nuisanceIV Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Hey guys, I'm looking for a bit of help by those more experienced in alpine stances than I. I'm finding i get some pain on the sides of my knees when using forward stances, usually a day after riding. What could be going wrong? I usually night ski, so there'll be some bumps here and there. I usually just go right over them or skid around them, sometimes i can carve around them, if they're not super bad. I'm looking to get better at using hardboots, but issues like this will slow progression greatly. Any ideas/advice to prevent knee problems? I'm 22 so I want to keep my knees for awhile. I would like to avoid a brace/sleeve if possible. I'm thinking it's a muscle imbalance/flexibility issue. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Not sure what angles you run, but some binding cant may help. @SunSurfer just did a neat video to explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Video of riding? Any board, binding, boot info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I'm still trying to figure that out. I had them too low, and it caused toedrag and therefore I was releasing. So I went up to around 50ish degrees +/- 5 so theres no possible overhang. I'll watch that video and post the exact angles when I get home and have access to my protractor. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Might be worth you running through the set up guide from @Beckmann AG too - it's really helpful to get all initial adjustments in the ballpark. http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 There's also this: http://alpinesnowboarder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/canting-and-lift.pdf Sounds like you might also be hanging your butt off to the side of the board and rotating your hips sideways on heelside, which is common for beginner hardbooters. If so, you gotta get over this, you're not softbooting anymore. More on this here: http://alpinesnowboarder.com/separate-the-knees/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 I'll provide some info now that I am home and have a protractor. The board is a Palmer Channel Titanium, a BX board. My bindings are burton race plates and boots are burton shadows. I am having some issues toying with the lean on the boots, it seems one has more flex than the other, specifically the front boot. I also did multiple measurements, looks like my angles were off from what I originally measured. I was running +45, +33. Besides preventing toe drag, should I keep angles much closer than I would with softboots? Thanks for the links, finding info about this is a bit harder than softboot info. Pics of setup provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 One of the ASB members put this helpful video on YouTube about basic binding angles. It explicitly doesn't cover lift and cant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 My knees would hurt if I were just carving at those angles, I'm sure. For all mountain and powder riding is a different story. But I don't feel like those angles are for a full day of carving in hardboots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 20 hours ago, nuisanceIV said: I'm thinking it's a muscle imbalance/flexibility issue. Any ideas? Depends on the nature of the discomfort. If it's simple muscle soreness, that's one thing. If it's incipient tendonitis, that's another. If it's deeper into the joint structure, that's yet another. Any history of knee or muscle issues from other activities? It sounds like your setup is not 'neutral' and that has your body fighting itself in the quest for 'in the moment' stability while riding. BTW, nice heel lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: Any history of knee or muscle issues from other activities? [....] It sounds like your setup is not 'neutral' and that has your body fighting itself Not really, and if I do, it stems from something obvious like bad form when lifting. I have noticed when doing but kickers to warm up my left leg cant kick my butt anymore. Yet, I can touch my toes more easily than ever these days. And yeah, I noticed unless I'm bombing the hill and doing more slow, narrow(basically really drawing things out when changing edges back n forth) or just carving across the hill back and forth, I feel like I'm fighting myself to manipulate my board. Edited January 8, 2019 by nuisanceIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted January 11, 2019 Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 I had knee pain due to improper lift/ cant. It sounds like you are on the path of evaluating this and angles which when done can make a huge difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 This thread is mislabeled, it's not knee proctection needed, it's setup advice. The knees are protesting because of the setup. But for knee protection think sixsixone 3do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibrussell Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 Where is the pain? Outside/inside of front/back or both knees. I had pain on the outside of both knees (mostly front) when I was running 55/50. I moved to 60/55 and it helped, kept going to 66/60 and now no pain. It felt like I was straining the front knee as I rotated the upper body on my heel turns. From your pic look like rear boot drag. put rear boot 5 deg less than front then tilt board to see if will still boot