tunes. The skier slams into you and you suffer a broken arm.

Or maybe you are not able to speak the language of the incoming skier, or you confuse left and right, or you stop when you should keep going, or you're hard of hearing, or you're wearing a helmet, or you're unable to do whatever the incoming rider wants you do to .. ...

This is manifest fantasy. You're twisting and turning with your arguments, but you just can't make them work. Isn't there a separate forum for trolls here?

[queequeg]

Or maybe you are not able to speak the language of the incoming skier, or you confuse left and right, or you stop when you should keep going, or you're hard of hearing, or you're wearing a helmet, or you're unable to do whatever the incoming rider wants you do to .. ...

This is manifest fantasy. You're twisting and turning with your arguments, but you just can't make them work. Isn't there a separate forum for trolls here?

Seriously. Supposing you hear edges scraping or "look out!" from behind because some out of control douchebag doesn't know better than to keep his distance ... in order for that "warning" to be useful you would have to:

1) Hear him shouting over your edges/wind/through your helmet, even if you do not have music on this is *extremely* unlikely.

2) In the unlikely event that you *DO* hear him, it is probably because he is so close to you that he is pretty much a second away from slamming you and closing fast. This leaves you having to:

a) Turn around and see where he is coming from.

b) Return to your correct body positioning.

c) Change your line fast enough to prevent getting hit from behind (hint: this is extremely unlikely because if the guy is going to hit you from behind he is moving faster than you are).

The reality is that *none* of that stuff is going to happen in this situation. What is going to happen (whether you can hear him or not) is you are going to get hit from behind, and you are going to get hit from behind because the douchebag running into you is an inconsiderate prick who doesn't know (or refuses to heed) the rules of the mountain. If you are unfortunate enough to turn to look at the right moment, you might just get slammed in the face rather than the back of the helmet, with your spine all twisted up ... possibly making any resulting trauma even worse than it needs to be.

Maybe the guy has the presence of mind to shout "turn left" or "turn right" ... but personally, I've never ever seen some out of control meat rocket have the presence of mind to shout such a useful warning, and even so - that doesn't mean it will give the innocent person s/he is about to slam into adequate time to adjust their line, if they hear the warning at all.

In most cases, the victim just freezes up.

Headphones are not the problem. People who don't keep their distance and ski/ride out of control are the problem.

As an aside: It seems a lot of people think shouting "watch out!" in a pending ski-collision is much like honking your horn in an imminent auto collision. In some ways it is: if you rear end someone it's your fault whether you honked or not, but that's where the differences end. In other ways it's not: in an automobile, the guy in front of you has an accelerator pedal that he can use to speed up and open the space between you and him; on the mountain, all we have is the constant of gravity. In a car the guy in front of you has mirrors so he doesn't have to turn his head to see you, on the mountain we do not. And of course, it takes a lot less skill to control a car at 65mph than it is to snowboard at 25mph.

[carvedog]

QUOTE]

, which is why i don't ride blindfolded....much:D

I laughed.

And Snowriter - this is a headphones thread. So now we know how you feel, but seriously no need for trolling.

That would be like me posting up in Orrecchios threads about how cool park monkeys are? just doesn't make sense.

So agreee to disagree. You will change no ones mind here. Especially with the flawed logic that someone yelling will give me time to move out of there way???????

If there is time for me to hear them and move, that is not the person I am worried about. They are moving much too slow to damage me.

[Snowman]

Riding with tunes rules. Helps me get my swerve on and block out the distracting noises behind me which often distracts me from focusing on what is going on in front of me at 50mph. Now, when I am maching on my 197 Burner I do shoulder checks and point directly to the offending skidders to get their attention. Rule #2, down hill person has the right of way its your obligation to avoid them. I know it doesnt always work that way but that is the rule. Also, the built in ear flap speakers let through more than enough of the sounds of the things going on around you that your situational awareness is not comprimised. Riding with tunes makes my day.

[b0ardski]

From the schwietzer mountain blog, well put Tara.

I squeezed in a few solitary runs this morning on Schweitzer’s backside. There’s something utterly tranquil about solo powder laps with Chair 6 (aka Snowghost) as your main mode of up hill transportation. After setting my Ipod to shuffle through a current, favorite album and popping in earbud 2 of 2 as to undergo $7.99 worth of surround sound, something peculiar happened. I swiftly made a transition from “routine ride break” to some sort of bizarrely surreal twilight zone-esque mini music video as everything seemed perfectly in sync (not *NSync) with my musical selection. Somewhat reminiscent of Pink Floyd’s infamous Dark Side of The Moon/Wizard of Oz combo referred to as “The Dark Side of Oz”, this particular CD contorted to my surroundings and oddly worked in instances that were otherwise unlikely. The flakes spitting from the sky did so rhythmically while simultaneously the chairs swung to the somewhat leisurely beat of track 06. At one point the lift paused momentarily and upon its resumption (mid forward momentum gain) the music’s pace, likewise, quickened. The music shifted in a synchronous manner alongside the swaying, snow-covered tree branches suchlike it does with the wave of a conductor’s baton. *back and forth, up and down, side to side* As my chair approached the summit and the elements turned slightly more severe, my “soundtrack” switched tracks accordingly to one of the artist’s more intense or rather explosive songs. As I relished in some of the day’s best snow in Wayne’s Woods, a mellow, comforting track accompanied my unaccompanied turns from top to bottom. A fascinating phenomenon as I am certain there was plenty of action transpiring around me that was off key, but due to subconscious observing (I can only assume) everything flowed as a single, fluid entity. There’s something to be said for great friends on powder days, but likewise there is value in dropping in solo as it’s amazing where one’s mind wanders to amidst the 13 minutes of Snowghost solitude.

