OT: Home Theater tips ?

[willywhit]

New format looks great so here's one to pick the brains of the BOL braintrust.Since the wife started her "little" remodeling of the condo(over a month ago) I've decided to step up "my" room, the basement and command center. The current playroom has an adequate 50" rear projection Toshiba TV(it's gotta go) through the stereo system but far from a 5.1 surround system with a HDTV flat screen set up that I'm planning. I'm doing this on a modest budget and don't plan on sinking 10 grand into a psuedo "home theater". I know the basics ie center channel, sub woofer, passive speakers, etc and my buddy does high end installation stuff for big bucks home theaters and we've scoped out all the cable runs, etc. I'm just wondering what you guys can tell me as I do the research to put together a real surround sound system with a 34-36" flat screen HDTV tube tv.John Gilmour knows alot about this stuff and I'm basically teaching my buddy to kitesurf in exchange for the wiring,etc so ANY tips are really appreciated.

[Jack M]

TV: can't go wrong with Sony. Sony makes a lot of junk, namely their H/T receivers for one, but their TVs are tops.

Decent receiver on a budget: Harmon Kardon. I would pick H/K over Yamaha or Denon. If you can spend a little more look at NAD and Rotel.

Speakers: a friend of mine in the business swears by NHT. Based on his critique, these will be my next speakers. If you need to go cheaper, the Boston Acoustics CR line is a great value. I like them better than Cambridge Soundworks.

I don't know anything about Bose.... Todd?

Subwoofer: you've missed the boat, but THIS would have been killer!!

[Hagen]

It really depends on what your goals are...

...I myself have a Sony receiver and bose speakers together with a rather crappy TV. Works fine for me. But I also know people who prefer to spend big $$$ on just a two speaker setup with seperate pre-amp and power-amp instead of spending the same or less money on a surround setup.

Here is what I would do / look for if my wife would let me shop for a home entertainment system:

- look for a receiver that is in my price range and has all the inputs that I need (e.g. multiple component video inputs, digital audio inputs, enough s-video inputs, may be hdmi...)

- I would probably go with bose speakers again - I like small speakers that you don't notice and that are not in the way yet still sound good

That was the audio part. Now about the TV... ...I would probably go for a DLP rear projection TV right now - good price/quality ratio. I'm not too convinced by the quality / price ratio of current LCD/plasma TVs. Good flat pannels are too expensive, cheap ones don't really have the quality - in my opinion anyway...

Other importent components:

- dvd player: Would probably look for one with hdmi output (if your TV supports it) - all digital connection! I have another requirement - easy hack to enable European DVDs plus PAL to NTSC conversion built in. ...I every so often get DVDs from Germany. I found a Philips DVD player that does all that - just 4 key presses to enable the hack

- TiVo - a must! Would like to buy the DirecTV HD TiVo - but don't have the money right now... ...and would also need an HD ready TV. Also DirecTV will switch their video compression to H.264 for future HD channels - makes sense to wait for that since current boxes won't be able to handle that...

Hagen.

[nekdut]

Bose BLAH!

Read this: BOSE FAQ

[Pat Donnelly]

The HD "tube" we have had for about 7 months is a Sony - 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTVKD-34XBR960 and it offers an excellent picture. If you go this route then I would suggest upgrading your DVD player with Sony's latest HDMI (high def module interface).

Sound - be carfeful on ceiling firing floor speakers if you have a suspended ceiling then the tiles will absorb the sound. The wife's like the little speakers but I say it is hard to beat a set of 42" towers. Check out Costco for their sub-woofers . . . you may want two for extra kick but the wife may not like seeing the pictures on the wall moving when the effects kick in. I bought a KLH (sub-woofer) from Costco a few years ago but the last time I looked they were offering a slightly better product at a reasonable price.

Also, when we went HD we dropped Dish and went back to Comcast so we could get the national networks in HD.

Check out the picture quality during standard (non-HD) broadcasts as the picture quality may not be as good as what you might expect from an HD set.

[willywhit]

It's a pretty small room, 11 by 13 with 8' ceilings so a death star sub might piss off my condo neighbors on both sides.Bose does make some potent tiny cubes that could be almost invisible and we'll tuck in the sub next to the new 92" sofa.I've got some quality speaker wire http://www.tappanwire.com/ and it's supposed to be "way better than monster cable".

[Hagen]

Have to agree with Pat - CRTs are the way to go for picture quality. That is if you can live with the max. 34 or 36" screen size and the overall size and weight of the TV.

