How does anybody survive more than a couple days on an SL board?!?

[jim_s]

LoL, just found a picture of the board - it was a G6. Had almost identical bindings, though I think mine were SnoPro.

 

Good times!!

Edited January 22, 2018 by jim_s

[nils]

I know how you can survive two days on those boards: it's called youth :)

 

[Erik J]

26 minutes ago, nils said:

I know how you can survive two days on those boards: it's called youth :)

 

I don' think that's true. I bought a box of youth from eBay and it did nothing for me. Perhaps it expired.

[Tanglefoot]

Mrs. Tanglefoot and I watched st_lupo's first run on the Kessler from the cafe while enjoying a latte and a cinnamon roll.

We would pay good money to see it again

[Keyser Soze]

Just give it some time, you'll get used to it. I was riding an SG 162 SL I got from Big Canuck, and I believe he's a bigger guy than I am. It was my first metal board and I certainly felt like I was in over my head, but after putting in some consistent riding, I could make it do what I wanted and loved the damn thing.

I've only relegated it to back-up-board after picking up a 162 Kessler from Michael Lambert on a killer deal when he retired after the Sochi Olympics. I rode it a bit at the end of the season and then haven't been able to get out over the last two winters. I felt a bit like you, the speed is scary, and no doubt amplified by the fact that it was built for an Olympic rider who is about the same size as my weekend-warrior ass.

I've only been out a couple of times this winter and definitely felt like it was too much board for me after three runs, but started to have fun after that and have no doubt I'll stop skidding off speed once I get the rust of inactivity off.

Side-note, part of that amazing deal included an APEX V2 plate, and I have to say, that thing is like cheating. I'd usually start to feel my thighs burning up after 5-6 runs, but I can ride all day on a plate without wanting to quit. Mind you, I'm not recommending you strap on an expensive isolation plate; I think snow-feel is crucial to improving your riding and I went for years without one. That said, when you tame the beast, it's something to think about.

[st_lupo]

Thanks for all of the great feedback!  Yeah, I was pretty sure the board wasn't going to be a casual cruiser when I opted in.  I definitely wanted some contrast to my Nirvanas.  I can't wait to get back on that 162 but all of this damn white fluffy stuff keeps falling out of the sky and the local hill is way to soft.  This friday is looking promising though, that'll be the second day on the 162... yikes!

What I really enjoy about the board was how it helps me to start achieving a couple of things that have really been my goal since last season: getting consistent cross-under transitions and experiencing that "pop" that everybody talks about.  I think most of that is just a by product of the physics involving the SL board's rapid fire turns and inertia of my upper body, but tonight I was definitely nailing cross-under turns on my NFC Energy the whole night.

What I think is going to be pretty difficult is to minimize counter rotation and doing any kind of post-turn analysis.  Things just happen so fast its hard to notice all the small things that go wrong.  Gross errors show up pretty immediately, for example if I get my weight too far forward on the board, the back of the edge won't hookup and I wind up drifting the turns, or worst case, spinning out.  On an interesting note, to me it felt like the hookup on the very first turn of each run was slightly more vague than what I'm used to on my Energy.  But once I got that first carve going...

Corey:  Regarding your suggestion to try riding it a little slower... (and I mean the following seriously), How?  Is it primarily selecting a less steep run or is there technique?  The run that I was practicing on is definitely not the shallowest that we have locally, but there is rarely anybody on it (unless there is slalom training), and I know it better than the other runs.  And like you mentioned the board winds up transitioning and turning before I even think about it.  I might be thinking J-turns, but the boards is like phhhhtt, yeah right.

And Tanglefoot:  how much good money are we talking?

Edited January 23, 2018 by st_lupo

[Corey]

34 minutes ago, st_lupo said:

Corey:  Regarding your suggestion to try riding it a little slower... (and I mean the following seriously), How?  Is it primarily selecting a less steep run or is there technique?  The run that I was practicing on is definitely not the shallowest that we have locally, but there is rarely anybody on it (unless there is slalom training), and I know it better than the other runs.  And like you mentioned the board winds up transitioning and turning before I even think about it.  I might be thinking J-turns, but the boards is like phhhhtt, yeah right.

