Jack M Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Ok, as long as we're blowing off steam around here.... I was going to post this a couple days ago but then thought better of it. But I still can't stop thinking about this. A friend of mine and his wife had a home childbirth with a midwife. I think this is completely self-serving, irresponsible, dangerous, and indicates a serious lack of maturity. But of course I kept my trap shut like a good polite person. Also I could sort of understand why they wanted to do it, because my friend has been in and out of hospitals his whole life and he absolutely hates them and doctors. Not that that really matters, ultimately. So the baby boy was born the other day and lo and behold, he came down with an infection - Meningitis. I have to assume the cause was either un-sterile conditions during delivery, or the fact that labor was allowed to drag on for forty, yes, 40 hours. I don't know how many hours passed after the water broke, but infection is a major risk if the baby isn't delivered within a few hours of water break. My wife couldn't deliver naturally, so an emergency C-section was ordered 4 hours after water break. Even if I'm wrong about that, the only reason they caught it was dumb luck. The mother noticed the child's breathing was labored, and asked the midwife about that. Midwife said nothing was wrong. But then the mother's placenta wouldn't deliver, so they ended up in the hospital anyway. While in the hospital, they were seeing a lactation consultant and the consultant said "this really isn't my business, but something is wrong here" and advised them to see a doctor. Turns out, had they caught it 6 to 8 hours later, the baby would have been in serious trouble. "Fortunately" the baby "only" needs a 14 day course of IV antibiotics, and had to go under general anesthesia to have a main-line IV surgically installed for this. How ironic - their boycott of hospitals and doctors resulted in a minimum 2 week stay in a hospital and dependence on doctors - 2 weeks of hell for the baby, and who knows what other lasting effects. So there. Just had to get this off my chest. If you are about to become a parent, don't do anything stupid like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Can I have you call my stepdaughter? She has all kinds of assinine ideas like this ^^(not pregnant yet, but they are talking about it) - along with no vaccinations (???) and home schooling (she and her husband graduated high school but have no other education) Apparently, I'm not allowed to inform her that she's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well, assuming she has some redeeming qualities that would cause you to want her to successfully reproduce, you can certainly have her read that. And this... My mom weighed in on my friend's decision to me... she knows more than a few stories of foolish birthing practices gone wrong. Like a friend who tried to have a home birth, and the kid got stuck part way out and died while they were rushing to the hospital. Or the idiots who had an underwater birth in a "birthing tub" and the kid started to try to breath under water. Result = permanent brain damage. That kid is now an adult and lives with his parents, unable to work, unmarried, unloved, a constant reminder of their failed attempt at a stupid feel-good hippie birth - a multi-life-ruining lapse of judgement. She had a couple others, but you get the pattern. These people are only thinking of themselves and not the safety of their babies when considering these cockamamie ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Having been through one miscarriage, one emergency c-section and a v-bac (vaginal birth after c-section) with my ex-wife, I can only concur with Jack. Giving birth outside a hospital by choice = whack! Hell, I wouldn't do it outside of a hospital that focuses on childbirth. I have a friend who gave birth at the hospital in Truckee. Now this is an awesome hospital if you get hurt on the mountain - they see more broken limbs, torn knees, etc., in a week than most hospitals probably see in 6 months. But his baby had some problems eating in the first few days. Had they been at a decent hospital the nurses probably wouldn't have assured the mom that this was OK and "normal". Kid ended up rushed to hospital in Reno and probably suffered some brain damage. Shame. And if you are going to the hospital, yet think you don't want anesthesia (you are nuts, but that's your prerogative) - at least sign the waivers when you check in so that they can give you a spinal when you've been in labor for xx hours and they determine you need an emergency c-section. Otherwise you are going to have to sign all that paperwork while you are in agony and the doctors are standing around waiting to cut you open. You can sign the paperwork when you first get there and still decline anesthesia. IMO, drugs were invented for a reason - why not avail yourself of all the advantages out there. Sorry about your friend's baby, but it sounds like it turned out OK in the end. Tex, other than a few elite level athletes, I've never met a home-schooled kid who was in any way normal. Not that normal is necessarily good, but I think life is going to be pretty tough for the home schooled kids I've met. I absolutely blame the parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Sorry about your friend's baby, but it sounds like it turned out OK in the end. They're still in the hospital on the antibiotics, so it's not over yet. But yes, it looks like they dodged a bullet, if you can call it that. Tex, other than a few elite level athletes, I've never met a home-schooled kid who was in any way normal. Not that normal is necessarily good, but I think life is going to be pretty tough for the home schooled kids I've met. I absolutely blame the parents. I've only ever met 2 home-schooled kids - both were very smart but socially