...about wires, I started to buy monster cable since I had the money back then. But I'm not sure if I can really hear a difference between different cables... ...and I'm working on audio related stuff for consumer electronics.

But for video (especially analog) the cable can make a big difference. For digital I'm not sure. But then regular hdmi or dvi cables are quite expensive to begin with...

[Jack M]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD. Whenever that happens, the price of HDTV is going to plummet.

My only criticism of sat/sub combinations with the tiny little satellite speakers is that I think they lack good mid-bass. I think a powered sub combined with bookshelf speakers with 5-6" woofers is the ultimate combo that gives you the full spectrum. That is, if you can't do towers.

[Tommy D]

I got a theatre in a box (DAV-FR1) from Sony for xmas last year. It's only a few hundred bucks, and it doesn't sound like the route you want to go.

But, for low budgets, and small rooms, it works fantastic for DVD/digital cable. As Jack said in his last post, the small speakers lack good midrange, but that's only noticeable if I play CD's. But it does everything I need it to do; the only weak link in my setup is the 15 year old 25" TV.

So, it may not sound as good as a setup costing 2-3 grand, but bang for the buck, I'm impressed; sound quality while watching DVD's is very good. Someday, I do want to put together a high-quality component theatre, but I still have snowboarding goodies to buy! :)

[Hagen]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD.

When I started to work on HDTV systems back in '98 the word was that this would have happened by now... It seems that every year it gets pushed out again.

But I agree, once it's mandatory and analog TV gets switched off, DTVs will become much cheaper. ...and it's getting much cheaper already, you can get 26" 16:9 CRTs for about $500 and 32" flat pannels are getting closer to $1000...

[patmoore]

About six months ago I purchased a 52" JVC HD set with HD-ILA technology. It's a projection set that takes the best of DLP and improves on it. When we viewed it in Best Buy against LCD, Plasma, and DLP, it blew away all of them. The price wasn't too prohibitive either. I think I paid about $3500 for it. When friends come over it's fun to watch their reactions when they see the incredible picture. Coupled with DVR, it makes TV viewing fun again.

Check 'em out

[jason_watkins]

TV:

Since you have a deadicated basement room you can darken, consider front projection. The full on movie experience, and surprisingly affordable. projectorcentral.com is a good place to research some options.

Speakers:

A set of something like NHT's SuperZero combined with a good subwoofer can sound excelent. Another safe option would be most of B&W's line, their quality is excelent. Energy is another good brand, and some of their Connesuire line has been for sale online at a fantastic deal lately.

In general I'd suggest you stear away from what Best Buy et all sells, and go listen to some speakers at an independant hifi store. Find what you like, then find the best deal on it online.

Subwoofer:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/ and http://www.hsuresearch.com/ are probibly the best values.

[mnfusion]

I can't comment on HDTV and DVD players that go with it b/c I can't afford them myself, so here's my $.02....

I have owned 3 home theatre systems over the past 10 years. I started with the best, all high end, Krell, etc... Ended up selling b/c I needed money for other things. After owning the best you can buy I have come to this conclusion, spending money does not equal good sound. You need to look at the shape and accoustics of your room. Sometimes speakers that cost $600 sound just as good or better that ones costing $2000 depending on your room.

First thing first, go and listen to as many speaker/amp combos as possible. Everyone hears things different (women hear treble better than men). A Yamaha amp will make one set of speakers sound one way and a Denon amp will make them sound another. DO NOT BUY UNTIL YOU FIND A COMBO YOU LIKE!!!! I can't stress that enough. And don't buy because someone else likes them.

Personally I have a Denon reciever and Definitive Technology Power Monitors with matching center. I don't use rear surrounds anymore. Not really that important to me anymore. I'm saving up for a 15" sub still though. The sub is probably the biggest investment you can make in a home theatre. It creates the 3 dimention sound you want. Even those with sub par speakers can find that just by adding a sub they can solve their sound problem.

Brands I like: Denon and Pioneer Elite. Esp the Poineer Elite. Speaker-wise: Klipsch and Definitive Technology. I swear by the DT now. Best sounding speakers I have ever heard.

As for DVD players, right now I have a $100 sony and it works fine for me. My TV can't use the progressive scan so why spend more for it. Also with the blu wave (I think that is what they are called) disks comming out soon I don't want to invest too much money into a format that may not be compatable with new technology.

There you go. Hope it helps you somewhat. I'm sure there will be those out there that disagree with me, but this is why I said go listen to as many combos as you can. And bring your wife with you even if she could care less about electronics, she hears things you can't.

