Newbie seeking input.

[Mouse]

Hi all;

I've been riding since 1994 when my younger sister introduced me boarding. While she quit and went back to skiing I really took to  boarding. I have never been a park boarder, can't do air worth a damn, I do love ripping groomers, riding gladed runs, soft mogul runs (Whistlers "Jimmys Joker") are a blast. At present I ride soft gear but over the last few years I have found that I'm over powering my boots (Burton Driver X) and have been considering going Hard boot and bindings. What has held me back is that where I live (Banff Alberta area) Hard booters are rare, I've only seen 2 or 3 and any chance of talking to one has been fleeting. ie sighted, woooosh, gone. Plus no one sells or carries hard gear here, that I know of.  So here are a couple of immediate questions I have which I hope someone can answer. Before choosing a boot to purchase on line should I see a good ski boot fitter and get an assessment of what my feet will need for boot shape and size? and What is the stiffness difference between a stiff soft boot (Burton Driver x) and a soft hard boot (Deelux Track 225)?

Thanks

[breeseomatic]

First, welcome to Bomber!

If you kind of know your foor shape, then that's all you really need to know.  If you have a narrow heel and wider fore-foot, go with Deeluxe 700.  If your foot is more of a straight width from heel to toe, then go with Deluxe 225/325/425.  As far as stiffness, you don't need a stiff boot forward to back as your binding angles will be steep in relation to your soft boot angles.  Most of the pressure to the edges will come from the side of the boot cuffs and almost any hard boot will be stiffer than the most hard core lace-up boots in that direction.

UPZ boots are an option too as well as Head.  Head is discontinued and they are really really heavy, UPZ can be an option if you have a narrow heel cup and wide fore foot.  They have a different toe block design which can add stress to the boot and the toe blocks need to be t-nutted to the bottom of the shell for a secure fit.

If you buy used boots, buy new liners.  I really like the new Deluxe liners, they have stiffer foam and have much better support compared to the cheaper/older design.  A custom footbed is also "mandataroy", well maybe not a full on custom one.  Please throw out the crappy foam foot bed and put at least a SuperFeet insole that is comisurate with your foot volume.  A SuperFeet is like 50x better than the crappy foam ones.  A custom one is 2x better, than the SuperFeet.

When you look for bindings, just find some Burton Race, Ibex, Speed TC or whatever inexpensive binding with some flex to them and mount those on your existing board to get the feel of it.  After you master your setup and you are over riding your board and realize that the geometry of the board is not conducive to your style of riding, then you can find a good used board here.

On the flip side of hard boots, if you are looking for soft boot carving, you could spend some money on a wide Donek snowboard.  I've spent some time on one with a duck stance and it carved amazingly well, like butt scraping heel side good.  I'll probably be on a wide board and soft boots for a majority of next season.

 

[Neil Gendzwill]

You are me. What you want is a softer hard boot and an all-mountain board with a wider waist that will let you run lower angles. There are probably 15 people or so that ride in the Calgary area. Allie is one of them: she posts here often and can probably connect you with the crew. Riceball is the ringleader but doesn't post here much. Most years he organizes the Nakiska Expression Session the 2nd weekend of January. This is your chance to borrow gear, get some tips and drink some beers. I come out every year from Saskatoon and Corey makes the trip from Winnipeg. 

[Mouse]

Thanks Breeseomatic, I am definitly  in the narrow heel wide fore foot (E) group and will need custom foot beds because of high arches. I see that YYC in Toronto have the Deelux boots so 700's will likely be the way I to go. As there are different types of liners listed for Deelux boots any suggestions.  I was already planning to get a new board for next season and have read nice things about Donek boards although because  I have family in Whistler I have been able to do the Prior factory tour and was considering an MFR or custom width 4WD board from them.

Thanks Neil, I have seen a couple of hard booters at Nakiska in the past but have never been able to catch them. Yes  I will be going with a Freeride board because of size 11 feet and after a couple of years of trying different angles my most comfortable  settings are  15 Front 10 Rear.  I'll keep in touch on this forum so I can possibly hook up next season.