inept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 /rant on Good call, Jack. For some reason people persist in thinking that giving birth is something that humans have been doing forever, and it's nothing to worry about. There's plenty to worry about. So many things can go wrong for both mother and baby, women still die in childbirth in Western hospitals every day, and I agree with you that home birthers need a smack with a clue bat. Be in the hospital with the professionals, and do your kid a favour, even if you don't care about yourself. God knows they kick you out after half a day now anyway, it's not like you'll be in there long. And Tex, don't get me started on the whole no vaccination thing. Someone needs to point out to these people that vaccinations are not about you, they're about the safety of the public at large. It's not a coincidence that we're seeing resurgences of diseases that should have been eradicated forty years ago. The anti vax crowd needs to spend a week looking after a baby with whooping cough, and then tell me that vaccines are a bad idea. I've had measles, mumps, and rubella and I'd consider inflicting them on any child I was charged with taking care of as criminally negligent. /rant off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Re home schooling - there was an article on my CF forum this morning, California has just handed down a court decision that is going to make home schooling illegal unless the parent is a certified teacher. This should be a very interesting battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 home birth, yeah, has some issues but so does a hospital. my neighbors won a law suit because the hospital shot up the woman with the wrong drug while she was in labor and it ended up almost killing her and caused brain damage on the kid. this never would of happened during a home birth for obvious reasons. I also know a woman who's had three of her four kids at home and everything went fine. either way you cut it having kids is ****ing dangerous. No vax, most of the people who preach that are concerned about the mercury in them and some of the vaccinations also are not effective for various reasons so there's no reason to give them(at least that's what these people think). My take on it is that there's enough lack of research to reasonably say that the mercury may not be safe so a alternative should be found, one less thing to worry about and a very large portion of the no vax people would be satisfied. I do have to say that some of their arguments are convincing as far as making a case that there is a problem with them as far as the chemicals that are used as preservatives and solvents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 It''s not the mercury in the vaccines, it's the link to autism most parents are worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Mercury in the preservative (thimerosol) was the main suspect for the link to autism -- nowadays only flu shots contain it. Many good reasons not to vaccinate: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552 http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html http://health.consumercide.com/moskowitz-caseagainstvacc.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Tex, other than a few elite level athletes, I've never met a home-schooled kid who was in any way normal. Not that normal is necessarily good, but I think life is going to be pretty tough for the home schooled kids I've met. I absolutely blame the parents. I have met a few that were normal and even a couple that are very successful but there are others that are not but I guess many kids that are home schooled are rejects of the public and private schools in the first place. Pretty common with borderline functional kids with various flavors of issues to end up home schooled because their parents don't want them in a place like this http://www.ncset.org/publications/essentialtools/dropout/part3.3.08.asp Also, evangelical christians and other types of bible thumpers like to home school too, they don't like science, sex ed and literature taught in schools. with or without public schools if your parents are religious extremists of any type be it christian or muslim or whatever you stand a fair chance of being screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 It''s not the mercury in the vaccines, it's the link to autism most parents are worried about. that's right, from the mercury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 A girl here at work just had a kid at home in a tub. The kid turned out fine luckily. But this chick is insane. Not only did she just have a midwife and all that stuff, but her family was there... And her friends... And friends of the family... I swear, there had to have been 20-30 people in that damn room by the sounds of it. That's effed up! I've seen the videos in health class! I don't need to see that! I don't even want to see it when it's MY OWN kid! I'll stay up by her head and let her squeeze my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Just reading this thread reminds me that having chosen to not have children, I have saved myself an insane amount of hassle, worry, argument and judgement. To all of you who are parents, you're braver and probably better people than me. I can't imagine how you deal with these sorts of decisions on a daily basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 ... these cockamamie ideas. out of 177,374 posts on bol this is the only one with "cockamamie" in it. gold star for Jack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinecure Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 out of 177,374 posts on bol this is the only one with "cockamamie" in it. gold star for Jack! Not any more. