Soft Booter interested in Hard Booting

[Fox in the Snow]

Hey all,

I was wondering if you could help me out. I've been snowboarding in Minnesota since around 2008, typical soft boot style. I used to dabble in the terrain, but now I just stick to the hills. I would consider myself to be pretty decent to Minnesota standards. Anyways, I am having the urge to try out the hard boot alpine boards. I am not into racing, I just want to carve up the hill and have some fun trying something new. What I am asking for, is some recommended gear set-ups for my area. I am 6 ft 2 in and weigh 200 pounds, I ride the typical hills in Minnesota (groomed, hard packed, sometimes icy), and have been on the board for 14 years. Anything helps, Thanks guys.

 

Edit: I wear a size 11 shoe

Edited March 4, 2022 by Fox in the Snow

[BlueB]

Hi, welcome on board! 

Size 11 means very little for hardboots. Measure your foot in cm (like 28.5) that would be your Mondo size. 

Can you carve clean lines on soft boots already? What board do you have? 

[Pat Donnelly]

 

[Fox in the Snow]

11 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Hi, welcome on board! 

Size 11 means very little for hardboots. Measure your foot in cm (like 28.5) that would be your Mondo size. 

Can you carve clean lines on soft boots already? What board do you have? 

So I measured them out and 28.5 is right. I can carve pretty decent lines already and I'm using a Burton Blunt from around 2016-2017. I would like to look into an Alpine Board

[Wolf]

New alpine snowboard equipment is pricy, like $1500-$2000 or so for a titanal construction board, boots and bindings.  Are you looking for new or used?

Also, do you want a board suited for fairly tight turns, suitable for smaller, crowded hills, or do you have the room for big turns?

[Fox in the Snow]

7 minutes ago, Wolf said:

New alpine snowboard equipment is pricy, like $1500-$2000 or so for a titanal construction board, boots and bindings.  Are you looking for new or used?

Also, do you want a board suited for fairly tight turns, suitable for smaller, crowded hills, or do you have the room for big turns?

I'm thinking of going used equipment, if it makes sense to buy something new I am not afraid to pull the trigger on that. In terms of crowds, I typically ride in the mornings where it is less busy, but should probably go with tighter turns to be on the safe side.

[Mr.E]

Bog standard answer:

Good boots that fit well should be your first purchase. UPZ is a good boot and Dan Yoja (UPZBoots.com) is pretty good about helping folks fit remotely.

Good bindings are your second bet- if buying new (or used, for that matter) F2 Ti Race are the default standard these days, and Bomber, SG and PHK (Phiokka) are all good options.

For a board, look for something decent in the 162-168 ballpark as a first board. It need not be th newest and bestest, but something made after 2000 is a good bet. There are boards on here (including one I'm selling). Something like the F2 GTS would be a good bet. Forgiving, but you are not going to outgrow it any time soon. If you want to jump in with both feet, call Sean at Donek and he can help steer you towards a good beginner package that will last you.

 

Check out the regional forums and see if anyone rides places you want to ride to hook up.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Mr.E

[Fox in the Snow]

@Mr.E Thank you for the info! I will definitely follow up on your suggestions!

[Neil Gendzwill]

If my research is right, the Blunt is a park board with Burton's flying V camber profile, essentially about as far away from a carving board as you can get.  So an alpine rig is going to be a big change for you.

As a start, you could try changing your angles to double forward and see how you feel about that. Try something like +30f, +15r and play around with that.

[Fox in the Snow]

4 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

If my research is right, the Blunt is a park board with Burton's flying V camber profile, essentially about as far away from a carving board as you can get.  So an alpine rig is going to be a big change for you.

As a start, you could try changing your angles to double forward and see how you feel about that. Try something like +30f, +15r and play around with that.

Yep, thats the one haha. Picked it up when I was big into the park, now I enjoy the leisurely ride. As for the advice, I will definitely try that out in a couple days. Appreciated

[bigwavedave]

Where do you ride?

[Fox in the Snow]

@bigwavedaveAfton and Troll are my main two, but usually go to where I can get a deal 

[bigwavedave]

We have a few carvers at Spirit Mt. Russ used to have a few boards to lend or sell, but someone walked off with them.

You might post in the "ride board" section for Afton or Buck. There are a few carvers there and maybe someone has some old gear to help get you started.

Mr.E has given you some good specific guidelines.

If you want to just dip your toes in you could look for a used Donek Incline which is a good carver that can be ridden with either soft or hard boots. There are often some in the for sale section or post in "want to buy". Then find some boots & bindings.

[Wolf]

12 hours ago, Fox in the Snow said:

should probably go with tighter turns to be on the safe side

As Mr.E said, good boots are a must.  UPZ and Deeluxe are the brands you'd most likely find used.  Others will disagree, but I think Raichles are fine too (Raichle became Deeluxe and the molds are still the same).  That's what I use, but you do take the risk that older plastic might get brittle and be prone to breakage.

F2 bindings available from donek.com, and Bomber TD3 bindings from bomberonline.com are good choices.

