michael.a

Thats why you dont counter-rotate when turning ;)

I remember you asking for a review when I first showed her off, btw, do you have one? I was hoping to make it SES this year with my Goltes and Plasma and lend them out but couldnt make it, hopefully next year for ECES.

I was already in the market for a board to replace my aging F2 RS 177 for all mountain riding when I tested Jani's wares during the WCS in Austria last year. I wanted a board that would be good for the frequently rutted, icy, and narrow slopes we have in Poland/Czech Rep, something in between a slalom and GS board but a step down for freecarving purposes and with metal to smooth out the ride. I was really set on a Donek Proteous but the cost and shipping fees would have killed me, so I was really happy when I found this board as a great replacement, especially factoring in the price. The conditions in Austria were a good test bed, high temps led to slushy mogul fields that around 3pm began to freeze over. Wwhile I preferred the 180 as I'm more into big boards, I thought the 173 would better meet my requirements and went on to bag the demo I rode on. The 173 I got has a soft flex in the nose and waist and stiffer tail. For my weight (90kg) I could even say it is too soft but has incredible edge hold especially on ice and the hard stuff. The 12 m sidecut is just right for riding in more crowded conditions and narrow slopes. Included were a pair of Goltes race plates, basically a pair of plastic risers that are curved at the bottom with some foam padding, allowing the board to progressively flex while also protecting the titanal layer from undue stress. I havent tried the board without the plates for warranty reasons but tried it on a F2 RS 183 and the difference is notable, something like a 20-30% smoother ride and added edge hold. The topsheet is ptex or similar to ptex, it's completely converted me to this kind of material. Supposedly it allows for a uniform top/bottom flex, for me aesthetically it is gold. I can let it get dull or wax it and have it shine. Scratches and bindings can easily be waxed over, worst case scenario I'll give the topsheet a grind to have it look like new. I've ridden it now in pretty much everything, blue ice, on a crust of death cookies, hardpack, fresh groom etc and it has been incredibly predictable, stable with good torsional stiffness , just the right amount . Unfortunately by the third day I noticed that the titanal started to delam by the nose. Even though this was a demo board Jani offered to replace it at no cost. He shipped not only an identical 173 but also included another 173 but far stiffer and see which one works better! I decided to stay with the soft version as the flex was just perfect for what I wanted, but opinion was divided after a few friends tested the board. Those more into 'race style' and who liked speed preferred the stiffer one, saying their technique didnt work with the soft board or that the longitudinal flex was just too soft throughout the board. I like finishing my turns and getting low but also going fast, so who knows. The board has just a bit of camber underneath the feet, like 0.5 cm, this combined with the titanal offers a very stable ride but is obviously lacking in pop. This is one thing I wish there was more of, either through adding more carbon fiber and reactive wood and greater camber to make this board more lively. I know this review might not be helpful for the US crowd as Goltes is a Slovenian manufacturer, but I was really impressed with this board (and others by Goltes, especially the My Way). Anyone want any pics?

My ptex topsheet looks exactly the same.

It's just one guy and in my case it took a week before my order was shipped. I would give John a call ASAP.

Thanks nils for the info, still a really fun video :)

Here's a link to Bart's website where the full version of the review is available: http://megustasport.com/swoard-dual-vs-voelkl-coal/

Of those two I can recommend the Swoard Dual and Volkl Coal XT. Others that come to mind: F2 Eliminator Virus UFC Ultimate Freecarve Boardercross Rad-Air Tanker (I have the 200cm and it rips in hard- and softboots but obviously you'll need something smaller)

Hey this stuff also plays a role, though I thought they would be similar as I saw both the NCR and Kessler have similar taper. And I'm guessing you mean the Coiler has easier release as the Kessler was the most 'locked in' board I ever rode.

Interesting.. if power and experience are losers then what for you was the winning combination?

NICE heelsides!!

