arneburner Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/snow-sports/skiing-and-snowboarding/snowboarding/Snowboarding-Is-Screwed.html?utm_campaign=rss&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=xmlfeed Interesting article in Outside, with a mention of carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 More interesting is the number of snowboarders in the comment section who refuse to recognize the point of the article. Still glad I'm a hardbooter. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWboarder Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 not one fabrication, not the tiniest iota of truth stretching... This guy has it right. I have thought this way for years and if not for hardbooting I would be skiing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 There are plenty of other sources that state basically the same. Once snowboarding went to the very young/skate style/rebel image, and once the level of freestyle went to the point it is now without any major real focus on all mountain riding/cruising, then it seems like it would end up something like BMX, skateboarding, bodyboarding - all of which skew younger, and so quite a few people stop doing them 'once they grow up'. The squeeze from freestyle skiing is also pretty evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 There are plenty of other sources that state basically the same. Once snowboarding went to the very young/skate style/rebel image, and once the level of freestyle went to the point it is now without any major real focus on all mountain riding/cruising, then it seems like it would end up something like BMX, skateboarding, bodyboarding - all of which skew younger, and so quite a few people stop doing them 'once they grow up'. The squeeze from freestyle skiing is also pretty evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yes, an interesting read. I didn't read the comments. ... Once snowboarding went to the very young/skate style/rebel image, and once the level of freestyle went to the point it is now without any major real focus on all mountain riding/cruising ... To me that's a change which happened through the 90s, although the American perspective may be different. I would not have ignored snowboarding from the start if Regis had been performing stupid spinny tricks like a spotty 13 year old wanker. Even so, I don't much care. I doubt that they will sustain the current marketing model. A future where the remaining resort snowboarders are a few old school skateboard kids, plus a few adults riding piste gear could happen. As with Telemarking, you don't need huge numbers to remain viable, because small manufacture is feasible and the major cost items, resorts, are paid for by skiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xolufus Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Great article...I'm glad they called out Jones Snowboards - Purchased their/his Hovercraft this season, great carve-y/backcountry board, rides very well w/plates...Also definitely have noticed the decline - near the end of most riding days - I'll sit and watch the number of boarders vs. skiers coming off the mountain (yes, I am that bored...) and the drop is quite evident, But on the positive, I've ridden up the chair and ridden w/ more alpine riders - that I'd never met/seen before - than ever this season...Plus - I've also had more people (both boarders + two plankers) "seriously" inquire about how they can try Alpine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Snowboard is lost forever as an industry. But all the new grassroots powsurfing and splitboard manufacturers is saving snowboarding. But as an industry - no way. Talked to a guy at a tradeshow who told me that he as a former Elan rep for Norway sold more on a season in late 90's than total snowboard summed up sales for 20121/13 in Norway. In Sweden total snowboard sales is abysmal. Non existing I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn Poop Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 As long as Kessler, Oxess, Virus, SG, Donek, Coiler and Prior can make me a board, and as long as there's at least one boot out there that will fit my hooves, every single stupid gull wing camber reverse banana rocker wavy edge marketing gimmick board can burn in a fire for all I care. Look at the gear we ride- the technology and geometry that goes into the boards, the boots and the bindings... I identify more with skiing than soft booting. Let snowboarding die already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc1 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Great article all true also 2nd the recommendation for the Jones Hovercraft great powder with plates board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) DNFTT, referring to the Outside article's author and editors. Funny thing that the popularity of "fringe" sports (skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, etc.) all follow teenage population trends. Lots of teens = popular Lower amounts of teens = decline in popularity. I'll try to remember to look up the trends and comeback with a prediction when popularity will surge again. Edited January 31, 2014 by lonbordin moar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 ... Funny thing that the popularity of "fringe" sports (skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, etc.) all follow teenage population trends. Demographics and economics are obviously connected, but I think your logic is a little circular. If you accept that snowboarding is a "teenage sport", it will necessarily follow that demographic. The point, in my view, behind the article is that most people at resorts are not in fact... teenagers. So from a commercial perspective, the child-focused nature of the sport's marketing is rather odd. TWS has been a young teenage boy's fanzine for years now, something I always found rather strange. Carving mag aside, there's nothing for blokes whose bollocks have actually dropped or women. I participate in other "fringe" sports, for example caving and climbing. Neither are particularly focused on children. Kids have time but not cash, and they're certainly not at the peak of their athletic ability for these sports. More mainstream activities like "music" were also allowed to be dominated by children, yet if you look at the business these days that's not quite true any longer. If you want to be in the snowboard business in a few years time then you're going to need to deal with the fact that there aren't that many spotty 13 year old kids any more. But that's just marketing... all you need to do is put Led Zep graphics on the boards and it's almost done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Wondering how much consideration was given for changing demographics. Does anyone know of a young family that skis, boards (regularly) ? Busy lives and too much choice in what you do as a family. The changing face of immigration ( from non Nordic countries) has to be a huge factor. Recently had guy doing his daily prayers on the sidewalk leading to the chalet. Have you ever seen that at a North American Resort ?