www.oldsnowboards.com Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Members, those that have helped create BOL , helped shape it, who provide kind, thoughtfull responses to encourage those just starting to carve. Pay attention, BOL is changing. Perhaps you, as I , find this is one of the few or the only forum that has maintained a strong kin-ship. For that past year I have witnessed more and more rude, snide and ill-tempered comments. Let us hope the coming year is a turn around year from this trend. At my first SES two years ago I was so excited to meet many of you, to share the vibe, the passion. I learned so much. I also learned that some of the best carvers (people) seldom or Never post. They were quick to admit, I am a "Lurker", this surprised me. I would encourage those that would like to see BOL maintain it's "Brotherhood" spirit of alpine riders in a way that encourages new riders to speak up and encourages the Journeymen to share their knowledge to speak up. Help to make sure the negative vibe is not welcomed here. Happy New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Posted December 31, 2006 Report Share Posted December 31, 2006 Good Post. I've noticed the trend as well, and...well...I've just kinda shrugged it off. Lets hope that ignoring those that, for lack of a better word, suck, get the idea that nobody cares what they have to say, and they go away. Happy yew near! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Well said Bryan! Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 A-men to that Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Good one, Fella. Happy New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Bryan, In addition to the observations you've made, I've noticed a new crop of screen names coming on board since this past summer. This can only be a good thing to the community. Alas, as with any 'anonymous' name comes an increase in rhetoric and hyperbole. That's a nice way of saying a lot more BS from posters who, if were face-to-face in a bar over beers would be more reticent and less inflammatory. A big thank you to Fin and Michelle for a fine line of products and an online community for how many years? (10+)? I remember back to the good old days on the old forum (some of you didn't know there was an old forum) of CF (Christopher Fox), CMC, and PSR who post(ed) here on this board. Whether you liked them or not, they always added to the community by offering new perspectives and informed opinions. BTW, when is Randy Salzman coming back online? Randy always had a great demeanor and was passionate about riding hardboots. Even if I won every World Cup podium and was the shizz at carving, I'd try and maintain some level of aplomb when posting my opinion here on the forum. But, that's me. Perhaps, this is like what is happening in my hometown with traffic violations: lack of enforcement. When there is no one to write a citation, driver's increase their level of disregard for laws. I know that the moderators here don't want to be seen as 'heavy-handed' but, when a bully shows up in a thread and is allowed to spew venom and is not called on it, that's what you get. You get a forum that lacks focus and decorum. I got to ride yesterday for the first time this season and it felt so good to carve a snowboard again. The level of aggression in my riding had built up because of no snow until now. Most of us carvers are aggressive-types and don't mind showboating in front of a crowd. So, that's what we sometimes get here at BOL. I hope that the new riders who come to this board recognize that personalities are magnified on the web and a keyboard and a few beers make for some temporary-heroes. Share your insights, ask more Questions than making statements, and... ..bottom line is to shut up and ride, carving a snowboard trumps whatever is done here on BOL. Thanks, Fin! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Bingo Mark, I could not agree more. Not being required to post any info has it's trade offs. It is a little like all the tail gators in traffic, they feel isolated and brave. They would not likely push someone in the grocery store check out line? Personalities are always likely to clash, it is the willingness to take the high road that sets people apart. Trading snipes is hardly a good way to build a community. Although I do understand how Drama sells. Be kind, be smart, be a good alpine Brother/Sister. We are a small group with high standards. I would like to see it stay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 I only post if I think I am going to really help someone with something.I sure have learned a lot of useful info on this site and I thank everyone who has helped. Also this site has allowed me to ride with some folks who I would not have met otherwise. You would think that I would know a lot of things about carving since I have been doing it since about 1989 but I am still learning and having fun. I guess you could say that I am learning to be a journeyman carver. My next goal is to learn how to ec carve. I will be getting a Donek ec board soon and will write a reveiw on it. I also will be writing a review on the Dupraz D1 soon as no one has done so yet on this site. Probably because there aren't too many people that own one. I would agree that we need to be positive and not flame people to death - this is suposed to be fun and enjoyable.Happy new year and think snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Good post Bryan. Looking forward to riding with you at some point this winter! Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy T. Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 I too have noticed the change and have just tried to ignore it but I have always felt like BOL was a community of great people, and a place with a lot of great information where we can learn. I hope that does not go away! Thanks for the post Bryan and Happy New Year Everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Thanks Bryan, Happy New Year!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Happy New Year to Bryan and all BOL'ers from northern VT!!! Let's play nice in 2007! