Ready to Install Boilerplate V2 - Need Direction!

[barryj]

I vaguely understand the BP  install, having watched Fin's BP install clip numerous times but reluctant to yank my TD3's off the Kessler to get started without a better battle plan and just wondering if there was something more thorough out there to setting up the BP on my Kessler

Step by step BP and BP cant/disc binding instructions or other video clips people know of??

[SunSurfer]

Barry, 

Is your setup going to be a 4x4 or UPM setup?

If 4x4, what is the spacing of the outermost inserts? 

What is your preferred stance distance?

[barryj]

I'm going with the UPM setup and I got a wonderbar

[Jack M]

A tip for a starting point that Fin used to give was to position everything such that your front foot is in its normal location, and that the front axle of the BP is under the ball of your foot.  Of course it may require some adjustment after you try it and get a feel for it.  Fortunately you're not drilling holes in anything so this is all part of the fun.  See what configuration works best for you.

[SunSurfer]

Absolutely agree with Jack's comment and Fin's original description above. That configuration will get you well started and then you can experiment from that baseline.

UPM makes it easy if your board maker has done their job well. I doubt there will be a problem on a Kessler. The designed spacing should exactly fit the various screw holes in the plate. You should mount the axle units symmetrically on the UPM inserts.

Depending upon your foot size the axles should be between 5-8cm beyond your binding centres. I'm a mondo 29 and I run my axles about 7cm beyond my binding centres. If you can't get that positioning exactly then go for the axles further apart rather than closer together.

Conventionally the floating axle is placed at the front. Theoretically, because the plate allows the whole board to flex independently of the plate, it makes minimal functional difference if the fixed axle is at the front. I ride fixed at the front for the more solid feeling beneath the ball of my front foot.

First time setting it up always takes a little time and fiddling. 

One last point. I use 3mm spacers between the sliding axle unit and the plate. The extra distance prevents the plate impinging on the axle housing in the peak of your carves.

First few runs it'll feel different. Skating, and waiting in lift queues is also different because of the extra height. Watch out for the footrests on the chairlifts for the same reason. Soon you'll be riding faster than before, and for more of the day.

[trailertrash]

Why do need a BP? I thought your Moss did everything?

 

[barryj]

Thanks for the info guys! 

My stance width center to center of the bindings is 20.5 inches/52.07 cm

I'm going to watch Fin's demo again and then give it a go 

Also is putting TD3 SW's on a BP a problem of Too Much damping???         ...of course will use BP cants,    BP E-rings and BP center discs to lower the stack height~

1 hour ago, trailertrash said:

Why do need a BP? I thought your Moss did everything?

Ha!   The Moss is a Rockstar that can do everything...but it is quite the celebrity at every mountain I go to .....of which all the attention can get annoying  

So I'm going incognito with the Kessler with a BP!  

Edited December 7, 2018 by barryj

[daveo]

Sooooo I found with the Kessler 168, depending on which UPM holes you use you can make it run shorter or longer. Well that probably seems obvious. I think I found the middle holes to be most versatile and 'fun' but probably ran a tiny bit short, but the holes more far apart definitely gave an amazing ride!! The ones that were narrower than mid just made my board turn too fast. Like, way too fast.

But no matter what, I found centered was always best. 100%. I tried a few diff combinations. None felt nice.

Those are the results from my highly scientific experiments that I've done with my plate and k168.

[barryj]

4 minutes ago, daveo said:

my highly scientific experiments that I've done with my plate and k168.

Thanks Mr. Wizard!  You using a BP?  

Can you post some photos of your setup and the Plate placement.....

[daveo]

32 minutes ago, barryj said:

Thanks Mr. Wizard!  You using a BP?  

Can you post some photos of your setup and the Plate placement.....

Nope I am using an Apex Race V2. I've ridden a BP, though.

Unfortunately most of my hardboot stuff is in Japan  I can send a few photos in Feb, though!!

Edited December 7, 2018 by daveo

[barryj]

Ok........this is what I got so far......my question is am I on the right track?...

