Is there any other ski area that does not allow carving??

[Fastskiguy]

I'm surprised and not surprised at the same time, the big ruts do trip up novice riders and skiers and could be considered a hazard. Of course they aren't *that* dangerous, like straightlining, out of control riders or skiers. Too bad they could just designate a couple of carving runs, a couple of terrain area (with dangerous steel rails and gap jumps and stuff) and call it good.

[ncermak]

I say we kill the management.

Lets just bring SES there next year. unannounced. Gauranteed coronaries in the front office.

[Speedzilla]

So if you see a patroller on your trail, just stop carving. Slide on by or wait for them to ski down out of view.

If you get approached while not carving (in liftline, standing around, etc), say "that wasn't me. prove it."

If you get caught in the act, and are asked to cut it out, play nice and kill them with kindness until they leave. Then resume.

If you get caught in the act by someone clearly agitated enough to pull your ticket, carve a big gouge into their skis. You're going home anyway, may as well piss them off.

I don't know that mountain at all, but at my mountain most of the good carving trails are black diamonds. I personally could live with being able to only carve on black diamonds. I don't know how they could possibly justify banning expert level activities on expert terrain.

My plan is simpler.....I won't ever be going there.

[Pow]

I like the 99% comment. They have obviously done the homework. It would appear that at least a control of 100 carvers/hardbooters were observed. One of the 100 made deep trenches (ergo 1%) and for that the other 99 are to be banished.

at what confidence interval? was a placebo group involved? i need more data in order to determine whether i should accept or reject H null:smashfrea

[Pow]

ohh and to avoid getting caught... if someone's chasing you just carve back up and theyll never catch you:biggthump

[Pow]

I say we kill the management.

Lets just bring SES there next year. unannounced. Gauranteed coronaries in the front office.

I like this plan:eplus2:

[Scuff]

Thanks for posting Speedy.. This is sad news.

Of all the ski areas in the Twin Cities (MN) area,

Welch Village is (in my opinion) the most scenic, has the most

diverse terrain, the longest runs, often has the fewest people on-hill,

and is the hill of choice for our our annual Minnesota Expression Session.

I doubt there are issues with "Carving Skiers" - They mean "alpine snowboarders."

Perhaps patrollers should perform breathalysers on those who are

claiming injury from any "ruts" in the hill.. I've had a few near-misses with intoxicated skiiers while riding there..

Another issue at hand is whether Welch Village will to allow

us to hold our regional USASA Alpine events there next season...

[BobD]

has set up a camp for displaced carvers in burnsville ;)

Welch grooming sucks anyway

BobD

[trent]

the worst part of all of this, if it's even going to happen, is this place has the best carving runs around here. it's where we've been doing the MES for the past 5 years, and even had a local tv station do a story on carving filmed here at the MES '06. it bothers me that i'm the one who's been organizing these events, know some people in the office by name, and that they haven't talked to me first about any type of banning.

it should also be noted that there are only 3 - 5 of us carvers at the hill at any one time (except for the MES and the 2 days of USASA racing). usually on a weekday, when there are only 50 or so people at the hill. so i really don't see how we're causing all these injuries. i have a feeling, that this one woman who really hates us, has made enough of a stink to cause this to happen. even though her husband is quite talented carving on his skis. i wonder if she'll have to ski alone next year?

guess i'll have to make some calls / trips to welch in the near future, and try to make some sense out of all this.

-trent

[carvedog]

Nasty Gram sent.

Lame, lame, lame.

:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea

[Petrol]

Of all the ski areas in the Twin Cities (MN) area,

Welch Village is (in my opinion) the most scenic, has the most

diverse terrain, the longest runs, often has the fewest people on-hill....

with that type of 'welcoming' attitude, small wonder.

btw, here's the reply I just recieved:

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Yes, it's true.