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 You can talk all this garbage about people giving birth at home.. But there's something 10 times worse. Any NSP Members/OEC Students or Instructors will know what I'm talking about here..There's a section on delivering a baby on a mountainside! There's some good logic "The baby is due tomorrow, so let's get a good day of skiing in first!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 As I understand it, the thrust of the argument now is that the combination of vaccines given at the same time may be a problem. The rate of autism has risen at the same rate that vaccines have been ever more combined together. This may or may not be the cause, but it wouldn't hurt to research the effects of combinations that otherwise appear to be safe when administered individually and until then administer the vaccines seperately. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Both of mine were born in a hospital, the first with a midwife with doctors at the ready, the second with an OBGYN. the first ended up with an infection the first day we got home, spent the weekend in the hospital, no biggy, it happens. Of the two births I have been involved with in the field, lets just say it aint rocket scientists having kids at home. You would think that when the contractions start they would head to the hospital. Oh no, lets wait till o dark thirty and call 911 so we can stress out the dumb firemen. The kid pops out in about 30 seconds. lets just say the family had too many problems to go into, and procreating was not a healthy life choice for them. The other one was already delivered before we arrived, still attached, The mother did not want to have anything to do with the kid. No complications, but still nasty business none the less. The fact that someone wants to purposely have that mess in their home (sorry folks its gross) is nuts. If I never deliver another kid in the field I will consider my career a success. Only 17 years to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 First off, I would rather be ripping turns like BobD than typing on a computer My bio: I have three kids, 13 boy, 16 boy and 19 girl. All 3 were born at home with the same midwife and me with a catcher's mit. My wife didn't let me catch, so I only got to watch and hold the newborn Come on guys and gals...are all MD's competent? No, so why should all midwives be competent? Pick the best and leave the rest. If you are scared, then check into a hospital, it is that simple. --Hugh's $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Sprinkle some herbs and do some chants, man. Where is the defense of these practices. I would have thought someone (from Boulder maybe) would have come along all zealous and everything. I say Boulder because every year they have an inordinate amount of kids unvaccinated prior to the beginning of the school year. My wife and I never considered anything but a hospital setting, however, she did insist on delivering vaginally ("all natural" is too euphemistic for me - sorry) and without any meds. Crazy woman but she insists she preferred that to the C-section that she had with our second daughter. The amount of blood I witnessed my wife lose the first time was scary and were we not in a hospital I would have been exponentially more nervous than I already was. The concern of the attending doctors was palpable when my wife started to lose blood and had that happened at home, who knows what. Some home schoolers in my neighborhood are the best kids I've ever known. They don't have cell phones affixed to the sides of their heads and they are perfectly well adjusted. Probably comes down to the curriculum and most importantly, the parents. I do wonder about the sciences though and how strong a science beckground can be established at home. Anyway, good thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotts.Scheinman Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 unless you have no other option, have a kid at a hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 About 30% of all women in The Netherlands deliver at home. We score as an average European country, so it sure isn't crazy to do this. In other European countries delivering at home is much more of an exception. http://www.knov.nl/home/_files/pdf/Perinatale%5Fsterfte%5FRIVM%5Foktober%5F2005%2Epdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Home birth Unnecessary risk. Things can and do go wrong. Easier to be at hospital for the peace of mind. Vaccines Lesser the better. Only the ones against deadly or potentially devastating deseas should be taken. By getting vaccinated against every little thing out there we are shooting the human race at the foot - eventually no one will have natural resistance to anything. Home schooling I'm a qualified art teacher and had lectured design at a colege for some time. Worked with countless children as an instructor/coach. Yet, I wouldn't dare to home school my own kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 As I understand it, the thrust of the argument now is that the combination of vaccines given at the same time may be a problem. The rate of autism has risen at the same rate that vaccines have been ever more combined together. This may or may not be the cause, but it wouldn't hurt to research the effects of combinations that otherwise appear to be safe when administered individually and until then administer the vaccines seperately.BobD The rise in incidence of autism has a lot more to do with improved diagnostic techniques and a broadened definition of what is included in the spectrum of autism related disorders. To my knowledge, no study has ever conclusively related vaccines to autism with repeatable results. BlueB - I respect your opinion, but nobody had natural resistence to smallpox or polio, and without vaccines those diseases would still be causing death and damage to untold millions. Is you were to shift your statement to "antibiotics" I would wholehartedly agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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