Thanks again Guys

Mouse

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you are thinking custom look into Coiler. Fantastic boards made in Canada and cheaper than Prior. 

[BlueB]

Yes, Coiler is great value, especially if going new/custom. If prior has an ATV of the rack, that could be a nice allround option too. 

If your heel is quite narrow, I'd strongly recommend UPZ over Deluxe. I could never get any model of Deluxe/Raichle to hold my heels. 

Are you intending to ride 15/10 angles on hard boots? While it is doable, the hard boots shine at higher angles, like 45/30 for all-mountain riding and over 50 for just carving... 

[SunSurfer]

I'd second the comment about narrow heels and preferring UPZ having tried Deeluxe. UPZ in Canada may still have their off season sale on.

[queequeg]

With your foot shape, go with UPZ. You may need to punch for width/6th toe (as I do) in the front but that's not a big deal.

Edited June 13, 2017 by queequeg

[dredman]

2 hours ago, queequeg said:

With your foot shape, go with UPZ. You may need to punch for width/6th toe (as I do) in the front but that's not a big deal.

Six Toe Jose?

Sorry to hijack thread.

[queequeg]

51 minutes ago, dredman said:

Six Toe Jose?

Sorry to hijack thread.

When you've known me as long as I have, you just call me "six-toe Joe".

Edited June 14, 2017 by queequeg

[Mouse]

23 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

If you are thinking custom look into Coiler. Fantastic boards made in Canada and cheaper than Prior. 

Thanks Neil I'll check them out.

[Mouse]

23 hours ago, BlueB said:

 Hi BlueB:

If your heel is quite narrow, I'd strongly recommend UPZ over Deluxe. I could never get any model of Deluxe/Raichle to hold my heels. 

Well that"s a tough question. What is considered as quite narrow?

 

Are you intending to ride 15/10 angles on hard boots? While it is doable, the hard boots shine at higher angles, like 45/30 for all-mountain riding and over 50 for just carving... 

Yes, to start with. I did do 25/30 in soft boots for a while but found I had better board control at 15/10.

 

[Mouse]

20 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

I'd second the comment about narrow heels and preferring UPZ having tried Deeluxe. UPZ in Canada may still have their off season sale on.

They do but only  RC10 boots left and I think they maybe overkill for a beginner.

[SunSurfer]

A contrary view would be that for anyone to carve well, good heel hold down is essential, and the appropriate shell shape and buckle configuration for the individuals foot shape is crucial to achieving that.

[alpinegirl]

Mouse, as far as angles go, bring a tool!

Nothing is written in stone. However, there is a tendency to feel better able to pressure a boards edge when our toes and heels are on the appropriate edge. 15/10 may give you massive overhang. I ride softies ducked out and hardboots however they happen to fit on the board. 15-21front, -6 to -12 rear softies,  and 55-63 front, 35-55 rear in hardboots.

I used to ride with higher angles in softies. Whenever I have tried this for giggles it has been an unpleasant experience since that time. That is just me personally.

So play away and screw around. Read Jack's article on binding set up and get started.

[BlueB]

2 hours ago, Mouse said:

Well that"s a tough question. What is considered as quite narrow?

Yes, to start with. I did do 25/30 in soft boots for a while but found I had better board control at 15/10.

Heel visibly narrower then ankle and mid foot, is quite narrow. 

You'll find hard boots easy at angles higher then your softy angles. With softies, you loose the support of highbacks, while the hard boots are really responsive side to side. I can ride hard boots at any angle, even at "duck", but I like them the most at about 45, on a board of appropriate width. 

As someone above said, you need to be able to ride various angles if you wanted boards of various widths. If you want a specific angle, than you need a board that's wide enough (or narrow enough) for the given angle. 

RC10 is an awesome boot. You can fine tune the flex by swapping the tongues and tuning the springs. 

[barryj]

Hey Mouse

Welcome to the forum!

FYI: I tried the Driver X and the  Deluxe 225 was softer!     I'd go 325 or higher.....and ditto for using higher angles closer to 50

Also I am a size 11 1/2 and wear a size 10 (Mondo 28) for carving......you want it SNUG!  

