More Safety Measures?

yyzcanuck · November 13, 2008

From this LINK:

PRESS RELEASE

Ski Safety and Medical Experts, Victims of Snow Sport Tragedies and Consumers Shed Light on Questionable Safety Practices of California Ski Resorts

Powerful Assembly Judiciary Committee to Hear their Concerns Today at Capitol Hearing

Last update: 12:25 p.m. EST Nov. 12, 2008

SACRAMENTO, Calif., Nov 12, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --

WHAT:

As the 2008-2009 California ski season opens, safety practices at

California ski resorts are being called into question by a diverse and

powerful group of ski and snowboard safety advocates; some of whom have

been touched by tragedy. Crowded ski slopes, new ski technologies and

limited traffic management contribute to unsafe conditions, while some

skiers and snowboarders travel as fast as cars. If highway safety is a

priority, they wonder how many deaths and injuries must occur before

uniform safety measures are implemented to prevent further tragedy on the

slopes.

WHY:

The basic tenet of ski law is that injuries and death are just an

"inherent risk of the sport," shielding ski resorts from liability

associated with ski and snowboard deaths and injuries regardless of fault.

As a result, there is no accountability and no accurate or reliable data

to objectively guide the public, as well as policymakers, on snow sport

risks.

WHERE:

California State Capitol, Room 437

WHEN:

Wednesday, November 12

10 a.m. - 1 p.m.

WHO:

Dr. Dan Gregorie, Founder, California Ski and Snowboard Safety

Organization (father of 24-year-old Jessica Gregorie who lost her life in

a fall at Alpine Meadows)

Julia Kozberg, sister died from falling into an unprotected tree well at

Heavenly

Matt Calvert, paralyzed in ski accident at Alpine Meadows

Dr. Matthew Foley, American College of Emergency Physicians, SEMA

Emergency Medicine staff physician

Cathy Barankin, California Coalition for Children's Safety and Health

Melissa Hyland, parent advocate for ski and snowboard safety

Dick Penniman, snow sport safety expert

California State Assembly Judiciary Committee

Assemblymember Dave Jones, Chair

Assemblymember Van Tran, Vice Chair

SOURCE California Ski and Snowboard Safety Organization

willywhit · November 13, 2008

what's next ? they'll start banning EXTREME sports in the office ?

Cali SUX (sorry Cali folks):o

Corey · November 13, 2008

Yes, we certainly need more safety regulations to prevent injury and/or death on the slopes. I mean, look at how extensive safety regulations have eliminated injury and/or death on public roads! Oh wait... ;)

We have rules, they're called the skier code. They work well and should be enforced more.

The fact that most North Americans feel that they have no personal accountability for their choices is pathetic.

yyzcanuck · November 13, 2008

I thought I'd select one of the people noted in the article and see what they're about...

From this LINK:

CATHERINE BARANKIN

Catherine has been a registered lobbyist and association manager for over thirty years, having established Sacramento Advocacy in 1977. She has served in a variety of appointed positions, was a delegate to two White House Conferences and was appointed by the Governor to Chair California's celebration of International Youth Year. She is also a guest columnist for the Sacramento Bee.

Recently Catherine was presented with an award for Distinguished Service for outstanding legislative advocacy on behalf of children and youth by the California Department of the Youth Authority. She was also appointed to serve on a legislative Task Force to make recommendations to the Legislature concerning the impact of the state budget on children, and to the Governor's Task Force on Status Offenders.

In addition to providing management services and representing client's interests before the Legislature and state agencies, Catherine also conducts advocacy trainings, and along with her husband, Dr. Joseph Barankin, is the author of "The Advocacy Handbook".

Ms. Barankin's background prior to lobbying included serving as the Director of Public Relations for Southern California College, Assistant Editor of Forum 50 magazine and television news reporting for Channel 50 in Southern California. While attending college, Catherine majored in speech and communications and was awarded the Bell Scroggins Award as the "Most Outstanding Woman Debater in the Nation". Recently she was selected as the commencement speaker and as a recipient of the Alumni Hall of Fame award from her college for her outstanding legislative accomplishments.

Ms. Barankin's volunteer activities include membership on the Sacramento YMCA Board of Directors and on the YMCA Youth and Government Board.

willywhit · November 13, 2008

I'll betcha that Cathy doesn't ski.Maybe we should take a closer look at the kids playing hockey, too, cuz it seems like they check each other way too hard and what if someone gets hurt ? :eek:

IMHO, it's all good until the parents start swinging at each other:rolleyes:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS226876+12-Nov-2008+PRN20081112

:AR15firin Gawd hates California !