At 200 lbs, I think a free carve (not race) board around 170 cm is a good all around carver.  The newer ones have fairly small sidecut radii so they can make small radius turns, but the length gives you some stability for wider turns too.  The Donek FC (free carve) Metal and the Coiler Nirvana would both be good choices to look for used.  With your largish feet, I'd suggest around 20cm width.

FWIW, my favorite goto board on short runs in Ohio is my Donek FC 167, 18.5cm wide with size 26 boots.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Wolf

[Corey]

Do you like to go fast or slow? Big arcs or tight ones? That'll help with board selection. 

I was in exactly your shoes a while ago. I never looked back once on a hardboot board! It's just high performance equipment with the sole purpose of turning hard, so it's VERY good at that. It can make the most of a short run. 

@trent - you out there? MN rider who'd probably love some tips!

 

[Fox in the Snow]

@Wolf @bigwavedaveThank you guys for the responses I will definitely be looking into those options as well. 

@Corey I like to have the option of both if that is at all possible. I often hit the slopes with my mom who is a really good skier and it is nice to be able to keep up with her.

[Keenan]

17 hours ago, bigwavedave said:

We have a few carvers at Spirit Mt. Russ used to have a few boards to lend or sell, but someone walked off with them.

You might post in the "ride board" section for Afton or Buck. There are a few carvers there and maybe someone has some old gear to help get you started.

Mr.E has given you some good specific guidelines.

If you want to just dip your toes in you could look for a used Donek Incline which is a good carver that can be ridden with either soft or hard boots. There are often some in the for sale section or post in "want to buy". Then find some boots & bindings.

I have a 175 Incline for sale.  If you are interested PM me.

[bigwavedave]

1 hour ago, Keenan said:

I have a 175 Incline for sale.  If you are interested PM me.

This a little on the long side, but with a sidecut of 10.5m, should be fun. In softboots it will be big turns. Hardboots and it will be perfect. There are better boards for icy conditions, but this should be great in any snow that you can get an edge into and a really great slush slarver and powder carver. Keenan can tell you. A good deal too.

 

[NateW]

My two cents:

Look for a used board with a waist around 20cm. I started with hard boots on a 25cm waist all-mountain board, then 23cm, 21, 19... and finally settled on 19. At the time I was concerned that I'd lose versatility by going too narrow, but that never happened until I tried a 17cm waist. Everyone's preferences will be different but 20cm seems to me like a good place to start.

Sidecut: 10m-13m. It mostly depends how fast you like to ride, and (to a lesser extent) how wide your local trails are. A larger sidecut radius carves better at higher speeds, but at lower speeds it forces you to skid in order to maneuver. 

Stiffness: medium to soft at first. Stiff boards require finesse to maneuver at low speeds, so I'd lean toward getting comfortable with stiff boots and high stance angles first. Unless you like a challenge, in which case go for it - just plan to spend a few runs having fun learning as opposed to having fun snowboarding.

Consider getting used gear from the classifieds here. If you decide you'd rather stick with soft boots, you can probably resell for close to what you paid.

Edited March 6, 2022 by NateW

[Fox in the Snow]

1 hour ago, bigwavedave said:

This a little on the long side, but with a sidecut of 10.5m, should be fun.

 

So the length wouldn't be an issue as a starter hard boot board? it definitely seems like a good price

@NateW Thank you for the insight! 

[philw]

Another approach is to simply ride a suitable standard "soft boot" board with hard boots & bindings. That's what I do - I have a Burton Hometown hero which rips hardpack almost as well as my Kessler SL. I don't do the "diving for the snow" thing, but I can crank that little sucker harder than most pretty easily.

It's more of a European approach I guess, but, well. As per some videos here, people on soft boots can carve soft boot boards hard... so it should be no surprise that when you take similar boards and put hard boots on them, you can really rip.

<dons flame proof suit and runs for cover>

[bigwavedave]

2 hours ago, Fox in the Snow said:

So the length wouldn't be an issue as a starter hard boot board? it definitely seems like a good price

It might be a handful, especially in softboots. A 164 or 168 Incline would be better. 

[Fox in the Snow]

@bigwavedave Appreciate it, just made a post in WTB for a good set of hard boots. We'll start with those and go from there

[NateW]

6 hours ago, philw said:

Another approach is to simply ride a suitable standard "soft boot" board with hard boots & bindings.

I should have thought of that, because that's how I started.  

45/30 angles if I remember right. It works. It just gets better (IMO) as you narrower boards and steeper angles. Stiff boots, high angles, skinny boards, they all work great together.

Also, boots get WAY more comfortable with custom liners (molded to your feet and boots) and custom foot-beds (also molded) and maybe shell modifications from a good boot fitter. Any ski boot fitter should be able to work with snowboard hard boots, they're basically the same thing. It can be expensive so I wouldn't suggest it right off the bat, but it's something to keep in mind.

UPZ boots are wider across the toes than Raichle/Deelux. I used to get weird foot pain on steep mogul runs that I couldn't figure out for years... turned out I just needed a little bit wider boot.