Futahaguro Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Has anyone else experienced the bump on the base below a binding screw? I used the TD-2 screws in my TD-2 3 degree cant disc with 4x4 insert and orange elastomers. I did not crank the heck out of them, I did the same thing on my old Avalanche and it did not do this. I pulled off the bindings and the bumps are still there. The two in front are not that bad but the back one is kind of annoying, since it is an expensive board! Is this the whole insert getting pushed down or is it the base of the insert getting bent out from the screw? Do I need 1mm shorter screws? I doubt they make them in 1mm lengths. Did I just put a dent in the Titanal? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 You can tap them back down with a large rounded screwdriver handle after warming the board up to room temp. If it were the whole insert the dimple would be the size of a penny.You can shorten the screws by filing them. My favotite method is to screw on a nut protecting the desired length of thread and filing of the excess. Be sure to file the end of the screw to smooth out the threads as ss screws tend to pile up the threads if they are not very smooth. Most ss screws come in increments of 5mm so you have a little bench work ahead of you to correct the situation. If you don't correct the dimples the ptex will work harden and stretch and you may not get it to settle back down Good Luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 The pic doesnt show it well but there's some serious binding suck there plus this gem. Cracked base (10 year old board) from overtightening a screw. Be happy this didnt happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 ...or is it the base of the insert getting bent out from the screw? This, I believe. Do I need 1mm shorter screws? Yes. Did I just put a dent in the Titanal? Unfortunately, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEJ Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Lay it on it's top sheet with a 2 x 4 or some other good backing support directly under the bump and smack it with a hammer. You need to get that stuff back where it belongs before you grind it. At least, that's how I fixed mine. Might take a couple of good smacks to get it back down. If you grind as is you might see something you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Put a metal scraper on the base before you hit it and it won't leave a mark from the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Titinal is usually only on the top just under the top sheet, but i've been wrong before. Send us a pic after you've beaten it down ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Well, I beat the rear bump, the one in the original picture, down using the screwdriver method and it worked pretty well but not perfect. Before I go nuts I am going to call Prior and talk to them about it, partially because of these pics below. I believe there is an insert in the middle of the board that is hidden! There is NOT a hole above it! Is this normal practice that they would screw up an insert and then hide it?? Also, would the other inserts get pushed down a bit even if I didn't put any screws in them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't worry about that little nubbin on the base. There is no "hidden insert" Every Prior I have has that. I assume it has something to do with their manufacturing process. As for the other bump, yeah your screws are too long. Grind (or file, although it is going to be a lot of filing) them down to the appropriate length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Use a dremel or rotozip, and a metal cutting disc on your bolts. Put the bolts in a vice with the jaws on the head of the bolts, or put a couple of nuts on it, and put those in the jaws of the vice. Yeah, you need shorter bolts. With the roto-zip/dremel cutting disc, you can have this done in a couple of minutes per bolt. It's an hours work or so including the filing, and running them through a die afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 you most likely did not dent the titanal, as most boards I have seen have holes in the titanal around the inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Click here 1:38mins for a good pic. At least that's how Donek does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Thank you everyone for the help and comments! I watched the video and hopefully Prior also builds them like that, if they have the metal below the core. I have e-mailed Prior to ask them the best way to fix it to make sure I am doing things how they should be so I do not mess up the warranty or the board. Scrutton - I have cuts bolts using your method so I will probably do that. I can get it accurate enough to cut off 1mm or about a thread. I will post the reply from Prior if it is cleared from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 the dent in the middle of the board, is that in the true middle, like center of entire board, or just center of board, like width, where is it in the lengeth of the board and how big is it? there should be 2 alignment pins, that may create a slight dent in the base, they would be in the middle width wise, but one up near the tip and one near the tail, on the flat surface still, a little before the bend for tip and tail, I do not have a board in front of me to measure. on my prior, the spots from them are quite small, like the size of the part of a pen that you would push, and it would "click" and push the tip out of the body of the pen sorry if this was confusing, without real measurements or pictures in front of me, its hard to describe exactly where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 the dent in the middle of the board, is that in the true middle, like center of entire board, or just center of board, like width, where is it in the lengeth of the board and how big is it? As far as the size I would say it is almost exactly like the one I created with the slightly long screw. To my recollection it is darn near the middle (width) of the board. You can kind of confirm this by looking at the 1st and 2nd picture. You can see the inserts for the bindings and the mystery bump looks to be in the