New to boarding-very interested in hard booting

[Momsboard2]

Hi, I just started snowboarding last year, but really want to ultimately end up alpine boarding. Does anyone have any tips to help me fast track my transition? I was thinking about hiring an instructor...any recommendations for MN instructors? My home hill is buck, but I am willing to travel to other locations.

Thanks! :)

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[fin]

Hello Momsboard2,

And welcome! There are obviously some great resources here at Bomber to help the first timer such as:

http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/newcarver/new_carver.html

And you can always ask questions here as all are friendly and knowledgeable. And more than anything, willing to help.

Also, I know for a fact there is a group who does ride at Buck Hill so see if you can hook-up with them for some local help. Best place is to look or even post your own here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?22-WI-IL-MI-IN-OH-MN

Heck, looks like there is a thread just for Buck Hill:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?40692-Buck-Hill-2013-14

And you can always e-mail or call myself or Michelle to help you out in anyway we can.

Good luck and stick to it. You are going to love it!

[SunSurfer]

I've read the tech articles on the New Carvers page Fin linked you to. I'm a pretty much self-taught carver, who has used those articles, heaps of YouTube videos and my own head to learn to carve from scratch in my 50s. I can now consistently run NASTAR courses in a Silver time and occasionally Gold.

One thing that made an enormous difference to my ability to make clean carves on toe and heel sides was learning how to get my weight properly onto the carving edge.

Doing the Norm 2 exercise, practice making the knee on the outside of the turn push sideways and down towards the carving edge. Keep your upper body upright, and your hands forward and balanced. This puts your weight onto the carving edge and gives a clean carved turn. My avatar photo has me doing exactly that.

As you progress try searching YouTube for the Intermediate and Steeps Clinics videos from SES 2013.

Edited January 4, 2014 by SunSurfer

[Guest]

The ultimate way to get good at carving fast and move onto an alpine board quickly is to get a bunch of money, quit your job and buy some season passes and just go ride all the time :)

Seriously, though, you need time-on-mountain, and just practice practice practice. While you could start on an alpine board now, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I would move on to an alpine board when you feel like your current setup just isn't responsive enough, and like your board is holding you back. For now, just have fun and keep pushing your limits. Get acquainted with going fast. Fall in love with your board and make it an extension of your body. Remember the golden rule: have fun! But also remember the other golden rule: if you're not falling, you're not learning (ouch). Good softboot carving can be beautiful in itself - don't pass by that stage :)

[bigwavedave]

In addition to connecting with folks on the ride board you could also try contacting the G-team, based at Hyland Hills, they have alpine coaches and may be able to hook you up with an alpine instructor. In fact, come out tomorrow (Sunday) and watch some racing at Buck and you will be able to connect with a bunch of local riders.

[Bobby Buggs]

Seriously, though, you need time-on-mountain,

Also known as TOM. TOM is the difference maker in this sport.

1 thing I found helpful was following better riders lines. It takes out the thinking process, better riders use the hill to their advantage. They see the things in the terrain that newer folks dont. So follow some alpine riders and try to emulate their moves. The break throughs will come and so will the crashes but the good thing about Alpine is if your doing it close to right your close enough to the snow where the crashes are usually a slide on your hip. Oh yeah, stay away from Head boots.

[Unicorn Poop]

Re: Crashes.

Get some body armor, specifically stuff for motorcycles. After crashing once on the board, I decided to get armored shorts and a jacket that all fits over my first layer and is nearly undetectable under my outer layers. My tail bone, spine, shoulders, elbows, thighs and chest are now protected. I've crashed a few times since I started wearing the armor, and it doesn't hurt at all. I'm not saying you can't get hurt, but anyone that doesn't wear armor is taking a big risk. Start right by starting safely.

[Nicotine]

If you want to ultimately end up alpine boarding you need to aquire the alpine boarding equipment first. I ride at Welch and could give you some pointers/lessons if you wish. Skip the step in bindings, extremely stiff and unforgiving. (hoping my virgin SW SI are not this way)

Pete

[thebionicman]

Almost every Saturday and Sunday Bobble and myself are out at Buck Hill. I would be happy to give you some pointers to help you get going.

Also what BigWaveDave said, come out this weekend and see the races. I was out yesterday and will be out in am hour or so to watch/ride.

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[Momsboard2]

Almost every Saturday and Sunday Bobble and myself are out at Buck Hill. I would be happy to give you some pointers to help you get going.

Also what BigWaveDave said, come out this weekend and see the races. I was out yesterday and will be out in am hour or so to watch/ride.

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I think I have met you, bobble, and one other person. I am the lift operator at Buck that keeps interrupting your carving to ask you questions-thanks for stopping to answer them, btw!

I wanted to come out for the races today, but I think with the wind chill I am going to have to bow out. I did get the chance to watch them practice Thursday, however.

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[Momsboard2]

Re: Crashes.

