Slope Rage

[D-Sub]

sometimes fights are justified...pretty rare though. that vid shows one that definitely was, and I was glad to see the screamer all bloodied up!

[ar(angel]

I noticed he also circled and waited until he had the uphill position so when he threw his punch it would have maximum effect. Good on him I say, never under estimate your opponent, it can have embarrassing consequences.

[D-Sub]

interview afterwards the dude definitely looks like a fighter, too.

Id be glad to know the whole story.

I've been in a couple altercations before, never started any but have allowed them to escalate by my participation, and it really never feels good, hence my comment about fighting rarely being justified.

I saw a grown man attacking a pretty young kid once so I inserted myself in that one...

as a whole, though...this is the scary part...is that we are largely out of control as a society. people take "offense" no matter what...often assuming they are right, becoming violently defensive when confronted about their mistakes...too many people walkin around with F YOU on their minds...

kinda hard not to expect them to behave that way when our leaders do the exact same thing on a global scale, and the big business models do it too

[Neil Gendzwill]

too many people walkin around with F YOU on their minds...

Sometimes literally.

[Guest Tim Tuthill]

Hey All: When you are in Aspen next week "SES" and comming down to the lift in front of Bumps, look to your left and be slowed down big time!! The X games jump run out is there and someone comming off it is going to be hauling big time. Now that said, They may have moved the jump up the hill??? Anyone know about this?? I was going very slow looking for my wife last year and got taken out big time. Two days in the Aspen hospital and 4 months to recover. A pelvic heamatoma the size of a grapefruit is real pain!! Look at the hill before you go and check with the patrol office to the left of the main entrance to see whats up. Have a great time, I wont be there this year. Wifes recuping from surgery 2 weeks ago.

[kipstar]

Well, I'd have to try to be sure, but I don't think a muay Thai roundhouse would be that hard in boots; it isn't like you kick with your foot unlike most other martial arts, and the balance point is fairly stable; I am very inflexible, and can still kick on a slippery serface ok, but icy would not work.

The hard bit would not be getting your leg going, it would the other foot still on the ground slipping around.

There is one version of the kick where you explode right off the ground, and both feet end up off the ground, that might work best ;-) The cutting downwards kick where you take the guy's lead leg out (preferably from back to front so you hit him in the hamstring), that wuold be well painful if you got it right.

I might have to go home and see if I can do it; certainly it would be slower, but I think quite possible to do, provided the other guy was willing to stand around waiting for the pummeling.

I would stick with the elbows or knees, absolutely no problem to deal out some serious damage with those.

I've sparred against most other martial arts, and I don't think too many have a similar kick to the muay Thai roundhouse; I have heard that kempo is similar but I don't know if it is true. I DO know that when they had the series between the kung fu masters and the Muay Thai fighters in the 70s, that all the rounds finished after one or two kicks, with the kung fu guys just decimated by the power of the kicks; they had to stop promoting them because no Thai people would bet or watch them. not so sure about other arts.

In general, non Thais can learn Muay Thai, they can even develop a fairly strong kick, but it is usually slower, and not as powerful as the Thais doing it. The k1 guys for instance, they are so big, so their kicks are not so powerfully snappy or quick, but their punches are very powerful (even in sparring from what I recall :-). K1 Max (the middle weight division) is a lot closer to Thai Muay Thai, but without elbows, it favours fists too much.

I'd say, evolving the subject, that wingchun seems to stand flat footed and be infighting so probably that would be the most useful since you don't give up upper body speed in ski gear. Also, it is lethal against inept boxers.

One of my friends used to have the street fighter game, the full arcade machine, at home; he and his friends mastered all the moves on it; a great game indeed :-)

I might try on my boots, and I'll report back as to whether it is possible. For sure though, the Muay Thai gyms aren't going to let me do a 5 rounder wearing riachle indys.

Well maybe heads, but definitely no raichles ;-)))))

[Dan]

I love that this thread has evolved from "look out for slope rage" to "here's the best way to take out those dirty **** of ******* while hampered by your gear"

Bomber Online, the best source for all your carving needs.