Welch Village Ski Area, Inc. 26685 County Rd 7 Welch, MN 55089 651.258.4567

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I received an e-mail that looks to be from you saying that, "We will not allow what we call extremely aggressive carving as it does too much damage to the hills and is causing injuries to those who get stuck in the ruts. Ninety-nine % of the people with carving equipment do not cause this damage." <O:p></O:p>

<O:p> </O:p>

It sounds to loony to be true, But I have to ask.<O:p></O:p>

<O:p> </O:p>

[Petrol]

You are missing the point. We are not banning carving snowboards, only the style which goes from edge to edge creating deep divots in the snow.

Welch Village Ski Area, Inc. 26685 County Rd 7 Welch, MN 55089 651.258.4567

Publicity Ploy ?

Notice, there is No Mention of SKIS!!!

[Buell]

the worst part of all of this, if it's even going to happen, is this place has the best carving runs around here. it's where we've been doing the MES for the past 5 years, and even had a local tv station do a story on carving filmed here at the MES '06. it bothers me that i'm the one who's been organizing these events, know some people in the office by name, and that they haven't talked to me first about any type of banning.

it should also be noted that there are only 3 - 5 of us carvers at the hill at any one time (except for the MES and the 2 days of USASA racing). usually on a weekday, when there are only 50 or so people at the hill. so i really don't see how we're causing all these injuries. i have a feeling, that this one woman who really hates us, has made enough of a stink to cause this to happen. even though her husband is quite talented carving on his skis. i wonder if she'll have to ski alone next year?

guess i'll have to make some calls / trips to welch in the near future, and try to make some sense out of all this.

-trent

Sorry to hear about this for you Trent. Sounds like it is time for a sit down meeting with some of the people you know in the office. It is a poorly written notice of a ban so maybe no one thought it through sufficiently and a little pressure will get the threat removed. One percent of the people on the hill with carving equipment? Damage to the hills? Causing injuries to those who get stuck in ruts?

Maybe they already enforce the rules on the books, but it seems to me that there are much more significant safety issues than a carver trench. Straightlining boarders and skiers who do not yield to the downhill rider, out of control riders, jibbers jumping onto the groomers or crossing them perpendicular to the fall line without looking, failure to look uphill and yield when starting downhill, not stopping where one obstructs a trail or cannot be seen from above. The list is pretty long even if I was not a hardbooter.

Maybe, if even actually enacted, their enforcement of aggressive carvers will fall under the same negligence I see at every resort I have been to and it won't be an issue at all.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Buell

[Dan]

Quote:

You are missing the point. We are not banning carving snowboards, only the style which goes from edge to edge creating deep divots in the snow.

Welch Village Ski Area, Inc. 26685 County Rd 7 Welch, MN 55089 651.258.4567

Publicity Ploy ?

Jesus, how about banning the style which goes straight down the hill, knees locked, legs straight, open coat flapping in the wind and showing off the beer belly?

[Guest Tool Can]

If a Session takes place at this location then it might be wise to keep the Nasty Grams out of what looks to be a delicate set of dynamics as is.

Hence no Nasty Grams or Burning Sacs of Poo.

(Not above such acts if things do not work out)

Let's refrain from making this hopefully isolated instance any worse for the local Carver's.

Some one will have to put a professional happy face on and use there best Doctor Phil Mojo to solve this problem with the Mtn Management.

Steve "The Punisher" Prokopiw and many others including myself at OES had a conversation about Carvings percieved impact.

The concerns and reality's of each and everyone's post here seem Valid.

It is just a matter of time.A proactive effort to maintain our presence in good standing will be needed via all of us indivdualy at our local hill to insure that good standing remains solid every where.

Obviously the big concern is the cascading affect of presedence setting policies at one Mt. One MT, One instance, affecting the perseption of many Mts.

[Buell]

If a Session takes place at this location then it might be wise to keep the Nasty Grams out of what looks to be a delicate set of dynamics as is.

Hence no Nasty Grams or Burning Sacs of Poo.

(Not above such acts if things do not work out)

Let's refrain from making this hopefully isolated instance any worse for the local Carver's.

Some one will have to put a professional happy face on and use there best Doctor Phil Mojo to solve this problem with the Mtn Management.

+1 for this idea. Hammering them with negative emails is not going to help the local carvers.

[Speedzilla]

We are not banning carving snowboards, only the style which goes from edge to edge creating deep divots in the snow.