(My reference to Religion is to illustrate the differences observed today not to incite. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWboarder Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 As long as Kessler, Oxess, Virus, SG, Donek, Coiler and Prior can make me a board, and as long as there's at least one boot out there that will fit my hooves, every single stupid gull wing camber reverse banana rocker wavy edge marketing gimmick board can burn in a fire for all I care. Look at the gear we ride- the technology and geometry that goes into the boards, the boots and the bindings... I identify more with skiing than soft booting. Let snowboarding die already. Hear Hear brother. I am my local hill's biggest anit-snowboarding "snowboarder" (stopped calling myself a snowboarder 3 years ago) and when people ask what I did last weekend I generally tell them I was skiing albeit it on an alpine board and in hardboots. I canceled my Transworld snowboarder seasons ago (I read Powder), I wear primarily "ski" gear (with cuff guards and all) and when someone asks if they should tray "snowboarding" the answer is no, followed up with "we can get you in hardboots on either a carving stick or skis, anything else is a waist of time, energy, and physical strength. The freestyle market is saturated.... Saturated with ignorance, arrogance, and tunnel vision. I cant relate, cant assimilate, and I certainly don't care about softbooting's fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 While the article is elitist beyond reason in order to generate hits (and it's working!), I generally agree with the points. I see too many of the young local snowboarders trying very hard to be badasses. Anyone that's not an above-average-income teen-thug-wannabe is turned off by the image put forth by the marketing machine and a few loudmouths. Maybe the mommy-buys-my-thug-stuff market is so big that it overshadows 20+ riders? The current marketing people seem to think so... I'm sure people in every generation had similar discussions about how teens are stupid and wrecking a good thing. ;) I'd bet my parents thought the same of my actions. My co-workers and non-skiing/snowboarding friends think I do the stuff they see in the ads and during the X-games - huge air and spinning like a top. Not so much. But the corporate snowboard industry is based on making it seem badass and Xtreme (OMG!) to teens so it's hard to get beyond that image. If they actually saw what most people do on the ski hills, they may come out to play. The silliest trend here is riding without mitts or gloves. It's -25C; of course you need to go into the lodge after every run to warm up your hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 great article, "Leveraging snowboarding's rebel cred, they modeled its image on skateboarding and aimed it almost entirely at teenagers.That worked great for a while. Then snowboarding went mainstream—the X Games, Mountain Dew ads, Shaun White—and, inevitably, it lost a bit of its mojo. The first generation of riders got real jobs and started having kids, and snowboarding's image never matured to accommodate them." The 1st time I saw a snowboard '84 I was already an adult and just getting good at skiing. Bought a friends performer as a favor to him in '85 and thought of edgeless bent plywood with rubber straps as a toy. Skied then tele'd thru most of the 80s and only got into it when boards built like a ski that could hold an edge, ie carve, hit the rental shops. Needless to say I thought of laceup boots and straps as toys also. The only rag ad that ever clicked with me was UPS showing a racer laying it over. I never wanted to race but I wanted his boots, even if they were fluorescent pink. I bought those boots the following season and never considered laces again until '02 when a closeout deal on clickers came along(still a strap hater). Sold those after 3 days because I missed the support & convenience(easy in & out) of hardshells. Anyway (excuse the rant) I've always been saddened by the industry's focus on skate punks and total abandonment of the rest of the world. Thank god for the few exracers out there who took it on to themselves to build tools instead of toys and keep the passion alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMU Alpine Boarder Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I read this the other day... For the most part, I would say that I agree with the article... I currently work as an instructor at a small, park district owned, snow covered speed bump outside of Chicago... This season, we have noticed a significant drop in the number of kids snowboard lessons/rentals vs kids ski lessons/rentals.... Having worked for a Big Box sporting good retailer for 4 seasons, I think our sales there would back this up... Kids are turning away from the sport... They are going to skiing if they are going outside at all... I do think, however, we are going to see a change in the industry over the next couple of years... Look at Shawn White going into this Olympics... He has "grown up" a ton... He cut his hair... He wears a suit now... He sounds fairly educated with his interviews/public appearances... And he STILL wins and is the cutting edge of the sport... This is a good thing... Another thing that bugs me here: It seems that there is quite the anti-park sentiment here at B.O.L... Having been around here for 10+ years, I get it and fully understand it... I do think this is a blatant stereotype however, and is becoming less and less common as time progresses... Over the past 2 seasons, I have taken it upon myself to learn basic freestyle skills (switch riding, 180's & 360's, rails/boxes, etc.)