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I guess we all should be getting in line for hip replacements....

A lot of pros rock between 22-24. Most pro freestyle riders "duck out"... meaning a positive angle on the front foot (toe closer to the nose) and a negative angle on the back (toe closer to the tail). Using a progressive or alpine stance (positive angles on both bindings) has been said by some riders to cause hip problems.
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doesnt sound absurd. Although duck is just "the standard" now.

anatomically, the majority are duck footed, but with an alpine stance we balance it out with a little splay between stance angles

Ive never had a sore hip, except on icy days from slipping and landing on my left side.

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Directional riding is absolutely going to give you an assymetrical physique.

Think of how you stand on your board when you only ride one way and the muscular and skeletal requirements and adjustments that arise from that. A good way to know you're doing something unbalanced to your body when riding left or right foot forward exclusively, is to think about how your back leg felt after your last pow day. This has to have an overall phisiological effect over time. Moreso if you ride alot.

As proof of this, most of the 3rd generation snowboarders around here, people who grew up snowboarding from a very young age, but before switch riding was anything more than an emergency manouever, are some pretty stiff and twisted late 20s, early 30somethings.

In CASI, we've batted around the idea of setting up all development-age riders dead-equal duck and introducing left and right foot-forward turns to them at the same time. The goal being to create equal proficiency in both directions and hopefully eliminate the "Crooked stick" phenomenon.

We'll see where that goes...

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As proof of this, most of the 3rd generation snowboarders around here, people who grew up snowboarding from a very young age, but before switch riding was anything more than an emergency manouever, are some pretty stiff and twisted late 20s, early 30somethings.

While snowboarding biomechanics may have had some influence, I'd say lifestyle and conditioning are going to play a big factor here too.

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I guess I tend to be surrounded by 100+ day types, who have been at it for years, though I suspect you're right about the "normal" rider who gets out maybe 10 times a season. In that context, there should be no way to blow yourself up... cumulatively, that is.

I still think that teaching someone to ride in both directions at the start could oly help them.

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asymetrical development is normal anyway, this is why some people are goofy and other are regular

a couple people brought up the hip thing years ago because Terje and a couple other guys had hip injuries and suggested it was due to the angles that they ride(could not have anything to do with 20ft airs out a QP :smashfrea ) these same dudes were also pimping the aasi stuff about every one should ride duck no exceptions, the same types were also saying at the time that a twin was the only way to go as far as your board is concerned.

it could be said that riding a wide stance or riding duck causes knee issues in fact many people do say just that

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Directional riding is absolutely going to give you an assymetrical physique.
So are you suggesting we all adopt duck stances and alternate time equally riding switch and normal? Not interested. Plus there's lots of sports with asymmetric development - anything with a swing (golf, baseball, hockey, tennis) probably has the same issues. Should everyone in baseball become switch hitters and pitchers? Maybe all those Olympic fencers should learn to lunge on the other foot?
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So are you suggesting we all adopt duck stances and alternate time equally riding switch and normal? Not interested. Plus there's lots of sports with asymmetric development - anything with a swing (golf, baseball, hockey, tennis) probably has the same issues. Should everyone in baseball become switch hitters and pitchers? Maybe all those Olympic fencers should learn to lunge on the other foot?

Nothing you say here suggests that this is not the case... in fact, you support my argument. My dad is a CPGA professional and has had to change his swing mechanics over the years to compensate for his assymmetry.

The fact that you don't want to ride that way is neither here nor there... it's just personal preference. I like my stance duck (35 and -5) and think it works well. I wouldn't go back to 0 or higher (freeride anyway) and I wouldn't say I have an "awkward" style. It just works in the context of that type of riding, with turning and jumping being equally important.

I rarely use words like "all". This says that what works for one works for everybody. As an instructor I know this isn't the case. I do stand by the belief that kids should be taught to ride in both directions and that it would be more balanced, development-wise, to stand on the board like most stand on the ground... slightly toes out. That being said, I'm the President of CASI and not on the Technical Committee, so what I say about how we teach, now or in the future, doesn't mean s#!t.

The truth is, once you've gone past lessons, you can set up however you want, in whatever way makes you happiest and gives you the type of performance you're looking for.

You may even wind up on a Skwall, duckfooted.

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Your stance may be duck, but it isn't symmetrical either. Do you ride duck in hardboots? If not, why not? What's the difference between hard and soft that drives the duck stance? Not trying to be cute here, I'm interested.

To me there's three components to the stance: width, angle and splay. Your stance angle is 15 degrees, but with 40 degrees of splay. That's a lot of splay, almost like 20 years ago when the old boards forced you to be 45f/0r.

When you run that much splay, which way does your torso point: spit the toes, lined up with the front or something else? Could you rotate it another 20 degrees forward and keep the same splay (55f/15r)? It seems the more forward you go the less splay you can tolerate.

FWIW mine is 45f/40r, so only 5 degrees of splay.

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asymetrical development is normal anyway, this is why some people are goofy and other are regular

a couple people brought up the hip thing years ago because Terje and a couple other guys had hip injuries and suggested it was due to the angles that they ride(could not have anything to do with 20ft airs out a QP :smashfrea ) these same dudes were also pimping the aasi stuff about every one should ride duck no exceptions, the same types were also saying at the time that a twin was the only way to go as far as your board is concerned.

it could be said that riding a wide stance or riding duck causes knee issues in fact many people do say just that

BOBDEA is officially correct in all respects. You use your right or left hand ,most of you, as well. that isn't going to give you shoulder problems:freak3: :freak3: :freak3:

We are as bob said not symetrical beings anyway. We adapt to our environments and our favorite positions and angles etc. Its what we do! Adapting is what is at the essence of being alive.