[Gleb]

:lol:

So true and street fighter 2 is one of the best fighting games ever. Rivaled only by mortal kombat 2. There are few of us on the slopes so might as well learn how to defend ourselves if someone starts sh*t when it was their fault:angryfire

[bjvircks]

OK... now that we (or a friend/child) has been hammered by an obliviot... how do we get them to meet their obligations??? Medical bills are the worst part of this issue. If this happened on our streets or highways we would scream bloody murder and have police hunt the 'hit and run' scum down. Beating the crap out of an offender won't pay the bills they've caused.

What should be done so we can stop and identify people who've injured us/friends/children??? We need to start holding these jerks accountable for their actions! (legitimate, serious stuff... not 'that beginner scuffed the top of my new coiler')

My son got knocked down and unconsious at Lake Louise. Further examinations showed HIGH potential for broken neck. Extensive (& expensive) follow up at Banff, then Calgary complete with ambulance rides. ALL OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES SINCE I AM U.S. CITIZEN, NOT CANADIAN.

Someone else CONTINUES to be a jerk and WE get stuck paying the bills.

What can we do??? :confused: Punching them out just won't work.

ok guys... shutting down rant-mode

Brad

[ar(angel]

Sorry about the martial arts stuff, maybe Kip and I can continue our findings in an off topic forum. You're right, getting the responsible parties to own up and pay up is of great concern and should be the 2nd if not the first thing addressed in such a case, especially when innocents are involved. One of my best friends is an attorney and I'll pose the question to him this weekend. The firm he's a partner at specializes in insurance cases providing legal counsel for large company's. He should have some good insight into this problem. I'll post what I find out here,

Thanks,

Paul

[kipstar]

My answer to that is that the ski resorts need to actually have enough staff on to make sure the runs are safe, and to promote safe skiing and boarding.

Compared to when I last went to USA, since these new carving skis and more grooming, it just feels like there are more people on the runs, and a lot of them are going a LOT faster.

Slow down!! be in control!! Check your lines, and avoid others!!

The ironic thing is that all this 'suing' 'I will kick your butt' stuff actually makes people less likely to take responsibility for their own actions, because they think there is some solution if they get in trouble.

Better to be a man (or woman) and step and ride responsibly in the first place.

I am the LEAST likely person to get in a fight.

But rest assured if I am provoked and hit hard (being hit softly i don't care about, is dat da best you can do), then I will hit back, and I will do so until I am either laid out or have adminsteered a good pummel to his face.

Elbows and the push kick are my best suggestions, and for real damage is push kick right into the knee or upper thigh. This reduces the balance issue, because the foot does not have to be lifted very high, it also plays on the weakness of lateral and quick movements by the assailant, since they are also probably in ski boots or snowboard boots.

My worst move I can suggest is right out of Tekken 2 :-) This would be the Jack 2 special move with the big looping hooks.. there is no reason why someone cannot roll under punches, and anyway, punches are fairly weak ways of dealing with confrontations. However, wearing gloves does favour punching once again.... so hard to say.

My own suggestion, is to do ilke the Hulk Hogan, and then pick the guy up, hold him over your head, then body slam him onto your board. THen go and run into one of the those ropes they use to fence off, then run back and do a leg drop thing on him, then you got the pin for 1....2.....3! All over the neeeeeew snowboard combat champion of the wooooooooorld AAARERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ANGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLL!!

[Dave Pushee]

... My son got knocked down and unconsious at Lake Louise. ... Brad

Brad,

How is your son? That sounded pretty serious. I hope he's going to be ok.

Was this a hit and run, or did the other person stop?

In collisions like this, there should be an attempt to identify the individuals involved. If a skier is involved, it's a good idea to ask them to remove the skis and set them up in a cross signal uphill of the victim. This accomplishes three things: protects the victim from more injuries; signals that help is needed; and keeps that potentially responsible person there until ski patrol arrives (and gets identification). Snowboarders can be asked to remove the board, hike uphill, and provide protection. Anything to keep them there until a mountain employee can collect info.