Any of the better membrane fabrics should keep you dry (goretex, event, conduit), I rode in heavy rain a couple of times wearing my gore-tex stuff and stayed completely dry. I call it quits once my goggles start pooling water :)

That's what I thought, thank you, I want to create a little table in my mind linking correlations between our actions and how they effect the snowboard and vice versa, of course in a carved turn, so something like: control the radius of the carve = move weight towards the front, center, or tail of the board or modify the angle of the board in relation to the snow and move weight towards the front, center of tail = controls the radius of the carve, quickens or delays initiation of the carve, and modify the pop between turns Just I'm not always sure if I've correctly identified the causes/effects and appropriate definitions :)

What's the rule? 10000 hours to become an expert on something? Keep going :)

Thank you, unfortunately the need for humans and ermm me to classify something as 'this or that' is quite damaging to aspects that can technically be both :) Nonetheless, if I may simplify then a cross-under may have rotation or even counterotation and varied amounts of extension/flexion depending on the the above variables (i.e. size of the turn, variances in terrain, and the amount of rebound on tap). The defining criteria is that I am 'over' the board when changing edges.. or the board is under me. On a personal note, then what the hell am I doing here? youtube.com/watch?v=-KJIAMymeCE I thought this could be considered a cross-over, but then if I'm over the board when changing edge regardless of knee work then it's a cross-through??

Hi Erik, how dependent is a 'cross under' on knee work or where the torso faces? Because I've run into two different strict definitions, where (1) you suck up the knees as much asyou can during the transition and extend them out during the turn (aka the extremecarving push-pull) regardless of upper body rotation i.e. torso alignment, or (2) where the torso pretty much faces downhill the entire time while the legs only do the work by swinging out irrespective of how much the knees actually work. Or is it both? Help?

to bobby I just want to say that I've met Joerg as well as Patrice and Jacques from Swoard and there is nothing elitist or cultish about them, they are incredibly friendly, open and sincere and you their passion for snowboarding is unbelivable. I really don't know why people have such a huge problem that they developed a concept that combines a specific riding style with their own type of snowboards, technique, and setup as well as having their own opinions on the matter. Edit part II, modified some of the off-topic stuff on Europeans but kept the rest as is :) Back on topic. I think stance is so highly personal that it's difficult to go by even go what others use. For example, I tried Joerg's board and if I remember correctly he has a narrow stance with a flat front foot and massive outward cant on the rear with toe lift?, splay of something like 20 degrees, and rides in two different boots due to their flex, I think the front was a Raichle 325 and the rear a Deeluxe Free 69. I'm sure I got some of the details wrong, please correct me.

Thank you all for the feedback, much appreciated as I'm looking for replace my F2 183 (btw demoed quite a bit of stuff to narrow down my choice to 'Kessler' including the Proteus and Rev, newer F2s, Rabenser, but no Coilers!) I used the word 'better' knowing full well it is very subjective especially for something as individual-specific as an alpine snowboard, but I think it is entirely appropriate when comparing boards used for a similar purpose and by competent riders and includes factors like price :) You guys know what 'feels' better and what is a better deal, and what I read above confirmed it for me. The NSR is 'better' :)

So word's abound that Bruce's NSR is better than Kessler's GS stick. I'm guessing this was for a freecarving and not racing application. Can anyone chime in (hopefully corey or alpine2012 as they brought it up)? I was set on a Kessler 180 as my next go-to all-rounder powerhouse (demoed the 185, bit too much hence the step down) and this cast a lot of doubt on my next purchase.

Could you and corey say a bit more on this? I was aiming for the high-power of a stock 180 Kessler (tried the 185 but it was too stiff) but you guys just made me slam the brakes. Wait, I dont want to clutter liv4curdoury's thread, I'll make a new one in CC.

I'm gonna take the VAS 166 out tomorrow and give it another spin, haven't ridden it in 3 years. Maybe do a throwback Friday, the Rossignol, a 1st gen Swoard and borrow a friend's Volant.

If I remember correctly (a big IF) the '70/30' concept is meant to be more of an exercise to correct unbalanced (commonly intermediate) riders who often overload the nose on a toeside carve and sit way too far back on a heelside, frequently experiencing chatter or unable to control speed on steep/icy terrain. I found that shifting your weight forwards/backwards is more dependent on the type of snow you're riding on than anything else.

Unreal! Coiler and Donek in Europe?? :) Sean, we met at Carving Masters two years ago, would you be interested in sending some demo boards to Poland for our (very originally named) Polish Carving Session? Not this one as it's on Feb 7th but maybe next year?

I don't follow. That the board is prone to chatter and way too stiff for ice even for heavy riders?

I have this board and can confirm. This is a stiff board with a foam core and no dampness, it has a nose that's too stiff and does NOT ride well on ice/hardpack and is prone to chatter, making it very demanding. I think it has a 10.5m sidecut.