Its the failure to adapt that causes the injury not the position you were in when you failed to adapt.

some things are harder to adapt to. A tree at 30mph for instance or pink spandex on fat people:D at any rate choose the stance that fits you and allows you to perform whatever moves you are attempting and go with it.

ASIDE

I personally refer to it as the brokeback cowboy taking a dump stance. If it feels good when upside down and spinning maybe its ok but definitely not for me!:barf:

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I quit skiing because there was always some putz telling me my angles this and my hips that and I wasn't doing it right etc.

I snowboard because it feels good and for no other reason. So if we fall into the old you gotta do it this way cause its official BS trap how is that gonna bring young people into our narrow segment of the world?

Just go have fun and quit worrying about doing it RIGHT:freak3:

thats my 2 cents

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I don't see why you would even apply this to alpine boards. Duck hardboots on a big waisted (freestyle/AM) board? Maybe, but if you actually wanted to ride a duck stance on a true alpine setup you'd need -25 deg or more for no overhang, no? Good luck riding with that "splay".

Riding duck on freestyle definately has it's advantages for riding switch. Nobody should ever be so close-minded in saying "duck is suck". Being able to have the same stance regardless of your riding orientation is an obvious benefit from riding duck.

My personal priority is to ride alpine, and I do so about 85-90% of the time (~30 days/season). There's no way in hell I'm riding duck, so riding switch on my alpine setup means I'm riding ~ -50 Front and -55 Rear. What should I be doing the other 10-15% of the time that I'm riding softboots to help better my switch riding? Riding 5/-5 duck isn't really gonna help me learn to ride -50/-55 (switch) on my alpine setup, but perhaps it would make me more comfortable riding switch in general.

Sorry to get off topic...I know the OP was about hip problems running high binding angles! :p

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I crosstrain. Carve angles 55/50 and freeride 15/-10. Way fun to do trees regularfoot then do last minute turns goofyfoot. Can do some mellow carving goofy but need to setup the bindings goofy to do it right.

In 04/05 my right side "ankle to waist" was much bigger than my left. No problems though. Just my $.02.

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I guess I tend to be surrounded by 100+ day types, who have been at it for years, though I suspect you're right about the "normal" rider who gets out maybe 10 times a season. In that context, there should be no way to blow yourself up... cumulatively, that is.

I still think that teaching someone to ride in both directions at the start could oly help them.

This is my 13th season, and lastyear I had 85 days. I have ridden 45 frint, 32 back both in the same dirrection (agressive stance) since I felt uncomfortable riding ducked out. I've never had any "issues" with riding this way, so I think that transitioning to a carve board will be even smother for me once I lock down with the hardboot setup. Riding "switch" when facing in onedirrection.... now THATS a challenge ! Since I've been riding 3 strap bindings with locking heelplate for almost 10+ years, it is almost the same response as a carve board, and I can lean way in when I corner hard, and it always seems to impress people how low I could get. I teach switch riding and can do goofy also, but it feels completely assbackwards and weird.

Hell, I'll ride whatever at this point..........

DAMN IT AH NEED SNOOWWWW !!!!!!

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Many people aged 40+ take up snowboarding. That's tough as it is, without having to contort older legs duck. Most of them will never ride switch and have trouble cranking thier necks inline with thier shoulders (as no rotation is allowed). Seems like a great way to put a lot of people off snowboarding.

Seems to me there should be something in the middle, not freestyle, not alpine. Something like a 25/10 stance on a directional board that people could have some simple fun with. To give an analogy, there's whitewater kayaking, sprint race kayaking and general touring. In snowboarding today, there's no general touring (at least being taught as such).

I have a friend, 50 something. He rides duck because that's what the instructors tell him is cool. I've never seen him ride fakie and it's like watching someone take a BMX bike on a cross country tour.

BobD

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many of us who have been around wether or not we ride hardboots tend to remember the days before jibbing was all there was to the sport

lots of people do ride duck that should not be or at least not AS duck as they are, as well as ride a huge stance, I have helped people that have whack angles feel more comfortable usually it's reducing the amount of offset not really about wether or not they are actually in a duck stance or forward

often some boner in the shop will set up a board for a girl that is 5'1 with a stance wider than what I can comfortably ride (in one case 22.5 for a tiny woman) and with -10 in the back

I used ride 21 12 though as of late it's 18 and 9 both forward and usually 21 or 22 inches wide depending on the board, this often comes down to compromising with where I want to be placed on the board and finding a stance width that allows it

guess what happens if you mellow it out?

Most people seem more comfortable if their angles are not more that 10 degrees apart, myself included.

Three of the people who could have some great input on this don't post here anymore, too bad

also, for many people their heelsides get weak when too duck

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I think stance has pros and cons no matter how you do it. Terje Haakonsen has his feet at +21 and +9 and swears that you have more power and control with both at positive angles.

I can ride switch in pow at +18 and +3 and it's comfortable to me. It's just how you learn and prefer to ride.

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