Vahur · November 13, 2008

:eek:

Googling "Jessica Gregorie" turns up this link:

http://www.sierrasun.com/article/20071118/NEWS/71118005

Gregorie’s 24-year-old daughter, Jessica, was trudging along the northern ski boundary at Alpine Meadows Ski Resort’s Beaver Bowl, when she dropped her snowboard over the icy precipice.
Her snowboard slid down the mountain toward Granite Chief Wilderness. When the Bay Area woman tried to retrieve it, she slipped and plunged 200 feet down a series of steep embankments.

Hardly skiing accident. And seems like she had no leash? I see no ways how resort management could have avoided such accident short of blocking all the access outside of slope by building walls (well-padded to avoid accidents when people hit them!) around slopes.

And I don't see either, how resort management can avoid death in tree wells. IMO people should take responsibilities for their actions, not expect that someone else takes care of everything.

Gecko · November 13, 2008

that looks like "the stupid shall be punished"

Sinecure · November 13, 2008

I'm all for making our resorts safer. Let's hope that this activity actually accomplishes something along those lines, rather than just adding regulations and costs for the resorts and their guests. Resorts should, and for the most part, do try to make the slopes as safe as possible for guests. But regardless of the lengths they go to, our sport will never be completely safe. Nor will we ever eliminate all injuries.

Here's a more extensive quote from the CSSSO site about this stuff:

Press Release
Contact:

Lisa Yates (916) 552-2650 or Cell: (916) 215-9550

lyates@acsquantum.com

11/12/2008

Ski Safety and Medical Experts, Victims of Snow Sport Tragedies and Consumers Urge California Legislature to Make Ski Resorts Safer

Assembly Judiciary Committee Hears Harrowing Accounts of

Preventable Deaths and Injuries on California Ski Slopes

(Sacramento, CA) – With a new ski season opening, the Assembly Judiciary Committee took up the issue of ski safety in the first step toward potential action to make California ski resorts safer.

“I represent a district filled with families and snow sport enthusiasts who head to the Sierra Nevada slopes each year,” said Dave Jones (D-Sacramento), chair of the Assembly Judiciary Committee. “My first priority is their safety and that of the thousands of other visitors to California ski resorts. We gathered information at the hearing today to assess whether any further action is warranted based on what we learned from all sides.”

A diverse group of ski and snowboard safety advocates, medical experts, snow sport victims and family members testified before the committee led by the California Ski and Snowboard Safety Organization (CSSSO). CSSSO was founded one year ago this month by Dr. Dan Gregorie who lost his only daughter, 24-year-old Jessica Gregorie, in a horrific fall over a cliff at Alpine Meadows where no signs warned of the danger.

“Accidents happen, but when injuries and deaths occur that could potentially be avoided, that’s when the Legislature needs to investigate what can be done,” said Dr. Gregorie. “Skiers and snowboarders now travel as fast as cars. If highway safety is a priority, then why not ski and snowboard safety? One life lost to a preventable accident is one life too many. It’s time something is done to hold ski resorts more accountable and make uniform signage, adequate barriers and proper traffic and speed management part of everyday safety practices.”

Julia Kozberg said she came to the hearing to give her sister a voice and a voice to others who have lost their lives on the ski slopes.

“My sister, Olga, was an average skier, not reckless at all,” stated Kozberg. “Olga was skiing down a hill at Heavenly Ski Resort earlier this year when she picked up a little too much speed because the run proved to be a little slick and steep. She tried to steer off to the side, but where the run split, instead were heaps of snow, trees and boulders that were not visible at all from the run. There were no signs warning her and no netting or padding cordoning off the tree well with rocks. Olga was skiing with a firefighter friend when she fell. Once she arrived at Washoe Medical Center with major brain swelling, doctors saw she had no chance of surviving. With the Legislature’s help, we can save many lives and unnecessary tears in the future.”

The powerful California Medical Association supports CSSSO in its efforts to make safety a higher priority at ski resorts. Currently, injuries and deaths on ski slopes are viewed as just an “inherent risk of the sport” under the basic tenet of ski law. This “inherent risk doctrine” shields ski resorts from liability associated with ski and snowboard deaths and injuries regardless of fault. As a result, there is no accountability and no accurate or reliable data to objectively guide the public, as well as policymakers, on snow sport risks.

A “White Paper” presented to the Judiciary Committee by the SnowSport Safety Foundation, a research arm of CSSSO, revealed some disturbing trends:

The use of warning signs and devices vary from resort to resort and often within the resort itself. There are no written industry standards that give guidance on when and where to use warning signs and devices.

Ski and snowboard equipment manufacturers are continuing to design for higher speeds and more “extreme” jumps and tricks. Little is done at most resorts to control aggressive behavior, especially among youth.

Higher skier and snowboarder speeds, along with better and faster lifts, create more congestion on the slopes, resulting in higher incidence of collisions. Proactive traffic management and patrolling often are overlooked.

