Corey Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I had a frustrating day yesterday. My local ski area has narrow runs, iffy snow conditions, and questionable grooming. Tack on nothing steeper than a blue run and I question why I even go some days. When everything lines up right it can be quite fun even on something like my F2 RS 183 on the one run that's about 4 groomer passes wide, but on a bad day it's like a skating rink. I spent yesterday on a F2 SL 163 doing small/slow carves/slides through the icy sections and playing in a section about 1.5 groomer passes wide of good snow, it was about 250' long. I rutted up that section so bad that no one else even went on it as the day progressed! ;) But the sections leading up to and after this were horrible, you could see the groomer tracks in the yellow ice. There were at least 5 people (only ~100 paying customers - it's a small hill!) that got treated by ski patrol for simply falling on the ice. Lots of injured wrists and one particularly nasty faceplant. :( I want something that can go slowly and turn tight radius turns on ice. But it would be very nice if it also could handle a bit of extra speed when conditions are nice. Is the legendary Madd 158 the board for this? Or would a metal Coiler built specifically for this be better/equivalent? They seem to be close to the same price... I rode a Madd 158 metal at SES last year that felt great, but it was in near hero snow so I don't think it was a representative test. Any opinions/suggestions? Other than "move to the mountains." :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 but I'm liking my stubby right now, mine have a tighter scr than the others 11 instead of 14 or whatever. most boards are more forgiving than the 158 but the metal boards are super forgiving compared to that thing. different animals. my next carver will probably be a coiler SL with a hangl or VIST plate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Corey you 1st need to make a decision of you are going Metal or Glass. Bruce can build you an amazing short board that will rip on narrow icey slopes. Madd's 158 would be a perfect tool for that if you want to go glass. Eitherway you will not be disappointed with either board. Yeah, riding a short Madd in hero snow will not give an idea on how they will perform on ice. It will perform trust. Stay way from the Madd titanal boards, they were proto's and still have a long way to go and don't have the typical metal ride qualities you would expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Stay way from the Madd titanal boards, they were proto's and still have a long way to go and don't have the typical metal ride qualities you would expect. Geoff, can you expand on this statement? I am quite happy with my metal Madd 170. Sure, its a very different ride from a Stubby, but I found it to be a much quieter ride through chop, while maintaining the liveliness expected from Madd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 By the way, my vote goes for the Madd 158. The stubby does work quite well on ice, but the Madd just eats it up and asks for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Geoff, can you expand on this statement? I am quite happy with my metal Madd 170. Sure, its a very different ride from a Stubby, but I found it to be a much quieter ride through chop, while maintaining the liveliness expected from Madd. I've only been on the 58 titanal to be more specific. Agree it is a totally different ride than Schtubby and that is not negative at all. The 58 TI performed well, I just have some longterm ownership concerns with the design. The titanal doesn't go all the way through the board, has only one layer and I'm concerned about fractures where the TI stops. If you specifically compare the 58 TI vs. the 58 glass ,I'd say the glass is a better board. The Madd TI's are not bad boards at all but if you are thinking about buying one in hopes of getting a board that has a "metal feel" to it IMHO you will not get that. The TI Madds ride more like a glass boards and have a tons of pop. I just prefer the glass Madds over the TI ones. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Im interested also in the answer to this. Wondering if a carver with "Magnetraction" would be of any use in design with a wavy radial edge is of any benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I've got to ride more metal boards. I should be enjoying a demo about this time next week at SES. :D :D I can hardly wait! My metal test rides have been limited to the Madd 158 (holy camber batman!) and a Prior WCR (felt completely numb to me). I need to sample more boards. Thus far I've enjoyed boards like race cars - rewarding if you use proper technique and punishing if you make a mistake. You learn quick with this kind of equipment! But I'm mellowing in that view after a few brutal ice days... In the meantime, I put my name in the list of people wanting Big Canucks (was nekdut's) Madd 158 in the classifieds. These don't come up very often so I figured I should jump on the opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 My $0.02... I have a well-used original Madd 158 and it's great for keeping speed down on the hard stuff. I've ridden three other 158's as well, and I didn't like any of them as much as this well-used original. The first one I rode was an 06/07 demo at SES '06; it was a good deck, just not as grippy as the original that I have now. The second was one of the camouflage series, from around 2003. In retrospect something felt a bit off to me, like it the tail wasn't engaging at all. The third was one of the metal prototypes. Agreed, holy camber Batman! Too much camber and pop IMHO, I like a board that behaves a little better, and it was no grippier than the original. If and when I kill the original Madd and want a replacement, my first call will be to Bruce, as I have no doubt he can whip up something that works as well if not better in similar conditions. In fact the AM 176 that I already own is every bit as good at keeping speed under control, and certainly grippier. However it's length and sidecut imply a slower turn tempo and bigger turns unless I am really looking to get a workout. And of course the feel is different, something tells me a Coiler with a similar length and turn shape to the Madd would prefer to be ridden more centered, on the original Madd it feels like I have to ride only the front half of the board to get it to lock in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Agreed, holy camber Batman! Too much camber and pop IMHO. Agreed, the TI's have to much camber If and when I kill the original Madd and want a replacement, my first call will be to Bruce, as I have no doubt he can whip up something that works as well if not better in similar conditions. I'd love to get a run on an orig 58, the curiosity is killing me. Agree BV will be able to make a fine replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hmm, a custom Coiler with a magna-traction type of edge for the first half/third/whatever of the running surface to get the groove started in the ice... That sounds fun too! I don't want to be the first person to try it though. ;) It's funny that it's not that much extra money for me to buy a custom Coiler than it is to get a used Madd once I factor in duty/taxes/shipping from the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I want something that can go slowly and turn tight radius turns on ice. But it would be very nice if it also could handle a bit of extra speed when conditions are nice. Is the legendary Madd 158 the board for this? Or would a metal Coiler built specifically for