[Jack M]

My answer to that is that the ski resorts need to actually have enough staff on to make sure the runs are safe, and to promote safe skiing and boarding.

Skiing and Snowboarding are inherently dangerous. I go to the mountain to escape the nanny-state we live in the rest of the time.

[Guest thomas_m]

Skiing and Snowboarding are inherently dangerous. I go to the mountain to escape the nanny-state we live in the rest of the time.

Would you feel still feel that way after your young child recieved a crippling injury from an out of control skier/boarder? Especially when there was a possibility of contributory negligence on behalf of the resort?

T.

[Allee]

My son got knocked down and unconsious at Lake Louise. Further examinations showed HIGH potential for broken neck. Extensive (& expensive) follow up at Banff, then Calgary complete with ambulance rides. ALL OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES SINCE I AM U.S. CITIZEN, NOT CANADIAN.

Emergency medical. Don't leave home without it. I pay $58 a year for cover that has my back wherever in the world I go ... and that includes snowboarding trips three hours drive away in BC, where my provincial health coverage isn't in effect.

You should check with your credit card provider as well. If you paid for your air tickets and stuff on the card, some of them actually have that coverage built in. Worth a look.

[Jack M]

Would you feel still feel that way after your young child recieved a crippling injury from an out of control skier/boarder? Especially when there was a possibility of contributory negligence on behalf of the resort?

Yes. Taking my children skiing is "acceptible risk" in my book. I'm all for designated slow trails, "family" trails, and all that happy horsepoop, but to insinuate that the resort <i>can</i> or even <i>should</i> guarantee your safety all over the mountain is insane. That takes the responsibility off the individual and places it on the resort, which simply cannot be responsible for everyone.

[Guest thomas_m]

Yes. Taking my children skiing is "acceptible risk" in my book. I'm all for designated slow trails, "family" trails, and all that happy horsepoop, but to insinuate that the resort <i>can</i> or even <i>should</i> guarantee your safety all over the mountain is insane. That takes the responsibility off the individual and places it on the resort, which simply cannot be responsible for everyone.

I'd agree with that.

I think I focused more on Kip's 'promote' and you focused more on 'make sure' as equivalent to 'guarantee'. The latter in an obvious non-starter. Beyond a reasonable level of due care by the resort, we have to be responsible for ourselves. The problem is everyone has a different view of 'reasonable level of due care' and their views may actually change based on whatever context they face at the time...

T.

[bjvircks]

Dave... Joe is OK. This happened 2 years ago and totally wrecked our vacation.

Others... I do understand ands accept the fact that sporting activities are intrinsically risky. BUT... like driving a car, if someone is constantly blasting thru red lights and causing accidents... I will not sit still for jerks behaving poorly on the slopes. In all facets of life people need act responsibly. I don't want a 'police state' on the slopes, but I don't want to get slammed in the back, Spyder jacket ripped open, seeing stars for a moment, someone's skis on top of me. This happened to me at Heavenly Jan 25. They guy basicly said "What's your problem? You need to get out of my way!"

I think this thread could be less about "let's punch out the jerks" and more about "hold them responsible and make it widely known they can't get away with it".

(1) Measures like knowing what frequency(s) are monitored by area ski patrols, rescue squads and law enforcment.

(2) Then USING the radio to get help and identify/detain offenders.

Resorts don't want these jerks driving up their insurance rates and driving away paying customers. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SOME OF THE MAYHEM WE'VE READ IN THIS THREAD.

Brad

edit... I'm not just whistling dixie about this crap...

[D-Sub]

Emergency medical. Don't leave home without it. I pay $58 a year for cover that has my back wherever in the world I go ...

if I could get ANY form of insurance for $58 a year I would buy it all day long

car insurance is $650, renters is $200...

minimal health insurance for me would be about $125 a MONTH

[kipstar]

Yes. Taking my children skiing is "acceptible risk" in my book. I'm all for designated slow trails, "family" trails, and all that happy horsepoop, but to insinuate that the resort <i>can</i> or even <i>should</i> guarantee your safety all over the mountain is insane. That takes the responsibility off the individual and places it on the resort, which simply cannot be responsible for everyone.