With respect to safety practices, resorts claim they develop individual safety plans and promote “safety as a priority;” however, resort guidelines for safety typically are touted as the Skier’s code of responsibility.” Actual safety and accident prevention plans are not posted and are very difficult for the public to obtain.

These inconsistent patterns of safety have raised red flags among many consumer and safety advocates, particularly groups protecting the most vulnerable patrons on the slopes.

“Children should be safeguarded no matter where they are, and we make it our mission to ensure they are protected and not at risk of injury or death in any number of circumstances,” said Cathy Barankin, California Coalition for Children’s Safety and Health. “We advocated for bicycle helmet safety, child passenger seats and other causes that have saved lives. Skiing and snowboarding are no different. If there is something more that can be done, we want to work with ski resorts in a cooperative manner in making safety improvements now before another child or another family member is killed unnecessarily.”

###

The California Ski and Snowboard Organization (CSSSO) is a non-profit California corporation based in San Francisco. The CSSSO promotes and supports safety improvements in California skiing, snowboarding and recreational snow sports and serves as an independent, factual public resource regarding the safety of California ski resorts.

I sort of take issue with some of this:

"Dr. Dan Gregorie who lost his only daughter, 24-year-old Jessica Gregorie, in a horrific fall over a cliff at Alpine Meadows where no signs warned of the danger."

The use of warning signs and devices vary from resort to resort and often within the resort itself.

Actual safety and accident prevention plans are not posted and are very difficult for the public to obtain.

As I understand it, she fell when she went to chase the snowboard she'd just dropped while hiking outside the resort boundary. That means she crossed the well marked boundary line (this is legal at Alpine - they have a "soft" boundary policy that is described very clearly in detailed documentation available at the bottom of every lift that serves terrain where you could cross the boundary - they put it in boxes in the lift lines in the same place you can pick up trail maps - and they stock the boxes every day).

She slid over a large cliff and I don't know if its well marked. I don't know because I would never ever go down there. Its a no-exit, 3 hour hike out section of the backcountry that you can access off the back of Alpine Meadows. I know she wasn't intending to go down there, and I can understand her desire to go after her lost board, but I don't agree that the area wasn't marked as OB, nor that the policies and potential dangers aren't communicated well (there's way too much info to post on signs, that's why they have the printed policy and warnings available).

Should hazard marking and other safety policies be identical in every resort? I really don't think so. Each resort, and its hazards, are unique. I think it would be great if there were some guidelines and recommended ways to mark, secure and warn about hazards. Perhaps some consistency like we sort of have for highway road hazard and safety signs. But mandating total uniformity seems impossible. If we're going to do that, does it mean we'll also have a consistent "green/blue/black" designation system for run difficulty that will be the same from one resort to another? Would that even make sense?

Perhaps more helpful would be mandatory ski safety lessons for all beginner skiers and boarders. Loon mountain once mandated that all new boarders pass a proficiency test before being allowed on the hill. They quickly realized how dumb that idea was (and how risky since they were essentially "certifying" that licensed riders were "safe" and thereby the mountain could be seen as assuming some of the risk if the "safe" rider hurt someone). But perhaps if done correctly, it could work. Perhaps the state wants to take on licensing skiers. You have to pass a written test on ski courtesy and safety before you are allowed on the hill? If they want to equate this to road safety, that seems like a logical next step.

“My sister, Olga, was an average skier, not reckless at all,” stated Kozberg. “Olga was skiing down a hill at Heavenly Ski Resort earlier this year when she picked up a little too much speed because the run proved to be a little slick and steep. She tried to steer off to the side, but where the run split, instead were heaps of snow, trees and boulders that were not visible at all from the run. There were no signs warning her and no netting or padding cordoning off the tree well with rocks.

So if I read this right she's saying her sister was not a very good skier, got in over her head, lost control and crashed into some stuff that was OFF the trail. It sounds like a total tragedy, but is it reasonable, and do we want to require the mountain to mark, pad and secure every possible hazard on the sides of their trails?

Just sayin...

AckermanAlpineAffinity · November 13, 2008

This seems like more lawyer and politician bull**** to me...

Plus a bunch of unfortunate families whom have suffered loss which though unfortunate should not snowball out of control into more government interference which can only make it more difficult for Ski Areas to stay in business...

Why should a incidents involving the unskilled ruin it for all the rest of us?

I flat lined and was fight for lifed after hitting a lift tower in a high speed fall last march... lift towers should be elimintated right???

Bull****!!!

I thank god that in Colorado the ski areas have better lawyers and lobbyists than sour-grapes consumer safety groups have. But seems like CA more than anywhere else in the west is run by lawyersm.

Thank god for the Colorado Skier Safety Act!!!

This document allready holds operators to treat the customers safety to the highest regard. But requires participants to accept responsibility for their own safety on the slopes.

The last thing our industry needs is another in road for the lawsuits.