Oh I see, so it's just the snowboards that are being ridden properly. Glad that is cleared up. :rolleyes:

[carvedog]

Obviously the big concern is the cascading affect of presedence setting policies at one Mt. One MT, One instance, affecting the perseption of many Mts.

**** that. This is so ridiculous that I can't even hardly speak or type or whatever the hell I do. My nasty gram was about not coming there and the friends and family that I have in MN that I would encourage not to go there.

When the going gets tough the tough fight back with a good swift kick to the pocketbook.

No offense Tool Can. Easy for us both to sit here from out of state and give advice but this really sucks. Just like a dandelion in a perfect lawn, it must be cut down and eradicated. Like a rusty quarter panel on a '58 TBird cut it out, excise, stop the growth.

Resistance is futile, we will carve you and you will like it.

Ok, I'm done now.

[LeeW]

After reading this post this AM, I went up on the mountain in Vail -- I carve often on my skis. I was thinking "now wait a darn minute. DOESN'T SLED MARK MAKE DEEP TRENCHES TOO?" They should be banning snowmobiles from being used at work place, too. Ive seen too many workers riding all over the place on corduary places on sleds in early AM, including myself (no choice, really).

Thought Id mention this sense of irony.

[pebu]

I'm wondering if one lady bitched and then they said yes, fine we'll put out a notice banning trenching, so then they send out this email to appease the fruitcake, but have no intentions of enforcing it because they know her claim is bupkis.

[Speedzilla]

I'm wondering if one lady bitched and then they said yes, fine we'll put out a notice banning trenching, so then they send out this email to appease the fruitcake, but have no intentions of enforcing it because they know her claim is bupkis.

Just so everyone knows...the e-mail I posted in the first part of this thread was their reply to my question regarding the rumor that they were banning us. Not a blanket e-mail sent out randomly.

[zoom]

Wow. Bummer, Speedzilla.

And +2 for TC's comment.

I am definitely pro-carver, but I've been thinking a lot about "trench complaints" recently. Recently, I heard that one of the mountains I ride had gotten complaints from some... senior skiers. My first response was half "Hahahaha, awesome!" and half "screw 'em!" However, a good carver friend opened my eyes to the other side of the argument.... She said, "I was always taught to respect my elders" and to do what she could to help them.

Her words made me think.... I love carving, and the days with the best conditions for the sport I love (hero groom, moderate temps and wind, sun) are pretty much the only days my older friends (70+) venture to the mountain to ski at all. A lot of the people who have trouble with our ruts are people who don't have the technique or shock absorption they used to have, and many of them take a lot longer to stand up from a fall than they did a few years ago. I admire these people and I hope to join their ranks one day, and I definitely don't want them to have less fun on the few days a year they return to the hill.

Unfortunately, I don't see an easy solution. I just wanted to offer a few thoughts about the other side of the discussion. For my part, I've found that making friends with older folks on the lift, offering a hand here and there, etc. seems to have softened a lot of people to me and my wacky single-plank set-up. I've even been thanked more than once for giving wide berth at slow speed to some older folks resting on the side of the run. Probably won't help much at Speedzilla's resort, but maybe we can make some friends elsewhere.

[Scuff]

Let's refrain from making this hopefully isolated instance any worse for the local Carvers.

Thank you Tool Can and Zoom - well said.

We DO try very hard to promote our sport in a positive light and share

the hill with others..

Some dialogue with the resort has been forwarded to me:

Q. I have been told that Welch Village will "ban" alpine snowboards. Do I understand correctly?

A. No snowboards are being banned, only a certain style of carving.

Q. I am not sure I understand what is meant by "certain style of carving". Can you clarify?

A. Going edge to edge, creating large divots, and going almost horizontally to the fall line. This is a huge liability issue for us.

[Speedzilla]

This is a huge liability issue for us.

[Rob Smith]

qq, I agree totally, the skidders, (boarders & wannabe skiers) are ten fold more annoying and "dangerous"

Allee, I love the female expression "you pussies are whining about ..."

I needed a good laugh today, I wasn't riding.