Love your writing style, well done!  

You have it correct - finish those turns.  It takes a bit of focus to wrap a modern race board across the hill, but it's very doable.  Just keep your weight towards the front/middle a little longer to delay the edge change.  It may take a bit, but ultimately you want to control the turn radius and the path.  You're the boss!  Maybe not yet, but you will be.  

[Rusty Edges]

"You're the boss!  Maybe not yet, but you will be..." (Corey)

That is the best explanation I have seen on learning to ride a Competition Level slalom board. 

Stick with it Lupo.  I second the middle to slightly forward weight to make the shovel of the board bite a little harder to reduce speed, but be careful it doesn't bite back  (See Jasey-Jay video elsewhere on the site.  OUCH!!!).  The end result of being able to control such a beast is worth it.

Trenches for All!

[Beckmann AG]

For speed control,  it's a good idea for the board to finish a turn, but that doesn't mean the rest of you has to go on the exact same trip.

I.e., when the sidecuts get smaller, and the boards get snappy, ensure that your feet take a longer path down the hill than your core.

Ride a little looser from the hips down, avoid pressure spikes, and use a light touch with your feet.

 

This guy kinda sucks, but you get the idea. FYI, he's not parked on the front of those things.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Beckmann AG

[bigwavedave]

18 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

...but that doesn't mean the rest of you has to go on the exact same trip.

...ensure that your feet take a longer path down the hill than your core.

Great description! That's just what it feels like

[RobertAlexander]

Hang in there and keep riding,  At the beginning of the year riding the MK,  Turn myself into a Zombie, Barely able to walk from my car to the house at end of day,, and just crawl into bed to recover at 6pm., waking up the next day, and still barely able to walk, slowly get to the hill anyway,  loosen up, and OK lets do this again. Repeat, repeat...   Once you get in shape/conditioned, piece of cake. The first few weeks are rough.    Some times ask myself, why am I doing this,  but then say ok, I know why, when its time to start making carves with the MK. 

[st_lupo]

10 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

For speed control,  it's a good idea for the board to finish a turn, but that doesn't mean the rest of you has to go on the exact same trip.

I.e., when the sidecuts get smaller, and the boards get snappy, ensure that your feet take a longer path down the hill than your core.

Ride a little looser from the hips down, avoid pressure spikes, and use a light touch with your feet.

 

This guy kinda sucks, but you get the idea. FYI, he's not parked on the front of those things.

 

 

Yeah Hirscher... I definitely don't want to learn bad habits from him!   You don't happen to have any videos of Kristoffersen instead?  

 

I'm actually really glad you brought up the point about the feet and the core following different paths as I was planning on asking this but wasn't really sure how to describe it.  

[lonbordin]

This whole thread got me so stoked I setup an old SL board with prodigious camber that I bought off BOL yet have never used.

I eagerly await the next period of firm snow which seems like it might be sometime! 

Edited January 24, 2018 by lonbordin
So tiny...

[Beckmann AG]

3 hours ago, st_lupo said:

You don't happen to have any videos of Kristoffersen instead?

I coulda, but

1. Pushing your buttons, and

2. Hirscher is more refined, in both technique and demeanor. Kristoffersen is given to bouts of emotion, and if you do likewise on the Kessler, the board will sense that weakness and take full advantage.

Not what you want. At all.

39 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

I setup an old SL board with prodigious camber

Try a regular clamp on the front foot. SW will soak up some ankle movement, and that might lead to 'The Troubles'.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Beckmann AG
^That's what he said...

[lonbordin]

21 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

Try a regular clamp on the front foot. SW will soak up some ankle movement, and that might lead to 'The Troubles'.

Whatever happened to good ole' fashioned Doctor patient confidentiality?!  No one wants to hear about my troubles.               

 

Standard binder... hmmmnnn. I'm going to have to look in the room of requirement, I might have sold all those after the great theft. I might have to choose between SWs (with new blue pads) vs F2 Race Carves. I'll carpet carve and see which one is laterally stiffer. 