Does my spacing need to be wider?....as you can see I'm all  the way forward in the rear UPM inserts  and and I'm all the back with the front UPM inserts.

It seems to line up with the center slots I choose in the plate for the bosses 

......but maybe I need to move them farther apart......how do I know?

 

[Beckmann AG]

In the interest of clarity, and minimizing variables, maybe leave the Sidewinders for another day.

[daveo]

Oh wow! The mounts use every second insert and go across the entire width of the board! I never knew it was such a large footprint. 

I guess this is why people are always complaining about the whole "waa waa I can't pedal my board *tears roll out of eyes*".

My Apex mounts are just two little rectangular hingey holey things either side connected to two consecutive inserts and has 4 independent axles.

I rode both and didn't notice a difference though. I probably suck. No, I definitely suck.

... 

Anyway. I reckon you're good to go. Give it a shot. Then at lunch move it in an insert and give that a shot. You only have 4 possible configurations, so can probably have a good idea of what you like after 2 days.

... 

Side note with relevancy. I also switched to no cant with a plate. Don't know why but the man JJA recommended it to me and I loved it. Still ride with my front foot canted in on my powder board with no plate though.... 

Edited December 8, 2018 by daveo

[barryj]

15 minutes ago, daveo said:

move it in an insert

...as in move the UPM brackets?.......wouldn't that only give me three options

1 - move front UPM up one insert

2 - move rear UPM up one insert

3 -  move both UPM's up one insert....

4? - I guess moving the rear UPM back one insert also counts...but that seem the wrong direction ??  

[daveo]

Well, there are 4 possible configurations, right? What you currently have and the other 3? Unless I'm seeing things or misinterpreting it. They are like the following morse code, right? 

: ; : ;   ; : ; :

; : ; :   : ; : ;

; : ; :   ; : ; :

: ; : ;   : ; : ;

I think only the first two would feel good for me from my highly scientific testing of randomly changing inserts and not really taking note, but maybe if you tend to ride weighted more forward or backward, 3 or 4 might work. I'm no engineer or biomechanist, though. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by daveo

[jburk]

Let me tell you what worked for me mounting a BP v2 4mm Lite plate. This is the TLDR summary of a very long and informative back and forth with @SunSurfer, and had me at a workable setup right out of the gate. 

You want to start by finding the distance between binding center and the first bone  of your front foot’s big toe; lets call this the “offset”.  For me with my boot size at my angles, this was 4.5 cm, your mileage will vary.  Add twice this distance to your stance width to get the minimum axle spacing. With a 50cm stance, that means 50 + (4.5 * 2) = 59. If you can’t set the plate so that the axles are this far apart, go to the next wider setting, don’t go narrower. 

Mount the plate centered on the board at this axle spacing. Mount the front binding so that the binding center is the offset (for me, that was 4.5cm) behind the axle. This will place the base of you big toe over the front axle. Make sure you’re either over or slightly behind the axle, you don’t want to be in front of it. 

Mount the rear binding at your normal stance width from the front. Keep your regular cant and lift, don’t change too many things at once. 

You can follow conventional wisdom and mount the fixed axle at the rear, or try sunsurfer’s suggestion of mounting the fixed axle up front for a more direct feel; this is probably a good way to start if this is your first time riding a plate, it reduces the “disconnected” sensation. I went fixed up front to start with, then swapped it to floating up front after 10 days or so. 

 

[daveo]

@jburkYou seem to be missing 4 toenails. Everything okay?

[jburk]

I shoot myself in the foot on a regular basis when I shoot my mouth off. 

[daveo]

If I did that, I'd have no feet (or legs) left.

Edited December 8, 2018 by daveo

[barryj]

7 hours ago, daveo said:

@jburkYou seem to be missing 4 toenails. Everything okay?

His head   needed all the circulation to do all this measuring and calculating!! 

[Corey]

As an engineer who actually likes calculations, I think you guys are making this too complicated.  