[Mouse]

On 2017-06-13 at 9:09 PM, BlueB said:

Heel visibly narrower then ankle and mid foot, is quite narrow. 

Ok, well that's definitly my feet.

RC10 is an awesome boot. You can fine tune the flex by swapping the tongues and tuning the springs. 

AH, good to know and they are on sale with the guy in BC and he has my size.

Mouse

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Mouse

[Mouse]

On 2017-06-13 at 7:05 PM, alpinegirl said:

Mouse, as far as angles go, bring a tool!

Nothing is written in stone. However, there is a tendency to feel better able to pressure a boards edge when our toes and heels are on the appropriate edge. 15/10 may give you massive overhang. I ride softies ducked out and hardboots however they happen to fit on the board. 15-21front, -6 to -12 rear softies,  and 55-63 front, 35-55 rear in hardboots.

I used to ride with higher angles in softies. Whenever I have tried this for giggles it has been an unpleasant experience since that time. That is just me personally.

So play away and screw around. Read Jack's article on binding set up and get started.

I always have a tool as I'm always playing with my angles trying to find that 1 setting that could be my sweet spot.

Mouse

I

Edited June 16, 2017 by Mouse

[Mouse]

On 2017-06-14 at 4:46 AM, barryj said:

Hey Mouse

Welcome to the forum!

FYI: I tried the Driver X and the  Deluxe 225 was softer!     I'd go 325 or higher.....and ditto for using higher angles closer to 50

Also I am a size 11 1/2 and wear a size 10 (Mondo 28) for carving......you want it SNUG!  

Hi Barryj.

I'm a size 11 so by my Mondo chart a 28 performance fit or 29 comfort fit. As I will need foot beds (high arches) I'll likely  go 29 I think that the footbeds will make them snug.

Mouse

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Mouse

[Jonny]

The worst mistake you can make is also the most common - shells which are too loose. You really want almost no room for the liner if you're going to ride with aggression. When you pull the liner and put your bare foot in the shell you want to be able to slide one finger down behind your heel, but not two. Almost any other fault can be repaired by a good fitter, even a bad buckle location isn't insoluble. FWIW I wear size 11.5EEEE street shoes, and my 700 shells are size 27. So were my 325s, which worked pretty well also. Boosterstraps on both. I have a very wide forefoot, very high arch (cork insoles) and big shin and calf muscles.

I ride narrow boards but even on ATV type boards I think you'll quickly find that 45° is the lowest you'll want. Higher angles just give such  amazing precision and power heel side that it's addictive.

[BlueB]

38 minutes ago, Mouse said:

 

I'm a size 11 so by my Mondo chart a 28 performance fit or 29 comfort fit. As I will need foot beds (high arches) I'll likely  go 29 I think that the footbeds will make them snug.

Hey, don't make a mistake of trying to figure out your Mondo by conversion from street size 11! You need to physically measure your feet in cm. Step barefoot against wall, on hard floor, Mark your longest toe and measure the distance in cm - that's your Mondo point size. If it's under 28, you need 27-27.5 shell. 

Supportive footbeds help you fit into smaller boits, not fill in bigger ones! 

Please don't make a mistake of going too big, you'll have hard time and it might even lead to an injury. 

[Mouse]

Thanks Jonny and BlueB;

 I'm going to consult a boot fitter tomorrow before I order boots just so I'm sure I get the right size.

On another note anyone using or have used Carve Company Speed TC bindings (thanks Breesomatic) with UPZ boots? Any issues?

Mouse

[charliechocolate]

3 minutes ago, Mouse said:

On another note anyone using or have used Carve Company Speed TC bindings (thanks Breesomatic) with UPZ boots? Any issues?

I think those bindings are made from the same mould as the old Burton plates. If so, expect some slop between the toe ledge and the front bail. It's probably tolerable if you're not racing.

[Neil Gendzwill]

As you are in Canada, check into yyzcanuck.com. They carry F2 bindings and Deekuxe boots. I ride and recommend the F2 Titanflex for all-mountain.