ecshredder Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I want to hear it from the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 impossible to call good or bad as a still pic is not enough information to make a call...you are on the way to somewhere from somewhere and a video that shows a number of cycles would be needed to determine good from bad...and then again one persons good can be another persons bad looks good from here :) but then I am no expert, so I apologize for this response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crucible Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 Uhhhhhhhh- YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transistor Rhythm Posted May 7, 2012 Report Share Posted May 7, 2012 It's called making the best of a very awkward stance. He's at least trying to go deep, keeping shoulders level and turning shoulders into the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Bad-ass technique. Just go with it and make it your own style.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Uhhhhhhhh- YES. Hey Geo, he's on softies, I believe, and flattish stance. So, no, not bad. Again, what SBS said, hard to really judge on one photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) Pretty impressive technique for Florida!!! Actually I suggest the "serving tray" idea. Think of holding a tray in both hands and imagine there's a cup or glass on the tray.....as you go int a turn you wiill have to tilt the tray to avod the cup or glass sliding off. In your photo you right hand would be more down towards the toe side edge of the board and your left would be out level with your shoulder. Hands infront of you so you always can see them. The smoother/quieter style I want to attain myself is more of reaching towards the board edge or toe of your boot than all the motion that your photo shows.....but if your having fun go with what works! Edited May 8, 2012 by barryj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatoos Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Friend of mine says that is the toilet position.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) IMO, softboot carving is very different from hardboot carving. Softbootsailer, jburrill, and Rob Stevens would be good resources for this. Edited May 9, 2012 by Jack Michaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecshredder Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Anybody got some good softboot heelside pics? I managed to find this picture of one of my favorite riders Graham Watanabe (out front) and it looks close so I can't be too far off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I would just be careful with that foreward arm position. It would be especially vulnerable to injury while rotated with the thumb down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyagt4 Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Wouldn't say bad per se, seems like the rider is doing what he can given the stance available. I tend to ride my softboot setup with purely forward angles, allowing me to ride more forward facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Seth Wescott can't be wrong... I'd say just keep your back hand more in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 I've got plenty of experience carving in softies, but my no means consider myself an expert. I'm gonna throw caution to the wind and open my pie-hole anyway. First off, I think one can tell quite a bit from ecshredder's photo. There's a trench, a pretty large-radius trench. It's headed more or less down the fall line. The pitch is moderate. I'm betting the rider is moving along at a pretty good clip based on the direction down the fall line and large-radius shape of the trench. The above is IMHO consistent with the body position. The lower body has nice angles and the board is well on edge. The upper body is piked forward - "broken at the waist" - which moves the rider's weight off the heel side edge and more into the midline of the board. This precludes a tight turn, and allows speed to build up. In Jack's post Seth has has back more or less perpendicular to the snow, which implies full pressure on the heel side edge. IMHO, this more so than the hand position is the key difference. Of course if the back is more vertical then the hands are going to be in a more neutral position as well. Seth's lower body position is similar to the thread-starting photo, the upper body position is going to allow for a tighter carve. Looking back at the BX photo... the piked upper body makes sense when the rider wants to be on the heel edge, ready to turn hard heel side, but at the moment is looking for speed. Pivot the upper body to a vertical position from there and the turn will tighten. Same applies to the rider in ecshredder's photo. So, is it bad technique? If you're looking to preserve speed while staying on a heel side edge, in preparation to tighten a heel side, I think its fine. If you're looking for C-shaped carves, similar to what you'd do on hard boots, then adjustments will be required. But hey that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong. FWIW: I have trouble carving C-shaped turns on a lot of softie boards, because they have too little effective edge, too soft in the nose, or some combination thereof. I recall demoing a Burton Custom X two springs ago and trying to rail on it, and remembering feeling like my upper body was way out of sorts, trying to keep myself from over-bending the nose. Probably weighed 185-190 at the time. Put me on a Coiler Softie or Donek Saber, and I've been told "you look like you're in hard boots". Angles around 24/15 in all cases. Its MUCH easier to maintain good form during a carve, on a board that has the right flex and edge length for the job. Better riders than me can make a nice C-shaped turn on a floppy jib stick at speed and look good doing it. I just don't have such a stick to practice on :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecshredder Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 That was excellent Mike T, exactly the analysis I'm looking for. You even nailed my biggest issue which is not being able to drain off speed on heelside turns. Thanks for taking the time to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) IMMHO well I guess you are coming out of the backside turn and just starting to release the edge...looks as if you could be doing large across the run turns at a good