out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, ibrussell said: Where is the pain? Outside/inside of front/back or both knees. I had pain on the outside of both knees (mostly front) when I was running 55/50. I moved to 60/55 and it helped, kept going to 66/60 and now no pain. It felt like I was straining the front knee as I rotated the upper body on my heel turns. From your pic look like rear boot drag. put rear boot 5 deg less than front then tilt board to see if will still boot out I like what you got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibrussell Posted January 12, 2019 Report Share Posted January 12, 2019 You also say your fighting the board. Board not wanting to start /keep/finish the turn? When I get a new board I start front binding in middle set of holes(board & binding) try it (do C-turns) then move binding. Then move binding forward one set of holes on same board holes try it then move binding forward on board with binding moved back to center or rear holes, repeat this until the board starts to hook, then I back off the binding 1-2 holes. If your heel turns start to chatter go a deg or two on the rear binding. Good luck Keep us informed if anything helps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/11/2019 at 6:29 PM, ursle said: This thread is mislabeled, it's not knee proctection needed, it's setup advice. My bad. I was originally thinking it was a fitness issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 On 1/7/2019 at 6:12 PM, Lurch said: Might be worth you running through the set up guide from @Beckmann AG too - it's really helpful to get all initial adjustments in the ballpark. http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration Your answers are behind the link @Lurch provided. Get a tea and read it beginning to end then follow the setup. You will be, and your knees will too, in a nice place to start experimenting. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) Read the guides linked, they helped a lot. Using boots and bindings made in the 21st century helped a lot, my joints no longer ache from bumps; before it was like driving a car w/o suspension. Anyways, these TD3s I got had 3° of cant. Using that on my rear foot helped tremendously, and it helps to keep my knee out. I'm unsure what to do with the other 3° cant plate on my front binding, so atm I thought it could act as a "toe lift", will fiddle with. No issues so far. Moving my bindings out a bit helped a lot too. Widening out the stance helped too, made the board less "boat-like", so I didn't have to huck myself around to do small turns. Now my issues are boot fitting(shin bang) related and getting a nice 50:50 toeside to heelside leverage, since my toeside leverage definitely feels stronger than heelside, UPZ heel is confusing since it goes in so much near where the heel bail latches. But I think I'll have figure that out as soon as this snow storm passes Thanks for the help everyone! It helped tremendously! Edited January 20, 2019 by nuisanceIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 4 hours ago, nuisanceIV said: Now my issues are boot fitting(shin bang) related http://www.manoove.com/shintronic.pp You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 5 hours ago, nuisanceIV said: UPZ heel is confusing since it goes in so much near where the heel bail latches.! There is a tick on the bottom of the boot to identify the middle of the boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 20, 2019 Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, nuisanceIV said: Now my issues are boot fitting(shin bang) related and getting a nice 50:50 toeside to heelside leverage, since my toeside leverage definitely feels stronger than heelside, Front shin, rear shin, both shins? Your perception of unequal leverage might suggest part of the problem. If you've 'upgraded' to UPzed boots, you should probably find yourself a 6 degree base ring. Might come in handy. Edited January 20, 2019 by Beckmann AG Work/time of suggestion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuisanceIV Posted January 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) @Beckmann AG Both shins. It seems once those FLO liners "formed" to my feet, it got bad. In all the rental ski boots at my work I get heel lift and shin movement; I'll visit the boot fitter and continue to play with my bindings. The boots are 26.5 and I'm a 27.5 Why the 6 degree cant disk? Edited January 22, 2019 by nuisanceIV Clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) UPZ RC series boots have a relatively steep zeppa angle, i.e. the slope of the part of the boot the sole of your foot/custom orthotic ideally rests on. I recently measured the difference in boot sole thickness between the heel and toe of my mondo 29 UPZ RC10s, 2016 model. The effective slope over the sole length of the boot allowing for the Intec heels I use was almost exactly 6 degrees. Edited January 23, 2019 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, nuisanceIV said: @Beckmann AG Both shins. It seems once those FLO liners "formed" to my feet, it got bad. In all the rental ski boots at my work I get heel lift and shin movement; I'll visit the boot fitter and continue to play with my bindings. The boots are 26.5 and I'm a 27.5 Why the 6 degree cant disk? Flo liners don't have a great deal of volume around the shin iirc. Do you have a gap between your liner and shin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.