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Slope Rage


bschurman
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It's totally different when they are your kids getting ran into...For example:

So I'm at Chuck'E'Cheeses and this three year-ish kid is playing on this game that has a steering wheel hanging off the side. My 13 month old daughter (at the time) wants to play on the wheel really bad but I hold her back so she waits her turn. The older kid walks off back towards her parents whom are eating pizza in a booth pretty close to the game. My daughter jumps on the wheel and starts playing and then out of nowhere the older girl comes back and pushes my daughter down to the ground and pretty much steps all over her getting back on the steering wheel.

So what does this a 29 year old mature father do in this situation? For some reason I lost control and I decided to get even with the girl and I pushed her back. It was one of those impulse things and my brain just kinda froze for a second. I mean who in their right mind pushes a three year old girl? Hell I'm lucky her daddy didn't whip my arse all over the ski ball. For the record I didn't hurt her or anything but she ran off crying. I barely pushed her but I'm still ashamed to this day for loosing my cool.

People do strange things when their kids are involved. Not that I think what this guy did was right but don't be so quick to judge his actions if you've never been in that situation with your own kids involved.

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and that indicates a HUGE failure in our society and upbringing. You are an adult, as am I. If we can't assess a real threat vs a mistake, accident, or selfish three year old acting the way three year olds do, the fault is with US, not anyone else.

its good you see that you overreacted, but acknowledging things doesnt excuse inexcusable behavior. Best part is, you likely won't do that again, but...

you didnt BEAT SOMEONE UP either. This ******* apparently socked up a 16 year old girl!

my assessment stands.

now...had you seen another adult do that to your child, Id have to say you were justified in possibly whoopin on em. like...the other dad might have. what did he do?

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Guess we need to be careful out there...

http://tinyurl.com/dppxs

We always need to be careful out there. Absolutely no excuse for running into anyone. Little kid or other.

I personally have wanted to kick someones a$s on the hill because they hurt someone else. Why cant people take responsibility for their actions and for being in control? Kind of like saying well just go out on the interstate and play bumper cars until you figure it out.

Too many kids don't know about control either through not being taught or not caring. How bout if you run into someone you lose your privileges for the day and lost a $50 bond that you put as an instant penalty for losing control.

Hit and run snowboarder took out one of my clients (blind jump - imagine that?) at Christmas time so bad that she has four pins in her leg and may take a year to rehab for normal walking. OOPS sorry dude no one kicked my butt so I don't have any sense of consequences. :flamethro

Just sick of people saying ah well stuff happens. :smashfrea:smashfrea:smashfrea

End of rant.

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and that indicates a HUGE failure in our society and upbringing. You are an adult, as am I. If we can't assess a real threat vs a mistake, accident, or selfish three year old acting the way three year olds do, the fault is with US, not anyone else.

its good you see that you overreacted, but acknowledging things doesnt excuse inexcusable behavior. Best part is, you likely won't do that again, but...

you didnt BEAT SOMEONE UP either. This ******* apparently socked up a 16 year old girl!

my assessment stands.

now...had you seen another adult do that to your child, Id have to say you were justified in possibly whoopin on em. like...the other dad might have. what did he do?

Nothing as I don't think he knew what to do. It's not every day you see something like that...

Anyways I agree these were totally different situations but I just wanted to show that there is a different mindset when it's your kids out there and some parents just loose control. Also wanted to point out that I reacted 100% on instinct and did not conciously do what I did. I'm pretty sure this guy acted in the same manner but he just took it way too far. Beating on a 16 year old is just too much. :mad:

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Jerry

did you interpret my post as saying "ah well, stuff happens?"

if so, you misinterpreted it.

but...stuff DOES happen. Do you throw blows with everyone who makes a mistake?

I'm definitely not saying that the girl in question shouldn't have been reprimanded, but if all that happened was she ran over the little girls' skis, and they both fell...then an ADULT MALE comes in swinging, it is he who has the problem and deserves to be punished.

maybe the little girl cut her off? it happens. I had a collision at steamboat once...older fella on a cruiser run was making nice, controlled symetrical turns in front of me...I kept pace with him for a while, was actually admiring him (he was on skis) then suddenly he just DROPS this huge left RIGHT in front of me (I was probably 50 feet left of him and close to that far uphill) so I dropped into a heelside. I was on a soft setup at the time, and just couldnt crank the turn enough...I clipped his skis and he yard saled.

I immediately stopped, asked him if he was ok. he started cussing at me, using every word you could think of, so I shut up and took my board off to help him gather his pieces, and asked him a few more times if he was ok. he said "Yeah Im ****ing fine you ****ing ******* snowboarder" and kept goin about how "we" shouldnt even be allowed on the slopes. after I made sure he was ok yet again, and that he had all his gear, I started to strap back in, and then noticed that a group of skiers had joined the party and were all yelling at me and calling me names.

I decided it was time to leave. honest to god felt like I was about to get lynched.