clip...the stance when it is duck or close to duck causes the back to be perpendicular to the fall line...99.99% of all soft booters ride that way...so really your position is dictated by your stance and you do it well sitting on the toilet frowned upon by perhaps some of the HB folks is simply mandated by the softbooters stance. I have seen some of your pictures before and I thought a short video... I think you have a great style and ability to enjoy yourself on any hill or run. I believe if you watch the best softbooter on the planet in slow motion go down the hill that they will at sometime be in the exact position which your picture shows...therefore this is why I would suggest a Video of at least a couple of consecutive turning cycles to allow your style to be fully seen and for whatever reason judged by others here...:) Edited May 11, 2012 by softbootsailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvingchef Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 here is a couple of pics of slopestar i don't know his exact stance but i have seen him carving regular down a black run do a 180 hop and continue carving goofy without missing a beat, he usually switches a few times during the same run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 ec, may i ask about your height, weight and the board and the angles? also, the size of your boot? risers? just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecshredder Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I've seen a video of slopestar that was very impressive. Real smooth and symmetrical turns, not to mention the switch carves, wow! To davekempmeister: I am about 5'8", 150lb, and I ride a 163 wide with size 8 boots. I'm usually setup just forward of centered at 15f/18r with no risers. The board is a Nidecker Ultralight which is pretty soft in the nose with alot of taper. Looking forward to trying my new Kessler ride next season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 The above is IMHO consistent with the body position. The lower body has nice angles and the board is well on edge. The upper body is piked forward - "broken at the waist" - which moves the rider's weight off the heel side edge and more into the midline of the board. This precludes a tight turn, and allows speed to build up. In Jack's post Seth has has back more or less perpendicular to the snow, which implies full pressure on the heel side edge. IMHO, this more so than the hand position is the key difference. Of course if the back is more vertical then the hands are going to be in a more neutral position as well. Seth's lower body position is similar to the thread-starting photo, the upper body position is going to allow for a tighter carve. Looking back at the BX photo... the piked upper body makes sense when the rider wants to be on the heel edge, ready to turn hard heel side, but at the moment is looking for speed. Pivot the upper body to a vertical position from there and the turn will tighten. Same applies to the rider in ecshredder's photo. So, is it bad technique? If you're looking to preserve speed while staying on a heel side edge, in preparation to tighten a heel side, I think its fine. If you're looking for C-shaped carves, similar to what you'd do on hard boots, then adjustments will be required. But hey that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong. FWIW: I have trouble carving C-shaped turns on a lot of softie boards, because they have too little effective edge, too soft in the nose, or some combination thereof. I recall demoing a Burton Custom X two springs ago and trying to rail on it, and remembering feeling like my upper body was way out of sorts, trying to keep myself from over-bending the nose. Probably weighed 185-190 at the time. Well, for what it is worth with my racing background with Coach Maccarron, my first reaction to the photo was "too far back above waist -- more forward with arms sticking out front (i.e. like that guy who said pretend to hold lunch tray)"... however, then did I realized he was on soft boots. That notion has a slight difference from hard booting... sooo, my first thing I was thinking was "hmm, a bit more less than toliet bowl and ahve a bit more of sumo wrestling stance" but that's because of my background from duck feet and moderately wide stance from the 90's. I've watched so many 90's snowboard video and have imitated the styling which was a success for me... but in 2000s, I've graduated to hard booting and then ... -ahem- skiing. So my soft booting is a bit stuck to the 90's era. Also, this is my opinion, per se -- I strongly believe the geometric side cut radius plays a huge role on how a turn is executed... I've a strong avid advocate for small side cut radius which translates to squirrely turns, which I like esp at high speed when quick response is necessary. For instance, I'm a fan of 159 Lib Tech Emma Peel which had 8m sidecut radius which is a huge blessing for me. So, esherder, just keep on dialing it in, and you'll "get" it eventually. Takes a while, too. And yes, I'm guilty of toliet bowl stance at times. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I want to hear it from the experts.[ATTACH]30670[/ATTACH] Hey! Isn't that Lost Boy trail at Vail Game Creek bowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecshredder Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 No its Breckenridge, but I'll post a vid or pic from Game Creek (the day before) when I get time. I love that run, constant pitch all the way down and nice and wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 ec, first of all - I am no expert by any stretch. Rarely do I understand the technical dialogue that goes on here on BOL. When I look at your photo, I am thinking that if you had a Tanker (it all goes back to Tankers) with another 15-20cm, you could slow-milk that high speed heelside turn for a lot more. If hanging out like that is how you have fun (it is fun), the Tanker will let you hang out like that for longer = more fun. Tankers are lightweight and not at all as unwieldy as the length would suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Seth Wescott can't be wrong...[ATTACH]30681[/ATTACH] Anyone know what board Seth is riding in that shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Anyone know what board Seth is riding in that shot? Looks like an earlier SG to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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