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 I know what you mean. I'm not sure what the motivation of one or two of the rude people who came here was; perhaps it's best to resist the temptation to be rude back. I'm not sure what the best approach would be. What we don't want is for Fin to have to moderate this [more than happens already] as that would cost him time and money and probably ultimately result in us losing this place. How about moderators taken from you guys: people with some sense and who have the sport's welfare in mind? Just an idea. Point noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 online community for how many years? (10+)?I remember back to the good old days on the old forum (some of you didn't know there was an old forum)... I think the 'community' was formed in the the fall of 1999 or winter of 2000, but I can't be certain. That's when I first ventured into the 'fray'. My first post on the old forum was not well received. In fact, it turned into a personal attack on me. Oddly enough, it was a flaming thread that had been started by someone else and I simply commented on the fact that this wasn't much of a community! I guess proving the point was the point? I don't think there needs to be a conscious effort to 'Take (the) Bomber Forum Back!!' These flame things come and go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar(angel Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Great thread Bryan, Ralann and I were riding together today (my first time out this season) and the subject came up. I've had a few disagreements with people here in the past, but it never kept me from coming to this site and listening or posting if I thought it was useful. I too have enjoyed carving with people I would never have met if it weren't for this forum, you being one of them. Hopefully I will be able to met and ride with more people this season, and ride more with those that are regulars on our home hill. We are a community wether we like it or not, so we do have to endure from time to time the range of personalities, opinions, and points of view of those that make this wonderful web site up. Tolerance, courtesy, and graciousness are not always present or used here, but those that truly know what this site is all about can see through the layers of b.s. and gleen what truly matters here, sharing something we are all very passionate about. I recently watched "Step into liquid" again, a movie they've been running on HDTV this last month. For those that haven't seen it, I highly recommend it, even if you don't surf. The message the movie conveys applies to us here on Bomber, it's all about the stoke, sharing it, feeling it, and most importantly keeping it alive. Riding is a gift people, don't take it for granted and try to see the good in all of it. Happy New Year to all of you, may the new year be prosperous and happy for you and your families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Dave, The 10+ (years) was a guess at how long BOL has existed as a community. 1999 was about the time I started lurking here and emailing Fin. I had been given a pair of TD1's that had formerly been marketed by Rossignol. No bumpers, no spring-loaded bails, no information. The first time I rode them I swore I'd never hardboot again. Fortunately, I found BOL forum and watched and listened for a while. Taking notes and admiring what everyone on the forum had been accomplishing. I took PSR's (Eric) advice and used rubber-bands to spring load my heel bails on the TD1's. I also bought some purple bumpers and made the jump to lightspeed by simply having the right parts. Without BOL, I'd still be back in the stone age finding boots, boards, and binders. Not to mention learning how to angulate and use proper body stance. I've met and ridden with some very nice people here at BOL and I've learned to stay away from the vermin that provoke the worst in each of us. Happy New Gear! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 What I an say about this issue is that we are a relatively small community (speaking of the active posters) compared to some other sites, so pretty much everyone knows everyone, like in a small town. But what happens (also like in a small town), everyone knows every other persons quirk, wether they are a gear vaccum, post whore, big mouth, whatever (no pun intended, just repeating what has been said. Some will say it to their face, some will say it in their back, some will take it seriously, some won't. It's a little bit like a vicious circle. yes, there could be some more respect and some more sensitivity, but also some lightness about things. I for one will continue to respect everyone, make some informative post, do some constructive (and respectful) criticism, make some jokes (as long as the target knows it and laughs also), and, more importantly, ride my alpine snowboards, which is very important (even though I have not ridden yet this year:(). I wish everyone a happy new year full of snow, be it grommed or powder. Yes, I am PC, but not "so cravenly PC that I wouldn't know a good time if it was sitting on my face"... Anyone know from which movie this is? The first one to find out will get... [wait let me think about it...] An additionnal Happy New Year wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Great post Bryan! I used to post regularly on the old forum with ORCarve. I've always been on the financial fringe of supporting the sport, but worked my butt off trying to promote it in a grass roots style. I have huge respect for what Fin has going on here, along with Jeff, Dave, Billy and Adam with their sites . I got turned off to the forum when there was more discussion about personality then riding (right around the time Curt, Eric et all took off). After a couple of seasons of mostly lurking I'm making an effort to come back into the discussion. We're adults (mostly), and I think we can both act like it and choose to brush off what we don't respond well to . After about 10 years on an alpine board I'm no expert, but I'm happy to help folks who can use it, and know enough to shut my yap and listen when someone with better insight decides to speak up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahcarver Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Mr.E: See, that's what I'm thinking Bryan is getting at. Everyone is welcome here. What the trend has been is to alienate someone because of a lack of information without regard to rider status. As a newbie, if I had asked for help here concerning a specific anomaly in my riding and had a seasoned veteran respond that I had everything I'd ever learned wrong, and that I wasn't riding the best and latest technology and that I'd never amount to anything as a rider, I would have considered finding another place to get information and advice. OTOH, seasoned pros are in the same room as newbies, riders on limited budgets, riders who have access to unlimited funds, and others who are not so humble to listen to good advice from riders with years of experience racing, riding, and perfecting their groove. If I could expand on what (I think) Bryan is asking is that the CC be more cognizant of the varying levels of rider involvement here. Not everyone is going to be on-hill 30 plus days a season and riding the newest techno widget. Also, another underlying concern is growing the community. That's made more difficult by elitist responses to sincere posts by riders who want to learn and grow into better riders and carvers. Sure, the advice is good and warranted at times. But, when the advice promotes a personal agenda versus what would be the most beneficial for each of us in the community, then it becomes detrimental to everyone. If the community can police itself without the moderators having to babysit the forum we all benefit from the freedom of expression and opinions. Otherwise, get used to riding softboots on noodle boards for the rest of your snowboarding career as you watch what could potentially be the final chapter in the demise of alpine snowboarding in North America. People vote with their feet. And, in this case, boots. What's it gonna be? Hard or soft? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard_with_a_Gun Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Hey all and happy new year!! If it makes any difference to any of you to hear what a new person to the forums thinks..... I was drawn like the proverbial moth to the flame to this site for a couple of very simple reasons. The obvious depth of knowledge amongst the people here, and what I believed and STILL believe to be the genuinely friendly nature and willingness to help out a completely ignorant dolt(that would be me) discover a new passion. I have always felt that there is nothing wrong with having a strong opinion about something, nor with two or more people disagreeing about a subject, as long as mutual respect is maintained. Best Wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derf Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 [...]OTOH, seasoned pros are in the same room as newbies, riders on limited budgets, riders who have access to unlimited funds, and others who are not so humble to listen to good advice from riders with years of experience racing, riding, and perfecting their groove. If I could expand on what (I think) Bryan is asking is that the CC be more cognizant of the varying levels of rider involvement here. Not everyone is going to be on-hill 30 plus days a season and riding the newest techno widget. Also, another underlying concern is growing the community. That's made more difficult by elitist responses to sincere posts by riders who want to learn and grow into better riders and carvers. Sure, the advice is good and warranted at times. But, when the advice promotes a personal agenda versus what would be the most beneficial for each of us in the community, then it becomes detrimental to everyone. [...] This is probably one of the most insightful comment I have read here. I am a rider on a limited budget and I ride 5-10 days a year but I only ride hardboots. I try to support and contribute the most that I can to the community, but I can not necessarely buy the latest and greatest board and bindings to support the manufacturers, and some poeple will make you feel bad because of this. (Sorry for the bad phrasing on this, I can't find the right words in English to express my thoughts on the matter.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Many years ago I was a "freshman" on the Sun Valley Ski School. The director was an Austrian, who took teaching skiing seriously. While most of us were obsessed with knowing more about technique than the other guy, this Austrian concerned himself more with how to be a "Professional." He had lots of advice about appearance, etc but he said one thing that really caught my attention. He said, "no ´professional´,no matter if you are a doctor, accountant, lawyer, actor...or ski instructor bad mouths or criticizes others in their field. I don´t want any of you to be bad mouthing any other instructors or ski shops...ever. What would a guest think if he overheard a ski instructor saying that another ski instructor was bad or that some ski shop sucked? I reflects badly on all of us. Don´t do it. A true professional doesn´t need to criticize others to boost himself up." One of the reasons I enthusiastically embraced snowboarding was that as a young sport, there were no rules...goofy, regular, hard boots, soft, air, powder, carving. The measurement for success was based only on how wide your grin was. A true "Professional" understands this. A true professional would say, "I rode like that as I developed my riding. Then I moved on to this. You can try it...enjoy." Oh, and dittos to Utahcarver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 IMHO, the cool people outnumber the jackasses here about 99 to 1 here...It's just that in such an obviously good mix, the few jerks really stand out. I get annoyed as hell once in a while. My experience tells me that even some of these guys who seem like total dicks, are really ok, it's just they get all uppity on the keyboard...and some of the obnoxious newbies/young'ens just think they know it all already. Weren't we all like that once? MOST IMPORTANTLY regardless of what you ride, if your on hardboots, having fun and people see you, it helps the sport. Please don't make us po' folks feel bad about our gear...we're doing the best we can to have a good time. Happy new year all! Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavechaser Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 This is slightly OT - but what I wish is that there wasn't so much of a gulf between softboot and hardboot riders. We are all SNOWBOARDERS. I ride all different types of boards, yet I am referred to around here as a "carver" because I race alpine. I don't like the term "carver" anyway because you can carve perfectly well in softboots too. I also hear other "carvers" put down softboot riders when I'm on the lift with them sometimes. This is ridiculous. I think the perception that you have to be one or the other hurts the hardboot end of things, and I see it sometimes on BOL. I also rode the lift the other day with a good skier who, when we saw a guy carving beautiful backwards turns on his FS skis, said "those guys think they are so cool but they can't carve an icy steep like I can, they are losers." I think he was jealous. I thought it was sooo cool even though I don't wish to do it - the guy was RIPPING! The skier vs. snowboarder thing is still going strong here in Mad River land too. I don't know what it is about the snow sports that makes so many people so narrow-minded. Can you imagine going to the beach and hearing the back-strokers bitching about the breast-strokers or the smimmers whining about the sunbathers? We have so much in this country and there is so much bitching about little things that mean nothing. My signature used to say "Attitude is Everything" (thanks to Bart Vervloet in Bingen, WA) but then I switched it to "Altitude is Everything" just for fun...I think I'll switch it back. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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