And one last thing, skip the theatre in a box package. If you are remotely an audiophile in anyway you will be disappointed quickly. Good luck.

Oh yea, and like what was said above, stay away from Best Buy, etc... They know nothing and their stuff is junk IMHO.

[gmarsden]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD. Whenever that happens, the price of HDTV is going to plummet.

.

The 2006 date was dependent on 85% of viewer being switched to DTV, which hasn't happened. Currently they are trying to get a hard Jan 2009 mandated for DTV. There is no mandate for HDTV at all, it is for digital TV and it is because the government wants the low channels (2-6) and high channels (53-69) back so they can sell them for billions to private interests and public safety.

If you are anywhere near a major city (<50 mi), you can pick up digital TV with HDTV in primetime with a UHF antenna and a ATSC tuner, either an external box ($200), or the ATSC tuner built into new TVs.

It is the best picture quality that you can get today and there are no monthly bills.

If you are interested in further information, antennaweb.org gives you an idea of what is available for your area.

- Greg

[Jack M]

Borderboy, you say you had the best that money can buy? So you had a pair of Wilson Grand Slams? Mark Levinson amps? Transparent cables? (or similar stuff) Ceramic cones under everything? Power conditioners? And now you can't afford hdtv and your favorite stuff is Denon and Pioneer?? (I prefer H/K for similar money) You don't run rear speakers but the sub is going to give you 3 dimensional sound? Umm, that all just doesn't jive.

Also, listening to equipment in a store only gets you half way there. Most stores have concrete floors. The wood floor in your home is your passive radiator, a free extra woofer. No equipment is going to sound the same in the store as it will in your house. The best thing to do is to narrow your selection down via research and testimonials to two, maybe three choices of electronics and speakers. Then buy them all from places that have 30 day satisfaction guarantees, set them all up at home and try them out. Just be careful so you can return the stuff you don't want!!

[mnfusion]

(roll eyes here)

Best is a relitive term now isn't it. The majority of movie theatres use Klipsch speakers but yet you fail to mention them. Yes I spent thousands of dollars on audio equipment and went into major debt. I sold all of it to pay it off. and bought less expensive stuff. Most people cannot tell a properly tuned sony or (gasp) pioneer from an amp/reciever from Krell anyways.

Yup, I like the Elite series from Pioneer. It gives great sound for my non-dedicated, angular room I have it in. I don't want or need a room full of ugly audio equipment taking up alot of space. I no longer need fancy equipment to stroke my own ego. I now would rather enjoy the outdoors or other things than sit in front of an expensive HT set-up. I would rather invest my thousands in my retirement and other investments than expensive toys that I can get nearly the same sound or performance from from less expensive equipment.

If you want to get into a pissing match over what 'best' is do it without me. I have better things to do here than that. I simply offered some advise based on experience, 'SPENDING MONEY DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD SOUND'. Get some average stuff, get it tuned to your space by a professional, and that will make more of a difference than spending alot on fancy equipment most can't appreciate anyways.

My $.02. Peace.

[k_t]

There have been a lot of good brand names mentioned in this thread. Some other speaker manufacturers to look at might be Polk Audio and PSB. If you plan on using the system to listen to music on as well, you should not skimp on the front right and left speakers as they are what you will use for listening to music, unless you are the type who thinks that a lot of digital effects are cool. Personally I think that they do more to distort music than enhance it.

When listening to video in surround the two most important speakers are the center channel speaker (dialog makes up over 60% of the sound track of most movies) and the sub woofer for impact or drama from the most subtle things as a car door slamming shut to the heavy sound of a water fall in a scene to the big explosion from a car wreck or bomb going off. That said, the first # in the description of a surround system, i.e. 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 refers to the 5, 6, or 7 full range speakers in the system where the last number, .1, refers to the sub woofer channel. I would not recommend a Bose system over a good speaker system. Using a true sub woofer takes advantage of the better “steering” of the low frequencies in movie sound tracks or broadcast video and adds the needed dynamics of the sound track. I am not saying that Bose is not good; it has a well defined spot for a lot of situations.