... This was done so I can act as an ambassador of the sport while working with a large amount of 9-13 year old kids that I see while instructing... Through my time in the park, I have found that tons of people "get it" and are good ambassadors of the sport... Instead, we focus on the few idiots that wear their pants around their ankles and talk like idiots... It was an eye-opening experience for me... You have kids that used to be like we described, but instead of being 14-20, they are now 25-30 and have gone through the maturity learning curve that almost everyone goes through in their early 20's... These folks have been more than welcoming and very helpful as I progressed in the park... Many of them respected my carving background as I talked with them in the park and explained my origins... They were also very welcoming of me coming over to the park and very willing to help me learn/progress (just like many carvers are to people that ask questions about carving gear in lift lines and around the hill)... Even many of the "kids" in the park (under 20-21) thought it was cool to see a 30 year old in the park, working to improve himself... As the sport progresses, I see it breaking down the barriers of the past... People get bored and want to try new things... They are going to seek out new aspects of their sport, wherever they may be... Just give it time and enjoy the ride... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Demographics and economics are obviously connected, but I think your logic is a little circular. If you accept that snowboarding is a "teenage sport", it will necessarily follow that demographic.The point, in my view, behind the article is that most people at resorts are not in fact... teenagers. So from a commercial perspective, the child-focused nature of the sport's marketing is rather odd. TWS has been a young teenage boy's fanzine for years now, something I always found rather strange. Carving mag aside, there's nothing for blokes whose bollocks have actually dropped or women. I participate in other "fringe" sports, for example caving and climbing. Neither are particularly focused on children. Kids have time but not cash, and they're certainly not at the peak of their athletic ability for these sports. More mainstream activities like "music" were also allowed to be dominated by children, yet if you look at the business these days that's not quite true any longer. If you want to be in the snowboard business in a few years time then you're going to need to deal with the fact that there aren't that many spotty 13 year old kids any more. But that's just marketing... all you need to do is put Led Zep graphics on the boards and it's almost done. I'm always willing to examine my logic. :) Teenage population surges and then activities like skateboarding, snowboarding, surfing, etc. surge as well. When the teen population falls so do these sports popularity. I'd agree that correlation does not equal causation and there are more issues at play... but the Beiber's still exist because record companies know teenage girls buy albums, go to concerts, etc. I'm sure the next teenage population surge will lead to rock gyms springing up everywhere. ;) (Dude those aren't sports their a lifestyle. :D;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Good points NMU. The thought that you have to be a with us or against us mentality is something I get every day as some people refuse to ride with me on the lifts when I'm riding a board but will ride with me when i'm on skis. When I'm on the skwal they stay away like I've got the plague but talk about it with anyone around them. Few brave enough to ask me direct questions. If you happen to ride a board , then skis, then a skwal buy the end of the day your not in the clique but on your own. My son is a Freestyle instructor and prefers to ride skis most of the time but at the end of the season he like to rip on an Alpine Board to experience different g's. It seems crossing disciplines also creates some tension so maybe it's more a flaw in human character not to accept the difference in others. As far as who is going to dominate . Follow the money. Watch who sponsors the various events for the Olympics. Businesses target demographics . It will be interesting to see what market they have identified for Alpine events at the Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
land surfer Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 i just am baffled by the fact that many new snowboarders head off to the park to 'jump' before they can even turn... ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 yes and no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I don't feel any gloom over snowboarding. I still meet stoked riders. At the big tradeshow in Europe called ISPO it was more brands than ever. New shapes. And up here in Scandinavia there's freeride events targeted to BOTH boarders and skiers. Splitboarding is seen as ok even from skiers horizon. Sure it's a small niche. But growing. Spending a week on Stryn glacier last spring it was 60/40 skier to boarders. But we talk hardcore sidecountry riders riding out of season not resort weekend warriors. Gear is to buy. Slopes groomed and pow to be had. Hell let's have fun while it lasts. No problem for us. I's the board shops and big manufacturers and their reps thats suffering. Let the big guys suffer and support the owner/operator guys like Bomber, Donek, Venture, Powderjet, Virus, Pogo, Furuberg and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mats Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Here's the answer from Snowboarder Mag. Pretty lame and confused. http://www.snowboardermag.com/featured/outside-an-insiders-perspective/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn Poop Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Here's the answer from Snowboarder Mag. Pretty lame and confused.http://www.snowboardermag.com/featured/outside-an-insiders-perspective/ Hurrrrrt feeeeeeelings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Snowboarder Mag. ? yea right....90 % ads and all the Photos show Riders in the Air ? if they would call it Airboarder than I would have known years ago to never bother picking it up in the first place, and Transworld...yea...same thing ? Snowboarding is done on and in the Snow...this is just One Snowboarders Opinion :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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