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[Arclite]

I'm sorry, headphones have no place at a ski area. Without a sense of hearing you are a hazard on the trail. At least the dolts that ride with earbubs you can see the wires to their ears and know to stay clear of them. But wireless bluetooth ons that can hide under a helmet and hood are just a bad thing.

I listen to my iPod everyday I'm on the slopes. It doesn't matter what volume, I can't hear anything except my board on the snow...

Its more of a...chair lift entertainment feature..

[Sooperburd]

Hey queequeg,

I see you're using the Shure PTH module. I've got one, too. It's a sweet little device.

For those wondering, the PTH (stands for "Push To Hear") is a little headphone add-on that lets you select between two audio sources: Your iPod, and an external microphone.

Essentially, you can have in-ear monitors (IEMs) that absolutely block out wind noise and the outside world, but flip the switch and you can hear everything through your microphone (and the iPod music still plays faintly in the background). It lets you have conversations on the lift and in liftlines, but still have the incredible fidelity of high-end IEMs.

I have an audio setup wired into my jacket. I'll take photos tonight and post.

[queequeg]

Retail this is a rip-off, but it is great for $20-$30. The monster iezclick for ipods or iphones. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-iEZClick-Remote-Control-Black/dp/B000HVHGI6

I rode caked in powder at Mt Hood today http://www.skihood.com/mountain/conditions/default.aspx and this remote never had any problem with the wet. I just sling it over my arm and it worked great.

I went through two of those, they do not perform well IMO. They perform poorly in cold weather. I just use the Gen 1 ipod shuffle, clipped to the bottom of my coat. Easy.

Hey queequeg,

I see you're using the Shure PTH module. I've got one, too. It's a sweet little device.

For those wondering, the PTH (stands for "Push To Hear") is a little headphone add-on that lets you select between two audio sources: Your iPod, and an external microphone.

Essentially, you can have in-ear monitors (IEMs) that absolutely block out wind noise and the outside world, but flip the switch and you can hear everything through your microphone (and the iPod music still plays faintly in the background). It lets you have conversations on the lift and in liftlines, but still have the incredible fidelity of high-end IEMs.

I have an audio setup wired into my jacket. I'll take photos tonight and post.

I used it for awhile, and although it "sort of" worked I got rid of it because it only seemed to amplify the sound of wind and other ambient outdoor noise, not people speaking. Actually made listening to people more difficult.

[Sooperburd]

I used it for awhile, and although it "sort of" worked I got rid of it because it only seemed to amplify the sound of wind and other ambient outdoor noise, not people speaking. Actually made listening to people more difficult.

Were you using it with IEMs with lots of outside world attenuation? I found that the microphone had to be placed inside a pocket, but not too far inside my pocket. Wind is not really an issue because the mic is beneath 1 layer of Gore-Tex. I rigged up an elastic retainer that holds the microphone at exactly the right orientation and position in my pocket.

Couple the right location with the right volume level and I find that I get super-hearing. I can hear things from the lift that others can't, like weird bits of conversation between people way down on the slopes.

It's like that late night infomercial product. what was it called?

OOhhh, Whisper 2000!

[Sooperburd]

My wired remote (that can be purchased

HERE) is an excellent iPod control solution. Its cable is long enough that you can plug it into your iPod (which resides safely in an inside pocket of your jacket) and hold the remote in your hand inside your mitten. The cable runs comfortably through the arm of the jacket.

It's cheap enough that you can buy a few and replace them every couple of years. I used my first one 3 years before a wire broke and I decided to replace it. Not too shabby for a piece of electronic equipment in a really harsh environment.

Because I am an endless tinkerer, I lengthened the cable so I could keep it inside the audio pocket of my jacket, and still keep the remote in my right hand.

In addition to the remote, I re-wired the Shure PTH so that its switch is located on the iPod's remote. Yes, there were 12 wires to run, but I'm an electrical engineer who can solder with a microscope, so it's actually not that bad. :o Here's a couple of close-ups of the remote now that it includes the PTH switch:

The switch is essentially potted in epoxy to keep everything nice and durable. The PTH switch allows me to switch the audio sources between the iPod and the microphone located on the jacket here:

On the inside of the jacket, you can see that there's not much clutter. The iPod and body of the PTH (which doesn't contain the switch anymore, but does contain the circuit board and battery) fit in the audio pocket, while the wires to the remote, headphones, and microphone run out the hole in the top of the pocket:

Finally, here's a closeup of how the microphone comes out of the audio pocket and quickly goes through my custom hole in the jacket, leading into one of the outside pockets. Sliding the mic through the hole, into the pocket-side of the cinch, and tightening the cinch locks the mic in place.

So there you have it. I get the best of all worlds: Shure SE530 IEMs and their unparalleled isolation and sound quality, full control over the iPod in the palm of my hand at all times, and the ability to switch to microphone mode to hear just fine.

I never said it was simple, but it is incredibly reliable. Also, it's minimally intrusive in that the only constant reminder that it's in my jacket is the remote in my hand.

[carvedog]

Yes, there were 12 wires to run, but I'm an electrical engineer who can solder with a microscope, so it's actually not that bad. .

Wow, I thought how over the top, but if it works - awesome. Then I read the bit about elec. engineer and it makes more sense - still awesome.

On a completely OT note -

I have the JBL creature system for my computer. It has the little touch controls on one of the tweeters for volume. I touched it one day and had a big static shock and now I have no volume control.

These are not mechanical volume controls ( ie they don't work when I have white gloves on - it's an art thing not a Michael Jackson thing ) so it must be some kind of resistor or something that's blown. Any chance of a normal hack mechanic with a soldering iron figuring this out and replacing the right piece or should I start over.

Thx in advance.