I got to the top of the chair, and a friend of mine said "Patrol's comin" so I bolted. SKI patrol...known to hate snowboarders just as much as that guy apparently did. I went home for the day.

now...I was uphill from this fella, and I am well aware that I apparently hadnt left enough room for him, but at the same time, he did something very, very erratic and dangerous. fact is though, it was an accident, pure and simple. Im so glad no one got hurt but if I had stuck around I think there would have been blows thrown!

perhaps resorts should require certification, and not allow beginners on the hill without say, three lessons. Heck, I used to think golf courses should do that too!

as for a "bond"...the ski area charges both people for lift tickets. any financial deal is there responsibility, although...thats not a bad idea!`

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Nothing as I don't think he knew what to do. It's not every day you see something like that...

Anyways I agree these were totally different situations but I just wanted to show that there is a different mindset when it's your kids out there and some parents just loose control. Also wanted to point out that I reacted 100% on instinct and did not conciously do what I did. I'm pretty sure this guy acted in the same manner but he just took it way too far. Beating on a 16 year old is just too much. :mad:

to go a little further though...perhaps we claim "instinct" too soon these days? I mean...if I had a child and I saw someone assaulting them...id be there in a heartbeat, but if someone ran into them on the slopes, and I saw what happened, Id likely only resort to verbal scolding.

I know youre not defending the guy, and we dont know all the facts, but you're claiming that you "instinctively" felt that there was a genuine threat to your baby when a three year old shoved her? I just don't see how your instincts could have interpreted that situation as a genuine threat worthy of a physical reaction on your part, and I definitely dont see how this other fella could have either.

I hope he is punished severely.

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I'd just be interested in who has kids and who doesnt with the responses on this thread.

Being a father myself, another one due this month, things change when being a parent.

I wouldn't use physical adjustment on someone elses kid, at the same time I wouldn't be shy about letting the other kid know if they are being an "obliviot"- oblivious idiot as long as they are IMO old enough to know better, something to the effect of "Excuse me, do you mind not shoving my kid?". The age of 3 is still a bit young and more than likely not worth saying anything, I'd just get my kid and move somewhere else.

I'm mostly referring to the Chucky Cheese story. Hell, if my kid is being an idiot and shoving another kid, I've gone wrong somewhere and need to address my parenting and get my kid realigned.

In relation to the slope story, I wouldn't resign to punching the kid, but just let her/him know to take more care in slope courtesy. Now if the kid, plowed my kid and skiied or rode away, then there would be a little pursuit and discussion.

More than likely, if the kid is an obliviot, the parent is too, so upping the ante and asking the kid to go get his Dad to settle it would more than likely lead to an unsettling situtation in the House of Mr. Cheese or at the lodge.

Sort of on the subject, I was moving to load on a quad chair last night and the kid to my left (about 16), also loading thought I was his buddy and without looking purposefully shoved me on my left shoulder, thinking I was his friend. Fortunately, I probably outweighed him by 75 pounds and it didnt knock me over, but it was a pretty good shove, I just barked a "WTF" at him and once on the chair, said the loading area isnt any place to be F***ing around. It was left at that.

Being on the slopes since the late 70's I have seen an increase in decreasing slope manners and sometimes it gets annoying. My kid isnt on the slopes yet, but my awareness levels will increase once he is.

When I'm on the slopes, its all good, but sometimes the obliviot population can bring out the worst in people.

Chubz

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bro...I am officially commandeering the term "obliviot." That is PERFECT. I call them LEMMINGS, but...OBLIVIOT! NICE!

I don't have kids. I rarely, if ever, resort to physicality though.

and...heh..."if a kid is an obliviot it is likely his parents are, too"

damn, Chubz...droppin the wisdom!

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Jerry

did you interpret my post as saying "ah well, stuff happens?"

if so, you misinterpreted it.

but...stuff DOES happen. Do you throw blows with everyone who makes a mistake?

`

Maybe I did misinterpret, and the last time I threw blows was in 8th grade and that guy deserved it too, but I also don't really believe in accidents either. As far as the guy cutting you off hard to say. That is why I look around before jamming an extra hard turn or pulling off.

I have just seen that "Oh well they are a beginner they can't be held responsible for their actions" attitude and it really chaps my split tail. There are lapses in thinking, fatigue, inexperience and terrain variations that are not perceived - but accidents??? Here I go again. I know the standard definition of an accident, but "stuff happens" means????

As far as the question about kids, yes I do have them and I do have a reaction/protection response that comes up around my kids that I never experienced before I had them. A golden bulldozed my 18 month old and was stepping on her - I threw him about 10 yards ( ninety pound dog??) and not as anger but just to get to her and clear the area. More like what RDY did - except I didnt feel bad about it.

Bongo bob beating on a 16 year old is not right - dont get me wrong. Not even sure what the heck I am saying here but we do need to be the best riders out there to make sure that no one can say squat - ever.