this be better/equivalent? They seem to be close to the same price... I rode a Madd 158 metal at SES last year that felt great, but it was in near hero snow so I don't think it was a representative test. I rode an original Madd 158 and, so far, it is the gold standard to which I will measure all other boards as far as the fun factor goes. For me, it was not a board to be lazy on, I felt I needed to be on the gas at all times - which for me is good. Whatever I put into the board, it gave back. Ice? Pretend it's not even there and rip as hard as you want to. I was actually looking for ice by the end of the day. I have never ridden a Coiler (your other mention) but they obviously have a great reputation. That's my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The 158 is a good way not to get hurt on an icy day. I have 2 originals..and the original 158 has more edge hold than the newer 158's and newer 170's. I have looked for trails that were too narrow and steep for the 158. Gandalf lift at Haystack is a good super narrow one- but still possible to link carves on...Master magician as Magic mountain is another double fall line narrow icy trail... but still carveable. but I think they closed that one. The front four at Stowe are a cake walk for the 158. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotbeans Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I do much of the same riding: narrow trails that are mostly ice, some blue spots. My non-metal coiler 164 works well, especially in the chopped up (rutted, chunks of ice, small chop bumps) stuff. It glides through this w/o issue. Sit back, ride it surf style, stay over the edge and it will do what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks for all the opinions! I think I'm going to talk with Bruce at SES and get on every board in the demo tent. I have looked for trails that were too narrow and steep for the 158. Steep isn't a concern for me. There is exactly one run within a 5-hour drive of home that is something I'd consider steep, and they usually let it go to bumps after Christmas. Bad, irregular, icy bumps. :( Most runs around here are mild blues, after all we ski on the sides of river valleys! The challenge isn't to control your speed but rather to not scrub all your speed in any given turn. I had a hard time at SES last year as I had to learn to finish my turns to keep speeds reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks for all the opinions! I think I'm going to talk with Bruce at SES and get on every board in the demo tent. This is the best way to find the correct board. I new metal stick will ride circles around the Madd. I have ridden them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I haven't ridden a short Coiler, but I can tell you the Madd 158 is a good tool for that job description. I would like to see if a 160 metal board could match the Madd for ice grip and be even easier to ride. I may have one built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Well I can say the madd is a sweet board, but from my experience the coiler free carve is amazing on solid ice, It is a glass board with a 10.5 side cut. so you can make some real tight turns even on a 178, which is what i ride. especially if you ride with high toe and heel lift angles, the board can turn like it's a 9.5 side cut, I learned that 2 weeks ago from messing around with the cateks. My friend alex has a metal and a glass coiler, and he prefers the glass over the metal on the icyer days. also my feeling is a shorter board no matter what is is wont hold the edge as well as a longer board. and turning in tight trails comes down to side cut. (Just my opinion, and not gospel) hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gilmour Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The Madd 158 is a design that is now almost 15 years old. Most of the original boards are 13 years old. There was an even better one- of which about 4 were made that had special carbon top sheets.. I have no idea where those went. There were a few 170's like that... but Anton Pogue smashed his from gates. Given the materials at the time we did pretty well with it. The new bases are not as nice as the old ones. That speckled base was great for both durability and speed when prepped with Dominator products. And if you toss metal in... Bordy is absolutely right.. a well designed Metal should obliterate the Madd 158. Just like new technology moves everything forward. I bet Bordy could toss a deck under my feet that could make me hang up the 158.... it just has not happened yet- but likely there are more than 1 deck out there that will do that for me. The 158 is just a known animal with a nice track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 The Madd 158 is a design that is now almost 15 years old.Most of the original boards are 13 years old. There was an even better one- of which about 4 were made that had special carbon top sheets.. I have no idea where those went. There were a few 170's like that... but Anton Pogue smashed his from gates. Given the materials at the time we did pretty well with it. The new bases are not as nice as the old ones. That speckled base was great for both durability and speed when prepped with Dominator products. And if you toss metal in... Bordy is absolutely right.. a well designed Metal should obliterate the Madd 158. Just like new technology moves everything forward. I bet Bordy could toss a deck under my feet that could make me hang up the 158.... it just has not happened yet- but likely there are more than 1 deck out there that will do that for me. The 158 is just a known animal with a nice track record. John, it hit me last weekend that the MADD 158 is about 13 years old. I was on the lift with a bunch of hardbooters I've never met at Stratton last weekend and one guy pointed it out by saying "Someone brought out an old MAAD for the day, cool.". The board still obliterates everything else I've ridden and it is still my go too board. But coming back to the scene here I've seen metal as the new hot thing and am curious to try some of the new tech next season. Still, it will take some doing to get me off my 15 year old 158. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 ur13, how ya been ? haven't seen ya since Da Farm years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 ur13, how ya been ? haven't seen ya since Da Farm years ago Ya, it's been a while. I got burned out on skateboards and snowboards for a long time along with alot of personal drama. Some two years later I'm back to snowboards at least and life is good. How's things with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 despite one mosquito, things are great. off to Brasil in a few weeks. Didn't you score a sponsorship for slalom skating ? Roe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ur13 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 despite one mosquito, things are great. off to Brasil in a few weeks. Didn't you score a sponsorship for slalom skating ? Roe ? After Turner died I stopped going after that stuff, that was also when the courses changed and my interests in the courses changed. I worked with Roe/Insect then skatebuilt after that...but never was "sponsored again"... It's just snowboards for me now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'd bet that a relatively short "turn-schtubby" would be the perfect tool for those conditions. Short enough sidecut radius to make quick tight turns with a short overall length to permit easily throwing it sideways when you need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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