Get some body armor, specifically stuff for motorcycles. After crashing once on the board, I decided to get armored shorts and a jacket that all fits over my first layer and is nearly undetectable under my outer layers. My tail bone, spine, shoulders, elbows, thighs and chest are now protected. I've crashed a few times since I started wearing the armor, and it doesn't hurt at all. I'm not saying you can't get hurt, but anyone that doesn't wear armor is taking a big risk. Start right by starting safely.

I can definitely appreciate this tip! I wrecked pretty hard last year and I am still having issues with it. I don't usually fall, but if I do, it's pretty predictable what I will hit.

Thanks! :)

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[Momsboard2]

In addition to connecting with folks on the ride board you could also try contacting the G-team, based at Hyland Hills, they have alpine coaches and may be able to hook you up with an alpine instructor. In fact, come out tomorrow (Sunday) and watch some racing at Buck and you will be able to connect with a bunch of local riders.

I sent an email to Karl Koehler (listed in the instructor link). I am not sure if his email is still valid, hopefully, I will hear back from him.

Thanks

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[Momsboard2]

The ultimate way to get good at carving fast and move onto an alpine board quickly is to get a bunch of money, quit your job and buy some season passes and just go ride all the time :)

Seriously, though, you need time-on-mountain, and just practice practice practice. While you could start on an alpine board now, I personally wouldn't recommend it. I would move on to an alpine board when you feel like your current setup just isn't responsive enough, and like your board is holding you back. For now, just have fun and keep pushing your limits. Get acquainted with going fast. Fall in love with your board and make it an extension of your body. Remember the golden rule: have fun! But also remember the other golden rule: if you're not falling, you're not learning (ouch). Good softboot carving can be beautiful in itself - don't pass by that stage :)

This was what my husband was recommending also (about staying on my current board for a while).

It's funny that you say not falling means not improving. I make a point not to fall but that means I never leave my comfort zone!

This year is definitely tough for "mountain time"! I hope we get some warmer weather soon-it's hard to move when you're dressed like the Michelin man! ;p

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[Momsboard2]

I've read the tech articles on the New Carvers page Fin linked you to. I'm a pretty much self-taught carver, who has used those articles, heaps of YouTube videos and my own head to learn to carve from scratch in my 50s. I can now consistently run NASTAR courses in a Silver time and occasionally Gold.

One thing that made an enormous difference to my ability to make clean carves on toe and heel sides was learning how to get my weight properly onto the carving edge.

Doing the Norm 2 exercise, practice making the knee on the outside of the turn push sideways and down towards the carving edge. Keep your upper body upright, and your hands forward and balanced. This puts your weight onto the carving edge and gives a clean carved turn. My avatar photo has me doing exactly that.

As you progress try searching YouTube for the Intermediate and Steeps Clinics videos from SES 2013.

This is perfect! I keep hearing from folks that they are self taught. It helps to see what resources helped them.

Thanks!

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[Momsboard2]

Hello Momsboard2,

And welcome! There are obviously some great resources here at Bomber to help the first timer such as:

http://www.bomberonline.com/resources/newcarver/new_carver.html

And you can always ask questions here as all are friendly and knowledgeable. And more than anything, willing to help.

Also, I know for a fact there is a group who does ride at Buck Hill so see if you can hook-up with them for some local help. Best place is to look or even post your own here:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/forumdisplay.php?22-WI-IL-MI-IN-OH-MN

Heck, looks like there is a thread just for Buck Hill:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?40692-Buck-Hill-2013-14

And you can always e-mail or call myself or Michelle to help you out in anyway we can.

Good luck and stick to it. You are going to love it!

Thanks a ton! This community has been overwhelmingly helpful! I have talked to several of the folks I have seen on Buck hill and they have been very patient with me and seemed happy to answer my questions.

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[SunSurfer]

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/9606839" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen="" width="500" frameborder="0" height="281"></iframe> Игора 19.02.10 from Salomeya on Vimeo.

In this fun video, that is familiar to a number of the people here, one of the riders is carving beautifully using a soft boot set up. This screen grab shows his bindings have both been rotated forward into a position more like a hard boot setup.

So read the article on setting up your stance, and set up your bindings a comfortable distance apart, angled towards the front of your board so that your boots won't protrude over the edges. Make the front binding about 5 degrees more forward facing than the rear and go for it!

[Scuff]

E-mail sent!

~Karl Koehle

[leeho730]

I might get chewed for this.... But here we go...

I recon... For beginner, suitable equipments would consist of second-hand Deeluxe 325/700 or Raichle + yellow/yellow BTS + Burton race / Ibex Speed + all mountain softboot carving boards such as second-hand Incline or Razor or competent powder boards such as Rad Air Tanker 162/172... And start with duck stance like 18/-6...

I saw this beginner gentlemen last season who were on Raichle (with 5-position lock), Burton binding, and Burton board... And my god he was struggling the whole season (or whenever I saw him)... I really wanted to recommend him to go a bit wide and definitely get BTS... But I didn't know him so I wouldn't comment unless asked...

