Dmosby4 Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 What's "Decamber" all about? Donek has it on some of their boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Welcome to Bomber!! "Decamber" can be confusing. Essentially it is the opposite of camber. OR, "rocker". Camber is convex, Decamber or Rocker is concave. In most cases it is being used to describe reducing or eliminating camber if the first portion of the snowboards nose. It can however be anywhere on the board. Hope this helps. The relationships of camber, flex , side cut are or can be very complex or very simply. In the end they must work together to arrive at a sweet spot for the rider. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Decamber is the slight turning up of the effective tip and tail of the snowboard ( or ski) . Makes the board less likely to grab until turned up on edge. Resulting in a board that is somewhat more relaxed than a board that is not decambered. Effective edge contact with the ground is shorter than a non decambered board. Ski jargon sometimes referres to it as "rocker " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 but when on edge, effective edge is still the full length effective edge, decamber or no decamber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 What you do to your board when cranking a turn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 If you a strictly a recreation rider and you ride mostly groomed runs it is something you will want your board to have. Most older glass and metal boards did not have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Riding a board with decambered nose makes one better in their mind than in practice. Not that there's anything wrong with that. For certain circumstances, nose decamber is an asset. Otherwise, it blunts feedback at turn entry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 For certain circumstances, nose decamber is an asset. Otherwise, it blunts feedback at turn entry. I could not agree more. For me personally. I want that running edge to make contact and start to work as early as possible. I love the early initiation it provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmosby4 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 So it's just a slight rocker. Thanks for the help. Don't know why I would want to delay my edge from tracking but I'm sure someone likes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Slight nose decamber is great. It smooths the ride and initiation. It helps a lot in soft or rough snow. The best old school race boards of the past had small nose decamber too: Priors, Burtons, Rossies... Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) So it's just a slight rocker. Thanks for the help. Don't know why I would want to delay my edge from tracking but I'm sure someone likes it. From what I recall of the Kessler patent http://www.google.com/patents/US20090273161 that's almost the opposite of what it does ;-) I have not re-read this in detail, and it's turgid stuff, but I think this is the one. They used to just turn up the noses of skis and boards. The problem with that approach is that if you put the board on edge and pressure it, then the curve of the tip and tail in three dimensions affects the load there. If you have higher or lower pressure at those points, you are not distributing the load of a turn evenly over all the available edge. The board will break away where the load is maximum. If instead you were to design the board so that the load is distributed evenly through tip, body and tail, then your board could hold an edge at higher speeds. Decambering tip and tail is that design. So your race boards are going to be designed that way, and you will probably like it because it means they grip better and when they slide they do it in a more controlled manner. I expect Sean will explain precisely what Donek does and why in any case. Edited January 17, 2016 by philw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Now that this thread has described the basics lets get ridiculous. It is not enough that the board is or isn't decambered but how the amount of decamber is matched to the camber and weight and style of the rider. Tha camber and decamber of the board work together but only if properly matched to the riders weight and style. This input is important to a board builder. If the camber is too stiff the rider will not be able to load the board enough to make the decamber effective.Too soft and the tip will be decambered before it is desired. That balance between camber and decamber along with all the other factors in finding the perfect combination are the elusive little details you can help to narrow down on when you demo boards. If this information is confusing you should definitely have a discussion with some board builders to narrow down exactly what your present ride lacks and what you expect in your future ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 What you do to your board when cranking a turn I agree, donek is referring to rocker or reverse camber. When you bend a board or ski you are "de'ing" the camber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 "Rocker" implies no camber at all, short-hand term for rocking-chair─the curved pieces that the chair rocks on. I like "decamber" for this purpose, as it more specifically (and economically) describes the partially reversed camber of a cambered ski or board. And, as Mario and Phil say, it works in consort with the de-cambering that happens when we carve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) De- is a prefix attached to verbs. A snowboard cannot have "decamber". It can be decambered. Edited January 17, 2016 by michael.a 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 De- is a prefix attached to verbs. A snowboard cannot have "decamber". It can be decambered. Thank you Michael. AND there is a proper word to describe the opposite condition , it is rocker. It is a minor pet peeve of mine. There are situations where we are just over complicating or misusing terms. Example: Adding "Anti" to terms. DON'T do it!! Example: "Anti-Progressive Sidecut" There is no point. "Progressive" can be "getting larger" or "getting smaller" , so saying "Anti" is a waste . "Progressive" is just fine stand alone. So a progressive sidecut can be getting larger or getting smaller, from which end of the board? Anti only means "Not" the version that you have not let described anyway. Decamber is rocker, how about using rocker? Now days the freestyle world has gone koo koo over "S" rocker, four different ways rocker than most don't have the "slightest clue of what it is rocker" Stepping off a cambered soap box. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm not an English major, but... My point was that "rocker", a term I'm guessing came from the curved piece on the bottom of a rocking chair, and later used as a sort of slang description for the underwater fore and aft profile of a boat's keel and later for surfboards and now deep powder skis and boards, conjures the image of a long continuous convex curve. Since camber has been incorporated in ski and board design forever, I still like decambered for a description of the removal of camber from a section of a ski or board that traditionally has had camber. Rocker just sounds cooler and I think that's why the ski industry likes to use it. How about those punk-rockered boards though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 17, 2016 Report Share Posted January 17, 2016 Cambered or decambered each is a different tool for the same task ride fast have fun ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Rocker in ski jargon does not refer to a completely banana shaped board. Rocker is essentially the opposite of camber. Decambered doesn't make sense because as was pointed out its a verb. I decamber my board every turn I make, decambering is how a board turns. One can decamber the rocketed portion of a snowboard one can also think of it as bending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I designed and fabbed an ice carving board, or maybe better said, "very hard, hard pack" carving board , it has tip and tail decamber, or what ever you want to call it in this thread. The decamber./rocker is sharp and quick to initiate, then quickly tapers off. What this does is , puts more pressure on the tip and tail to bite into the very difficult snow that lies in front of you, "when the board is up on edge", the tip starts the carve and the tail enables the rider to complete the turn without washing out. There are days where this is the only board able to make any cut into the snow at the mountain. But when snow conditions are a more friendly, smoother , not set up as much, I do feel these front and rear teeth dragging a bit here and there. But that would be a day to take the other board. Decamber /rocker also , when on edge , steers you in the direction that you are going a bit more quickly/easier, than non decamber /rocker bds. Put your board on a flat surface and slowly pick it up on edge and look closely at what is going on. The following was imho., it works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I'm not an English major, but... .... I still like decambered for a description of the removal of camber from a section of a ski or board that traditionally has had camber. ... Agreed. That's what the word is for, and why people above are confusing it with rocker. They are different things, hence there are different words for these things. They could just google it, except these pedants would presumably not use Google as a verb.. I quite like pedantry, but you absolutely have to be right or it's self defeating. Even so, multiple weak arguments don't add up to anything more than one weak argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) But the nose and tail of skis/boards has never had camber, else you would be digging the nose into the snow. Which is why rocker is the adjective that makes the most sense here, and why it is used by the ski industry. Haven't they called that upturn, rise or shovel in the past? The ski industry (Volant?) used the word decambered to describe their first fully rockered skis with reverse sidecut (is there a word for that?) I suspect it was a ski marketing decision to describe the removal a bit of camber from the skis ends as adding rocker because it sounds new compared to decambered, which just sounds like readjusting something old─which it kinda is. Of course, in ski lingo, either term is technically correct to describe what they're doing. This thread started by asking what Donek (and Coiler) meant by the term decamber in referring to how they've tweaked the traditional camber flex profile. I think of it as pre-decambering to make it easy for old guys to keep ridding. The term decamber made sense to me probably because I'm an old codger who has been decambering his cambered skis (and now boards) since the days of leather boots and wood skis with cable bindings. And, yes I have purposely used lots of extra and inappropriate pre-fixes in this post just for Bryan's entertainment. Emojis added to lighten the tone Edited January 24, 2016 by bigwavedave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Formal and Conceptual semantics. If you understand what I'm saying and you agree it's formal.If you think you know what I mean but you disagree it conceptual and open for debate but man up and admit you will never accept my argument for argument sake not matter how compelling my rebuttal ! Be it resolved that here forward Rocker and Decambered will mean it applies less force than were it not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I haven't said anyone was right or wrong, just that the term decamber as Donek and Coiler use it makes sense to me, and explained why. Just don't push me off the chair because you disagree. To call a board "rockered" just seems misleading to me, since the main component of the flex profile of most skis and boards is still camber. On a related subject, does any one know if Kessler is credited as starting the use of rocker (or decambering) in the ends of boards and skis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 No. Long before Kessler, they do it well though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.