Jack

I take your point, and it is little puzzling to me that in other countries without the 'nanny state' mentality you mention of America, there is also not the degree of dangerous skiing that there is in the states.

I have thought for a while about this, and conclude there are a few things causing it:

- the increased range of groomed runs, including some very steep runs now that previously would have required negotiation of bumps, ice, etc

- the new carving equipment and snowboards specifically for learning fast and getting good fast that allow someone with not much experience to go very fast on these sorts of slopes, perhaps more so than before

- the line with the carving skis means people are going downhill, and not scrubbing speed by skidding turns, they are holding most of it through the turn. A fair few of the boarders are now riding almost the same way

- the lack of personal responsibility and urban hooligans 'chav' culture

- simply a lot more people on the same runs

- the snow in USA (at least on the west coast) is so much softer and easier to ride that say the variable snow of NZ or Korea, that you can go fast knowing that you are not going to run into ice or slush or rocks around the corner

For me, I think the thing the mountain can do is to start policing who is ridnig what runs, like they do in New Zealand, with volunteers cruising around, telling beginners to stay off advanced trails, telling people without the skills to slow down, that sort of thing. Clipping tickets and so on are a last resort.

More importantly, they can explain why you need to avoid others, and so on. Edukation. This develops a culture of people not being idiots. Mt Rose generally seemed to have that culture, Alpine had it, Diamond peak did not (every time I've been there, I've been fighting with people).

They should not have to guarantee anything, and other than gross negligence, but they need to understand that they are operating a business and with that, perhaps not by law but certainly morally, come certain responsibilities to aid the safety of the resort.

[D-Sub]

kip

you forgot:

an incredible level of self-centeredness, and an amazing sense of entitlement.

these two add up to basically uneducable (wtf? is that a word?)

people don't care anymore, for the most part. they do what they want, when they want and if anyone calls them out they fight.

[skategoat]

I always thought that a low level of skill usually equated to more reckless, dangerous skiers but it's not always the case.

The most hazardous place I've ever skied or boarded in was Mt. Ste. Anne, Quebec about a month ago. There were very few snowplowing beginners. The level of snow skills was high. But then so was the level of recklessness. Both skiers and boarders. The worst offender was a guy on snowblades who was basically bombing the hill, lying on his back. He missed my daughter by a foot. I went to chase him down (not to punch him out but to slow him down) but he did not understand my English or pretended not to.

I wonder if other Quebec resorts are like this. I know Tremblant is not.

[Jack M]

I take your point, and it is little puzzling to me that in other countries without the 'nanny state' mentality you mention of America, there is also not the degree of dangerous skiing that there is in the states.

I don't believe that for a nanosecond. Can you say, broad-sweeping generalization?

And to second what Skategoat said, back when I was instructing there, Sugarloaf used to have a week where they took Canadian money at face value. Let's just say.... it didn't support your claim. And yeah, try to call any of them on it and they'd "french up" (pretend not to speak english).

[kipstar]

Fair enough.

OK... in New Zealand and Korea that I have seen for myself there is not the degree of recklessness on the slopes that I have seen for myself at Squaw, diamond Peak, mammoth, Mt rose, Alpine Meadows, Homewood.

korea gets crazily crowded though, so it might be different during the super crowded times.

Not a big sample, and certainly not enough to comment on the rest of the states, so apologies for the generalisation.

[Cindy Kleh]

Violence never solves anything. It just shows how immature you are. Yes, a father's responsibility is to protect his kid but it is also to teach that little girl manners and restraint. So what is the man's 7-yr-old learning from him? Hit first, ask questions later. I'm sure he has hit his own daughter too in a fit of rage.

I don't have my own kids but I teach kids all the time, and I don't just teach them snowboarding skills. Learning the social skills of the mtn. is just as important. If they accidently run into someone or step on someone's skis in the lift line, I insist they apologize and if they are hit, we talk about that too.

The teen that was punched suffered more than physical trauma. She probably lost alot of respect for adults.