Thermo liner fitting

[J0hn]

Hi all

 

I wear UPZ boots. I had been using  thermo liners,  but they packed out. I replaced them with Palau 141 from BOL. They are much higher volume liners than the ones they replacedd, and they are too tight.  They are crushing my forefoot from both sides and top and bottom.  The heel cup and cuff are perfect.  They're also the right length; nut pushing on the end of my toes.  I molded them twice using a toe cap and foam shims to take up space, but it did not help.  I also went into Surefoot to ask for help, but they told me there is nothing they could do.

 

So I'm looking for advice.  Can you grind away the foam on these liners without destroying them?  If so, what is the recommended method?  Dremmel or angle grinder perhaps?  Can they be clamped to permanently compress the foam?  Any other suggestions? 

 

Thanks. 

 

[drschwartz]

This starts to get expensive for you, but I use UPZ boots. I hated the stock liners, Intuition replacements were no better, and the Palau liners are also pretty thick.

No suggestions for any of these.

I ended up buying Black Diamond Thermofit liners and love them. They fit the UPZs great, and mold extremely well. They start with a smaller thickness than the Intuitions and my feet love them.

[Pat Donnelly]

Remold and buckle your tight area(s) one more notch; sounds like your two forward buckles.  Providing group liners are heated throughly the material should compress to fit.  Third time was a charm for me using this method. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Pat Donnelly

[pokkis]

If boots are tight then i use one mondo size smaller thermo liner. I did that for my Atomics and result was perfect. Naturally i had neoprene cups around my toes as usual.

[najserrot]

I just molded my liners not too long ago. I had the same problem with you on my right foot. And I didnt even mold them with toe caps. I got severe cramps on the feet in the beggining. Two 1km runs and i needed to take a break. No pain during riding but mostly when taking the lift. But 2 weeks of daily riding and they stated packing out where i got fhe cruahing sensation on the forefoot. I still get cramps. But only in  the first 2 or so runs and then disappear the rest of the day. I really like the liners. My feet dont move in the boot. Only can wiggle the toes.

[Corey]

How do your feet fit in the shells with an insole?  If they're already hitting the shell, then no liner change will help. 

I found that how I load my foot while the thermo liner is cooling is key.  I need to focus on putting a lot of weight on my mid-foot, causing it to flatten and widen as much as possible.  Otherwise it felt very narrow when riding.  I tried putting 90 lbs on my shoulders and standing only on that one foot while the liner was cooling, but that sucked.  That liner feels great, however I wasn't able to repeat for the other foot as I was very tired.  

Other random observation: I was bottoming the Deeluxe 141 liners, so the top of my arch and my shin were basically hitting the plastic.  I chased that for two years before going back to the Intuition Alpine liner, which is much stiffer in compression.  

[RoroSnow]

Not a UPZ user but a Palau user with my Dynafit Splitboard boots. I did punch my boots to widen the toebox but some mods were also needed for the liner...

Using a precision knife, I took off some material from the liner for the foam to be more strechable and to gain some little more room between the shell and the liner. You can also see the lateral mod for the navicular bone.

That's a quite radical and no coming back solution that should be done with care, but it has done the job for me. I of course also thermomolded the liner wearing double fingertoes socks on, with also some spacers for the toes......  Happy feet is definetly priceless....

 

 

[Jack M]

Any worthy boot-fitter can stretch your shells to give you some extra width or space where you need it.  Many shops have this capability.  I had this done to my UPZs and it cured my issue.  I'm using Intuition liners.  Had to mold the left one 3 times to get it right.  My left foot is apparently wider and/or freakier.  The third time I cut an old thick sock off at the arch and wore that in addition to my usual toe cap, and buckled the foot buckles at the 2nd notch during cooling in hopes for more width.  (and standing mostly on the one foot during cooling is paramount)  But it still wasn't enough.  Got the shell stretched and presto.  My boots are still what I would call "performance fit" if not race fit, but now they are bearable.  I unbuckle them on the chairlift.  Before I would unbuckle them halfway down the mountain.  The performance is worth it though.  Much better fit for me, I was getting heel lift in Deeluxes.

[General Tsao]

Jack, what model of Intuition did you go with?  Alpine or Power Wrap or other?

I am getting some heel lift in my Deeluxes as well and thinking I should invest in a proper liner.

Thanks.

[Jack M]

Power Wrap.  Maybe you want Power Wrap Plus?  It's thicker and takes up more space in the boot.  The Palau's that Bomber sells (which I've had) seem very similar if not identical to Power Wraps (I had a credit at a local store that sells Intuitions).

[J0hn]

Thank you all for the responses.  I don't think remolding is going to do the trick.  I already tried twice using extra padding and cranking the buckles to the point of real pain. The shells are the right size as my previous liners fit fine.  I already went to a boot fitter and they had no magic to work.  I could have the shells stretched.  I will give that some thought.  But it is a one way trip.  I would prefer to modify the liners if possible.

On the subject of footbeds, i do have them in the boots.  Today i removed them and it freed up a lot of room.  It was my first day this week without significant pain.  But the boots feel strange since they were molded with the footbeds inside.

I am inclined to take a knife to the liners, but i will go talk to the guys in Surefoot again about stretching the shells. 

Thank you. 

[Jack M]

My bootfitter said shell stretching is reversible.  But I don't think you need to worry about that, I think it's your only choice other than using a different footbed, or worse, selling the boots and starting over.

[Bobby Buggs]

Dont forget to think about the Zip Fit liners, I have a few hours on mine in my UPZs and so far so good.

[bumpyride]

There are several different thicknesses of moldable liners. The thinnest ones I've found have been in soft snowboard boots that I've found in play it again sports. Raichle boots have been the best for a thin liner.  I have a solid 9 1/2 foot and am using a 26.5 shell. The thicker liners did not work, the thinner ones did. When molding I use 4 socks that have been cut off at the ball of the foot, and then duct tape those 4 "footies" to my snowboard sock and mold it. Also I don't use foots beds. When molding, I do a dry run and to get the sequence down and then do  the mold. I also load the front of my foot,  keep the heel stationary and wiggle the toes making sure that I don't rock back and forth. Be more than happy to walk you through any questions you have, just PM me.

[nigelc]

Intuition have several different thicknesses. Also liners with no foam on the sole to cater for footbeds

[Neil Gendzwill]

I used some foam tape used for door seals and wrapped it around my forefoot to create extra space. I didn't use footbeds, the liners moulded with sufficient support for me. 

[J0hn]

Update: I spent two days in the boots without footbeds. Removing them did allow me to ride, but was not a permanent solution.  I was ready to discuss stretching the shells with a bootfitter.  But by the end of day two, the boots were feeling a little sloppy.  I couldn't believe it.  I put the footbeds back in and today they felt great.

I am happy to be in properly fitting boots, but I'm not confident that these liners aren't going to continue to change shape.  Perhaps that is the nature of heat moldable foam?  When I'm due for another pair, i will probably try one of the other brands mentioned. 

Thank you for all of the help.