Put a piece of tape (or use a marker) on the side of your board where your bindings are. Put the front axle ahead of the front, rear behind the rear. Bindings go above the tape/marker. Ride. 

If nose feels soft, move front axle forward. If nose feels stiff, move front axle rearward. Generally, the front axle goes under or ahead of the ball of your foot. The rear axle position is mostly irrelevant from what Fin said. 

And just for Fin: DO NOT hammer in the axles. If they don't slide in by hand, the base plates aren't properly aligned. Fix that instead of using force. I like to install the rear/fixed axle first, as it needs the most precise alignment. The front sliders can tolerate a little more misalignment. 

Bonus tip: The end of a 5mm hex key engages nicely into the ends of the axles, useful for pushing them in/out with a T-handle. You can even rotate it a bit if the axle is sticky. 

[barryj]

8 hours ago, jburk said:

finding the distance between binding center and the first bone  of your front foot’s big toe

Uh....did you just eyeball that 4.5cm  measurement or did you measure this....with your foot in the boot and the forward foot/boot  in the binding?

8 hours ago, jburk said:

This will place the base of you big toe over the front axle.

"base"?   So you mean where the big toe connects to the ball of my foot...right?  Not the ball of the foot - correct.

So in you drawing the first line behind the big toe..."at the base of big toe"   also represents where the front axle placement should be - correct.

 

 

[barryj]

8 minutes ago, Corey said:

Put a piece of tape (or use a marker) on the side of your board where your bindings are. Put the front axle ahead of the front

Corey........ I see the logic but is the tape  that's placed on the side of the board marking the center of the respective binding?

"Put front axle ahead" ........... how much ahead?  You mean move the front axle UPM base forward one set of inserts?

[jburk]

29 minutes ago, barryj said:

did you just eyeball that 4.5cm  measurement or did you measure this....with your foot in the boot and the forward foot/boot  in the binding?

Measured with the boot in the front binding and the binding mounted at your regular angle. I put a piece of masking tape on the edge of the board near the binding centre, then laid a ruler across the board at binding center and marked the tape.  I put another length of tape up around where I thought the point would be where my big toe connects to my foot. Then I put my boot on and stepped into the binding, and marked the second piece of tape where I guessed my big toe was; guess is as good as it gets unless your boots are transparent.

Now you have 2 marks that you can measure between. I’ve seen in other threads that you run really steep angles, so it wouldn’t surprise me if your marks are 8-10 cm apart. With a 52 cm stance width then add 16-20, that’s going to exceed the BP’s max axles spacing of 62 cm by quite a bit.  With your front foot properly over the axle, some of the weight on your back foot may end up behind the rear axle.

Move the side bosses on the plate to the outermost position to give you the BP’s max axle spacing of 62 cm. Mount the bases centered on the board with the outermost set of pins on the wunderbar to match the side boss & axle spacing 

Then mount the front binding behind the front axle by the offset distance you measured between the 2 marks on the masking tape earlier. This should put the base of the front foot's big toe over the axle. Then mount the rear binding at your normal stance width. 

If the rear bindings center looks like it’s very close to or behind the rear axle, you might end up with too much weight behind the rear axle, which can negate a lot of the benefit if the plate on heelsides, and put a lot of strain on the tail of the plate. If you think this is a possibility, you might consider angles in the high 50’s. But if you change angles, you’ll have to remeasure the offset and remont the front then back bindings again. High angles, big boots, and a wide stance require a lot of axle spacing to keep all your weight between the axles. 

[pokkis]

Setting it up is like setting your stance, put it to as explained by some/any one, and when it does not feel good, as usual, change one thing at time. This is not rocket sience and there is no rule how to get it to optimal setup.

Main issue is that if one has never ridden with plate, you should ride several runs before doing adjustment, in best case half day before trying to adjust anything. Optimal would be first adjust your riding and and then when it starts to feel ok, then do small adjustements. Final tinkering will never end due snow and slope are living thing and they need constant adjustements to get it perfect. Remember how JJ micro adjusted his setup in Olympics.