Someone mentioned cables. Good video cables are the best upgrade you can do to a middle of the road DVD player when connecting it to a good display. Other cable manufacturers not mentioned that are good are Tributaries and Phoenix Gold. If you change your mind and get stuck on the Idea that you need a flat panel TV, check out the Panasonic 37” HD plasma (TH-37PX50U). Right now it is most likely the best in its class for the dollar spent. Fujitsu and DWIN in a 42” if your budget could handle it would be better. Toshiba and Panasonic both have excellent 34” direct view (CRT) HDTV’s that could save you a couple of hundred that might better go toward nice speakers (the sound is half of the movie experience) or a better surround receiver with ultra wide band component video switching (best for HD) or even HDMI switching. Because you will only need one audio cable for any new video component (optical or coax digital) you might want to get a “better” grade rather than just “good” and if you were doing a high end system you might want to think about the “best”.

Good luck and have fun with it.

kt

[Jack M]

Best is a relitive term now isn't it.

Umm, no. The best is, well, the best.

[trailertrash]

Umm, no. The best is, well, the best.

stand down jack, i think he just meant he had high end stuff a "figure of speech" if you will.

[SWriverstone]

Well, I certainly can't throw stones since I own my fair share of material goods...but I've gotta say I'm amazed at the general popularity of "home theaters" and how much money people spend on 'em.

I did without TV or movies for a long time and...didn't miss 'em one bit! :) Though I enjoy a good movie as much as anyone, I enjoy a good book more...and books always leave a more lasting impression. Lately, I've noticed that no movie I see (regardless of how good) ever stays in my mind longer than a couple days...and many I've already forgotten the second I walk out of the theater. Don't think it's my ADD mentality...but rather the extreme lack of depth.

I've been a professional musician much of my life, and spent years playing in symphony orchestras...and I don't even have a good stereo system! Just as movies pale compared to real life, I find listening to music doesn't even come close to actually playing it.

For me, it's the passive-versus-active participation thing. I'd rather engage my mind than simply be fed. (No "holier-than-thou" attitude intended! :))

Scott

[jdgang]

if you are on a budget then believe it or not those systems in a box are not really that bad. just buy one from a good company. the most important part of the system (if you are going to spend the extra money on) is the speakers and the wires. plus the size of the room is small enough you really dont need anything that big

[Enzo]

What's your actual budget? I was in a similar situation as you several years ago. At the time I was living in a condo with a small living room (like yours) and built a modest HT system for a little over a $1000. I bought a Harmon Kardon AVR510 receiver as an "open box" special at Circuit City. The receiver is very powerful and has more than enough options and inputs. For speakers I purchased Klipsch SB series bookshelfs--SB2's for front, SB1's for surround, and a center (KSC)--all discounted on Ebay. Even though these are Klipsch's "entry-level" speakers which can be found at Best Buy, the sound quality is great. In the condo I didn't own subwoofer because the bookshelfs were quite loud and actually provided some bass for my small room. Also, they kept my neighbors happy! Since moving into my new home last year, I splurged and purchased an SVS sub which drops BOMBS!! If I had this sub in my condo, I would've gone broke paying fines for noise violations from the police.

Since you have a small room and neighbors to contend with you may want to lean towards a high quality set of bookshelfs and surrounds or a complete satellite system. Also, this site helped me out a lot: http://www.audioreview.com/

[MR. JOHN DEERE !]

enzo, i finally got a real power boat. it came down to a 42' outerlimits with 3 502 bravos and a 12' aluminum with a 15hp johnson. i went with the big boy the 12 aluminum.

[Tommy D]

if you are on a budget then believe it or not those systems in a box are not really that bad. just buy one from a good company. the most important part of the system (if you are going to spend the extra money on) is the speakers and the wires. plus the size of the room is small enough you really dont need anything that big

Yeah, what JDGANG said. As I said above, my Sony in a box works great for the room I have, and the budget I had to work with. Movies sound fantastic, but the system falls short for listening to music. Not to mention the fact that I did not want to spend a lot of time researching and matching components, etc. Heck, the weakest link in my home theatre is the TV.

I know I can put together a much nicer setup, but not until I get a nicer house, and a good room to set 'er up in.

[Justin A.]

I can personally reccomend the Creative Labs speakers. www.creative.com I think the model is I-Triuge, or somehting similar. The satellites are very very small, yet they still have incredible power and sound. For such small speakers, they are incredible, for any speaker, they sound damn good. It comes with a modest sub-8", but I think they have and optional 12". And for the amp to set it all up by, there are three names you should give serious consideration to: Harmann Kardon, Bose, and AR (acoustics research). In my opinion, those three make the absolute highest end audio equipment there is, although Im sure others could dispute it. Good luck setting up your theater!

-Justin

Oh, also if cost is no object, see what you can do about using fiber-optic signal lines, they're much smaller than copper, and a fiberoptic cable has much more capacity than a copper wire of similar size.

________

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