[Corey]

Look at the binding setback difference between those two boards!  Wow. 

Have fun!  

[lonbordin]

 

17 minutes ago, Corey said:

Look at the binding setback difference between those two boards!  Wow.  

I had Bruce put the "powder nose" on the Nirvana so that adds visual and literal length to the board.  I'm centered on the inserts on the Nirvana. On the F2 I'm as wide as the inserts and bindings allow and it's still a little smaller than my typical stance width but still centered on the inserts.  Definitely different generations of boards!

Edited January 24, 2018 by lonbordin
Powder nose keeps the Paoli slush off my board...

[Beckmann AG]

46 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

Standard binder... hmmmnnn. I'm going to have to look in the room of requirement, I might have sold all those after the great theft. I might have to choose between SWs (with new blue pads) vs F2 Race Carves. I'll carpet carve and see which one is laterally stiffer. 

Jam a few dimes under the pads to preload/stiffen the elastomers. Then you'll at least have some change to call for help.

[Corey]

LOL at the dimes!  

I'd just ride it as is.  It's not like it's a different sport.  It's just more sensitive to edge angle.  

[Erik J]

Try a little steeper section and let the board turn a longer than you think you should. Let it arc uphill a little. That should scrub speed pretty quick. Keep your head looking into the turn to let the board follow then flick that board under you for then next one. Hell, don't even transition to the next turn for a few. Just practice feeding the board fully through the turn. Scrub all your speed off as a practice run a few times.

Fast transitions help. I suck my knees into my chest for the next turn. I force the transition to happen as fast as possible.

[Beckmann AG]

1 hour ago, Corey said:

LOL at the dimes!  

I'd just ride it as is.  It's not like it's a different sport.  It's just more sensitive to edge angle. 

And your racecar is configured and operated exactly the same as your daily, on account of them both being 'automobiles'?

Greater response requires finer inputs, and finer inputs suggest a lack of goo, especially at the front end. 

[workshop7]

On 1/22/2018 at 11:28 AM, jim_s said:

LoL, just found a picture of the board - it was a G6. Had almost identical bindings, though I think mine were SnoPro.

 

Good times!!

This was my first board in 1990.  I don’t remember it being stiff though.  It was kind of a noodle.

[Corey]

10 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

And your racecar is configured and operated exactly the same as your daily, on account of them both being 'automobiles'?

Greater response requires finer inputs, and finer inputs suggest a lack of goo, especially at the front end. 

Nope, but that analogy doesn't hold well due to the vast difference in the planned usage. When I'm teaching driving, I'll hop from dedicated racecar to 1992 Toyota econobox to 2018 Corvette Z06 in the span of 30 minutes on the same race track. The basics are still the same, but you adapt to the peculiarities of the vehicle you are in within a couple of turns. As the instructor, my job is to demonstrate proper techniques in whatever vehicle/setup the student brought. 

Let's agree to disagree about boot/binding setup theory. Some like loose, some like controlled flex, some like rigidity. I don't think any one is flat-out wrong, but one scheme likely works better for each person. Try them all and see which one is more fun (or best performance, depending on your goals) for you. I recommend starting with the simplest option first. Then add complexity later if you want. 

[jim_s]

6 minutes ago, workshop7 said:

This was my first board in 1990.  I don’t remember it being stiff though.  It was kind of a noodle.

Well, its been a long time, but compared to a Gnu softboot board that I'd previously beat myself up on for several days (and then swore I'd never ride another snowboard as long as I lived, LoL :-), the G6 was seriously stiff at the time! (Its been so long, I couldn't begin to compare it to my latest board, but I'd lay odds that you're right - it probably would be noodly compared even to the MK, much less to a modern GS board...)

Edited January 24, 2018 by jim_s

[Corey]

1 hour ago, Corey said:

LOL at the dimes!  

@Beckmann AG, I now realize the above could be taken as being disparaging - not my intent! I legitimately laughed at the comment that you'd also have spare change to make a phone call for help. Sorry for not being clear.