End of rant 2. :AR15firin

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The term is great, especially if you can use it when addressing someone. It leaves em dumbfounded. Public oblivion drives me nuts, I know I'm not perfect, but I try to live in the moment, whcih leads to being more aware of your surroundings, which may lead to hypersensitivity in noticing things or being annoyed by them. Getting better at ignoring it, but some cases just cant be ignored.

Last time I used phyical interaction, got me fired, but the guy had it coming to him. Long story, short. After work baseball game, beers, tailgate, sandwiches, game, new coworker calling me some choice names and getting in my face b/c he couldnt score with some chix and blamed me, asked him to step away about 5 times, he kept coming back, it filled up my "Stamp Book" as I call it, so I cash in, jacked him up, no punches just subdued him and let him go......canned the next day.

Since then, I just remove myself from the situations of impending doom and keep the eyes averted. Not because I' scared, just avoiding altercations. Trouble seemed to find me when I was younger so I walk away now, too much to lose.

D-sub, if you get any Obliviot t-shirts done, I'm in for a couple. Something like "Dont be an........" on the front and "Obliviot" on the back. Funny thing about the shirt, if they are a true obliviot, they wont even notice the shirt and walk right past you without an interest in how the sentence finishes.

L8R

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Okayyyy...

I have survived bringing up two children all the way now to 19 and 21 years old. I have got to tell you, you have to always remain alert and adult and assess things properly. My first response would have been, and on occasion was, to make sure my child was alright, and find out rationally what happened. If either is injured, the first response is care, not revenge.

We as parents have a particular obligation to remain rational. What are you teaching your children (however old they may happen to be) if your response to an incident, however grave, is animal fury.

So that's my take on it, he still needs to reassess his life.

John

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52 year old with a 7 year old daughter - no wonder he's pissed. He'll have to teach her to drive when he's 61. And chaperone her prom at 65? Will he make it for her wedding?

Cut the guy some slack, he might not have even known it was a girl that hit his daughter, and I read bodily contact, not "running over skis". I'm not condoning rage, I have kids too, but it's hard to say he's all bad, maybe just a little over the edge.

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I didn't notice if it said on what trail the incident took place. I assume it was in the beginner/first time area of the Mt. This is the most dangerous place on the hill. Every person there is learning, this means that most can't turn and stop proficently. Slight run ins are common in these areas. Watch an old Warren Miller film for proof. Someone who looses thier head over what appears to be a slight collision needs to be punished. If you are willing to hitting a teenage girl multipule times and threaten her life after the incident you are a disturbed individual. This could also be a sign of a person who would hit their wife and kid. The people who are saying if you were in his shoes you might do the same.......Are you kidding me? Is that how you solve problems in your life? If that is your first instinct you need to rethink what is going on in you head.

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ursle,

Your best bet is not the GM, contact the Risk Manager/ Safety Director or CFO of the resort and if they have sense on what they pay out each year in insurance, they will try to address it internally with management. If you know who carries their insurance, drop them a letter expressing your concern as a customer.

Sounds like the GM is in state of denial or oblivion, which many GM's are because they think it isnt their problem. Ask any resort that has had skier or rider killed by getting whacked with a resort snowmobile what it did to their insurance costs, guaranteed that resort put a little more attention to the overall snowmobile and SnowCat use program with operator training and strict discipline program.

I work in the construction industry on the risk side of things and have had my share of talks with company CEO's as to why their insurance keeps going up each year after killing/maiming someone with one of their ready-mix trucks or dropping an I-beam into live traffic. All I tell him/her, "You keep killin' em, we keep jacking up your rates". After one or two fatalities, it almost always gets their attention. the first one usually works.

What's sad is that it usually takes that one fatality to get their attention and that's one too many in my opinion. Been there too many times.

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let me preface by saying i think it's safe to say the guy has "issues." something ain't right. moving fwd...

slope etiquette seems to be a foreign idea to most resort patrons, at least where I've been to it is. hold on, let's go back a step. common courtesy seems to be a foreign idea to most poeple these days. and to think, some people think NYC is the greatest place on earth- truly frightening IMO.

===

Barry

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ursle,

that's one of the main reasons I won't go to Okemo anymore. No interest in having to avoid snowmobiles in addition to avoiding all of the SPOREs...

I understand losing your temper a little when you think someone has hurt your child - but my first concern would definetly be for my son...and I can't fathom pummeling some kid....

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Unwarranted reaction by the dad imo. There are others that need to think - I saw a boarder fly over the traverse trail (right where the huge orange sign says SLOW) on a run when I was at Copper. I heard a commotion as I was passing and the boarder had hit an older female skiier in the shoulder and she was in bad shape. This of course doesn't necessitate rage or retaliation although I'm sure the boarder is in deep do-do!

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Well as a dad of a 10 and 12 year old, I can say I wouldn't be too thrilled with a collision either and I wouldn't hesitate to tear a strip off some kid. But the girl stopped and was apologising so there's absolutely no excuse for the dad's behaviour.

Plus, look at the guy's picture... dude is swimming in the shallow end of the gene pool.

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