Jack M · November 13, 2008

anyone who thinks they can eliminate danger or guarantee safety on ski slopes is a moron.

AckermanAlpineAffinity · November 13, 2008

i second that jack!!!

the whole world needs to be bubble wrapped if we are to keep all the unskilled out of danger...

bobdea · November 14, 2008

OMFG

the wording of that document says it all, "un-protected tree well"

WTF?

californians are dumb like people everywhere else but honestly, where else would people even consider "protecting" a tree well.

Steph · November 14, 2008

Hence the copy printed on the back of every lift ticket EVERYWHERE:

SKI/SNOWBOARD AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!

As long as I've been skiing/riding the responsibilities codes have been printed on the back of every lift ticket I've ever obtained. People now are so ready to place blame on anyone other than themselves, when they make mistakes. Come on people. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop placing blame on others. Remember that we are all out there to have fun, but we are doing so at our own risk.

tex1230 · November 14, 2008

What about the tree wells? Something must be done to protect them!

KingCrimson · November 14, 2008

Cali SUX

Yeah.

Gecko · November 14, 2008

The current Ski Code is more than satisfactory when people abide by it.

but in legislate common sense Kalifornia?

willywhit · November 14, 2008

Yeah.

my bad.

Cali Rawks !

shoot that dang thang !

cb0y1 · November 14, 2008

Yes lets make all the ski hills look like bumper bowl, then we can play football while boarding and not kill ourselves crashing into trees. Well at least one side of Heavenly will still be fun. :smashfrea If they do that you will see more accidents because kids will feel more indistuctable and go even faster. Oh I got an idea, lets ban ski poles, they get dropped from lifts regularly and leave really nasty puncture wounds when kids are in race tucks.(hopefully the CSSSO won't see this, they may make it the law)

KingCrimson · November 15, 2008

Cali Rawks

No. Not that this thread needs any controversy, but we passed yes on 8? Throw me a friggin bone here.

willywhit · November 15, 2008

No. Not that this thread needs any controversy, but we passed yes on 8? Throw me a friggin bone here.

here's yer bone

I really enjoyed Cali back in 1979, at 14, being a skate rat,but after that....all set with Cali, thanks. :nono:

dingbat · November 26, 2008

what's next ? they'll start banning EXTREME sports in the office ?
Cali SUX (sorry Cali folks):o

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That looks almost as much fun as hangboarding!(and twice as safe) :eplus2: :biggthump

KingCrimson · November 26, 2008

here's yer bone
<object height="344" width="425">

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I really enjoyed Cali back in 1979, at 14, being a skate rat,but after that....all set with Cali, thanks.

<object height="344" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agojxS7a_qQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>

Yeah, I'm still cool and know everything at age 15. Hair is below my shoulderblades now..

If only I could bring the weather elsewhere. Couldn't live in Canada, sorry folks, as great as Canada is, the CBC drives me nuts. It's like there is this understanding that Canada seems insignificant, so they pick up every bit of Canadian relevance and make it THE story A good example was when I was there in July (august? Whenever the Tour de France ended) and Carlos Sastre won, "most importantly, on a Canadian made Cervelo bike"

I mean, really..

Corey · November 26, 2008

If only I could bring the weather elsewhere. Couldn't live in Canada, sorry folks, as great as Canada is, the CBC drives me nuts. It's like there is this understanding that Canada seems insignificant, so they pick up every bit of Canadian relevance and make it THE story A good example was when I was there in July (august? Whenever the Tour de France ended) and Carlos Sastre won, "most importantly, on a Canadian made Cervelo bike"

LOL! Have you ever watched any US TV?

BobD · November 26, 2008

If only I could bring the weather elsewhere. Couldn't live in Canada, sorry folks, as great as Canada is, the CBC drives me nuts. It's like there is this understanding that Canada seems insignificant, so they pick up every bit of Canadian relevance and make it THE story A good example was when I was there in July (august? Whenever the Tour de France ended) and Carlos Sastre won, "most importantly, on a Canadian made Cervelo bike"
I mean, really..

I could understand that remark if you lived in any other country but America. You cannot forget you are in America for two minutes without seeing a flag or something refered as the American this or that. And that's fine, it's the culture, but it seems very strange coming from Europe.

BobD

KingCrimson · November 26, 2008

Err damnit my last sentence didn't find its way in there..

I was gonna say "I mean really..there's so much criticism for Americans being flagwavers, but it's no different in Canada"

Sounds a hell of a lot different the way I had it posted! :lol: I was being ironic, but not THAT ironic!

Corey- No. Hadn't watched news for a good year until the 4th of this month, haven't since. It's specifically the pettiness of Canada's news sometimes that I find so strange. Then again, having nothing domestic to report about is pretty good these days.

More Safety Measures?

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