At least on duck stance it's easier to manoeuvre the boards... And with BTS and second-hand Deeluxe boots and Burton race binding things are a lot more forgiving and easier compared to putting absolute beginner on 45/40 and with locked rigid boots... And then once said person gets used to it one can slowly introduce forward stance and slowly and progressively increase binding angles until probably by the end of the season he or she would be comfy enough on forward stance with no overhang and possibly introduce heel lift or 7-degree cant on back foot... Then maybe in next season he or she may be ready for proper carving boards with VSR and 20cm-width boards... Sell the existing board or keep it just in case he or she wants to go softboot riding or powder riding or still wants to go softboot riding...

So... Momsboard2, I would like to recommend used Donek Incline/Razor, Swoard Dual, Rad Air Tanker reverse camber 162/172 (I recommend Rad Air Tanker because you can still have massive fun on powder day with hardboots and burton race binding), used Deeluxe 700/325 or Raichle boots, BTS with yellow/yellow springs, and used burton race/ Ibex Speed binding. Please start with duck stance (18/-6) or mellow forward stance (21/6) and gradually increase angles once you are comfortable with forward stance... By end of the season you would have advanced enough to feel the need of 7-degree cant on back foot... Please see the attached pictures...

Then gradually upgrade equipments like bindings to something more serious like TD3 or F2 and full-on carving or race boards (too many choices).... And possibly keep the board for powrder days... Or buy something like Donek Axxess, Coiler AMT or Virus UFC if you want one board to go everywhere...

Hope this helps...

Edited January 5, 2014 by leeho730

[b0ardski]

I can't believe you would tell a beginner to put hardboots in a duck stance, DON'T DO IT, your knees can thank me later.

If your used to duck stance with a wide splay, ie 20front/-10rear, start at 30/0 or better35/5, it will still feel familiar but will start getting your body facing the front of the board which is what makes alpine what it is.

If you must go that low on the back foot use the stiffest freeride board you have, start working your binding angles forward and the splay between your feet closer together as you get used to the boot/binding setup and the feel for alpine stance. Then move to a narrower carve oriented board and you'll be alpine stylin' in no time.

[Scuff]

I can't believe you would tell a beginner to put hardboots in a duck stance, DON'T DO IT, your knees can thank me later.

Duck Stace in Hardboots is an awful idea.

I sent you my phone number and e-mail, and live only a few minutes away (near Zoo)

Please use me as a resource before looking at gear.

My wife may even have a board or two you can borrow,

When you are ready.

Cheers,

~Karl

[Corey]

Largely self-taught here too, but I would have learned a lot faster if I had locals to ride with. I learned more on my first few days in Aspen (SES) with other carvers than I had riding by myself for a few years! You are very lucky to have locals to ride with and give you direct feedback. :)

Note that every tip should be taken with a grain of salt. The same things don't work for all people. Try it, if it doesn't work then switch back to your previous method. A duck stance with hardboots is highly unconventional. Maybe it'll work for you.

Try soft boot carving first using the links provided. I found that I needed to slow down as most soft boot boards have fairly tight sidecuts.

[NSSage]

I met BigWaveDave and TheBionicMan yesterday while on a trip to race at Buck Hill and they are great carvers I would definitely try to learn something from them if Buck is your home hill. My mom started out hardbooting with no training and was pretty good so you can do it but it will probably be harder than soft boots but if what you want to do is hardbooting then I say go for it and spend money on the kind of snowboarding you want to do.

[bigwavedave]

Sage advice...nice to meet you at Buck and good luck in the rest of your racing season.

Carving mom will do well to get started off "on the right foot" with Karl who has been a carving coach and teacher for several years. Getting set up on an appropriate board with a comfortable stance and learning "good" technique. It's easy to develop "bad" habits like reaching down to touch the snow while trying to imitate someone who carves really low.

[leeho730]

Well... I agree that duck stance with hardboot on carving board is an awful idea long term.

But for beginner... It's not such a bad idea... Because for beginners the most important thing is to have safe, gainful and fun experience.

And for someone who's been in on softboot riding for about a season... Steep forward angles and stiff boots can be quite intimidating.

Well let's say for example it would be difficult for him to ride 17cm Virus boards on 60/54 even though for us it rocks.

And in certain situations duck stance can be of advantage.

Like quite a good number of hardboot splitboarders use duck stance on their hardboot bindings such as phantom.

Actually come to think of it Phantom binding itself is designed with duck or mellow forward stance in mind since it can't go over 30 degrees in either direction.

http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16089&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15670&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

One well-experienced forum member, uses 25/-12 angles, albeit on shorter stance width (22.5").

Although I admit Phantom has built-in cant that makes duck stance a bit easier.

But if Momsboard2 can be supported by local carvers, it could be awesome! Follow their advice on the slope, that would be the best way.

Edited January 5, 2014 by leeho730

[Neil Gendzwill]

I just can't see duck in hardboots. My idea of a softboot transition is to work your way into forward angles on your softie setup, maybe up to 40 degrees or so. Once comfy there, switch to hard boots at the same angles on the same board. Get used to that, then look at an alpine board.