snovvman Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Hello, 1) I presume that they will fit into SB series boots, even though they are only equipped on AF series boots? 2) The RAB system seems to only use one spring, responsible for forward lean/flex control/support. On the backward lean, I presume it's simply a stopping point with no spring spport? (As compared to the UPZ/Virus mechanism, which has a spring for forward and a spring for backward). 3) I've read about the modifications made to increase the backward lean travel and reduce the stiffness of the forward lean (by replacing the spring), are there any other functions or benefits to modification? 4) Side question: How do you, those who have had experience w/ UPZ/Virus boots, like their mechanism. The springs seem short, not having much travel, but certainly has more features (two springs, forward lean adjust, etc.). Many thanks! JAMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 James, Yep, you are on the right track. I truly believe that a snowboard hard boot with a spring system is superior. The resistance stays constant during temperature changes and you can tune the feel of the boot with more/less pre-load or even different springs. 1) Yes, stock RABs will fit on any SB/AF boot (except the older SB121). 2) Correct, the RAB does not have a "Rearward" spring and I do find this a short coming. Having a spring force in the rearward direction is VERY beneficial because if anything you need that "give" on the heel side more so then the toe side where you have an ankle to allow for flex forward. 3) In my opinion, currently all the springs systems out there use WAY to short of a spring. Some of the springs I have measured having less then 1/4" travel before going solid. That is not even close to enough. So yes, some of the modification you have seen are intended to use longer springs so you can maintain the spring rate but get a ton more travel before going solid. 4) have not tried these boots so cannot say on feel. However, as nice as it is to see the double spring (rearward and forward) the travel those springs allow for are super short and not as effective as they could be. Good news: we have been testing a Bomber replacement Spring system for the line of Deeluxe boots. It will use very long springs for both the rearward and forward travel and will have the ability to preload them or choose from three different spring rates. It does look a little Robo-Tech but it will be very effective and adjustable. had a couple of sets to test at the SES so people here might have even seen them. Hope to go into production this Fall and have for the winter. Biggest hurdle so far is the springs, they are crazy expensive but they are the type I want to use. Anymore questions let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Oh yea, the guys over at www.Extremecarving.com have some picture on their website of people doing some very cool mods to their current spring systems. Also, do a search here, I have seen some people repost these same pictures here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 Can you quantify "crazy expensive"? Kinda nice to know what we are in for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Hey Fin Was use in powder, resort to back country split board powder situations, a design goal/consideration for this project? Any info would be interesting to hear. How about posting a proto picture for all the junkies checking the forum in June! Thanks Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 springs are great but both of these companies failed to refine them enough on UPZ boots there is just barely enough forward lean this could bother some but for me it works just fine also they don't have much travel Deeluxe RABs have no walk mode, this makes it so when want to walk around I have a limp because I have the lean cranked on the right boot and changing my lean angle is a pain in the ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted June 16, 2005 Report Share Posted June 16, 2005 Here is collection of different spring mods :D Spring pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Jon: the springs are pricy because we need to use what is called a "Die Spring" which is a very high-quality, well designed spring and they tend to be pricy. The over-all cost of the product will be reasonable though. No confirmed pricing at this time. RCrobar: Not so much for the backcountry rider on this one. To be honest the stock 5 position mechanism works great for these types of conditions. This spring system of ours will definitely be more for the "On-Piste" performance rider. However, I suppose with some VERY soft springs, it could be fantastic in the pow. That is the cool thing about this, it will let you try all kinds of combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Will your custom springs work with the SB series (2xx and up) boots like the RABs do? If so, you'll definitely be getting an order from me. I've been using the "powder mode" on my 225's plus careful positioning of the cant mechanisms and booster strap as a poor man's simulation of a double spring system. By positioning the cants just right so that my most comfortable riding stance is at about position 2 on the 5-position adjusters, the booster strap gives me some back and forth rebound - but I bet using springs will make it even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Mike: Yep, this system will pop right into ANY SB or AF series boot by Raichle/Deeluxe. This includes 100/200/300/400 series of the SB line. They all have the same rear configuration. Only the ancient SB121 will it not fit. I am also intrigued to see how this system works for the Off-Piste rider. To be honest we never really tested in those conditions but now that I think about it, no reason it could not make for a better ride in the soft stuff. The soft springs we will be offering are VERY soft and allow for a good amount of travel. And you can adjust the pre-load so you should be able to find the setting that works. Only down side is this system will not have a walk mode, but in its defense it was intended to be a "ride only" performance item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Originally posted by fin I am also intrigued to see how this system works for the Of-Piste rider. I'll definitely try it off-spite as well as on. (If we have a real season this year that is!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark.Andersen Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Mike and Rob: I got the chance to fondle some early prototypes of this new forward lean device while Fin was out in Tahoe for the Splitboard Festival. He asked that I hold my tongue until he made an offical announcement. I think that powder riding will be excellent and much improved with the new spring device. When I ride pow in hardboots, I feel like I need a flex that is somewhere between locked in and free flex. There isn't enough heelside support in walk mode, and there isn't enough toe side flex in fixed mode. The "powder mode" of the 5-position mech on Raichles didn't do it for me as I wanted some progressive rear flex and I tend to ride in a 4 or 5 position (much more upright than Powder mode). At a glance, Fin's new mech appeared to allow for a wide range of forward lean angles and stiffness of spring preload. Perhaps the most appealing part of the design is that it will produce fore/aft flex in a much more natural way than asking the boot to deform to produce flex. As for splitboard use, I think the absence of a walk mode might be a major detractor in uphill mode. However, I've never tried going uphill with out walk mode on so perhaps it isn't really necessary. I do think that for descending in powder, regardless of how you got to the top (lifts, split, bootpack, heli/cat, etc.), these spring devices will be great. Fin, as I said in March, I'd happily sign up to be a test subject for a variety of different usages. :D Cheers! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snovvman Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Thank you for all your reponses. This sounds like an excellent upgrade for the RAB. Fin, will it definitely become available in fhe fall? By the way, this is an excellent source for springs. Century Spring I found at least ten or more varieties (with different rates and characteristics) that fit the Intec heels. I was trying different rates to tune my left heel (goofy) so I can step in easily on the chair. JAMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 If so, sign me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 snovvman: lets say Fall to early Winter just to be safe. Century Spring is a fantastic source, but also check out Raymond Spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Okay...I'm a little behind the curve here. Can someone provide a quick explanation of "RAB" --- for example, what does RAB stand for? And what are the benefits of such a system? Thanks, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 RAB stands for "Raichle Accelerator Box". The overall benefit of using a spring is to give forward and rearward resistance that is much more purer, linear, and controllable then using the deformation of the shells plastic as your spring rate. Every had your current boot feel like a brick on a cold day and a wet-noodle on a warm day? That is the inconsistency of using the plastic as your spring rate. You can also get more travel/movement with springs and it is easy to swap springs to get the feel you want, but not very easy to swap "shells" to get that same feel. More to it than that, but those are the main reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Thanks Fin! (Makes sense.) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.