middle of those. there should be 2 alignment pins, that may create a slight dent in the base, they would be in the middle width wise, but one up near the tip and one near the tail, on the flat surface still, a little before the bend for tip and tail, I do not have a board in front of me to measure. The pictures you see above are of the mystery bump. I would say it is 1 inch toward the rear of the board from the last set of inserts for the front foot. However, this is nowhere NEAR the tip or tail but when I think about it I would say it is close to the true middle of the board. on my prior, the spots from them are quite small, like the size of the part of a pen that you would push, and it would "click" and push the tip out of the body of the pensorry if this was confusing, without real measurements or pictures in front of me, its hard to describe exactly where. Hopefully they will get back to me soon. In the mean time I will bust out the dremel tonight to cut down the bolts a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hopefully they will get back to me soon. In the mean time I will bust out the dremel tonight to cut down the bolts a bit. Not a good idea, this could lead to stripped inserts on your new board. Do your self a favor and call Bomber and get yourself the correct TD2 screws, get some bomber butter as well which will help in reducing stripped inserts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Not a good idea, this could lead to stripped inserts on your new board. Do your self a favor and call Bomber and get yourself the correct TD2 screws, get some bomber butter as well which will help in reducing stripped inserts. Maybe I didn't mention it here but I do have the correct screws, from Bomber. Maybe I will put a straight edge on all of them to see how accurate they are. Also, I think part of the problem could come from an insert being higher to the absolute top of the board, correct? If the insert is higher my screw will thread in more, pushing down the insert. In theory I suppose there should be more base material below the insert but I want to talk to Prior about it. I know that if they are not long enough the holding power is lost and that is when I will strip them so a bump is probably better than a stripped insert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 How many full turns are you getting on those screws....hate to reopen that nutshell...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I will have to count but I can tell you this. With no bindings I hand screwed in the bolt to see how far the bottom was. Then, I put just the 4x4 disc on and put in the same screw and it almost bottomed out just tightening it by hand. I would imagine that I am getting them in all of the way if I am dimpling them:) I will test all of this out in every insert I used and report back as well as post some more pictures for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXFR70 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 that dimple is probably the pin I referenced, not positive though, hard to see where it is on the length of the board. I will look at mine tonight if someone else does not chime in with a more definitive location for the pins in the mean time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donek Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 If you've mounted this board while on the hill, there is likely nothing wrong with your screw length. It is actually very difficult to achieve a bump like this with just a screw in the insert. It is, however, very easy to do if you mount your bindings while there is snow in the inserts. It's also quite easy to do if there is a buildup of threadlock in the bottom of the inserts, or epoxy left in the insert from manufacturing. Reducing the number of threads you engage by shortening your screw could be very unsafe. To find out if your screw is the appropriate length, turn it into the insert by hand and count the number of turns, then count the number of turns when mounting the binding. If you are getting fewer turns when mounting your binding, your screw is not too long. You should see at least 3 turns on the screw when mounting your binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 If you've mounted this board while on the hill, there is likely nothing wrong with your screw length. It is actually very difficult to achieve a bump like this with just a screw in the insert. This was a brand spankin' new board. Here is exactly what I did. I unwrapped the board, inspected it, giggled like a little school girl, and then went to mount the bindings. I used the TD-2 screws, TD-2 orange elastomers, and 3 degree 4x4 TD-2 canting disc. I first made sure the elastomer was firmly engaged in the canting disc so it was nice and smooth. I put the disc in and then put the assembly onto the board. I lightly screwed in 4 screws and then snugged them just about 1/4 turn. I certaiinly did not crank on them like the Incredible Hulk. This was all done in my toasty basement. It is, however, very easy to do if you mount your bindings while there is snow in the inserts. It's also quite easy to do if there is a buildup of threadlock in the bottom of the inserts, or epoxy left in the insert from manufacturing. Reducing the number of threads you engage by shortening your screw could be very unsafe. There was definetly no snow, no threadlock, and no epoxy as I just did some inspecting last night. To find out if your screw is the appropriate length, turn it into the insert by hand and count the number of turns, then count the number of turns when mounting the binding. If you are getting fewer turns when mounting your binding, your screw is not too long. You should see at least 3 turns on the screw when mounting your binding. So after more inspection I got just under 3 turns with the binding mounted but before I totally snugged them so that seems correct. However, since I have a caliper that also measures depth I measured everything and here is what I found. Screws - Almost all of them were 22/32nds. A couple were 23/32nds so I put those aside and used some spares that I have that were 22/32nds. Bottom of inserts to top of board - The 2x3 inserts nearest to the middle of the board, the thickest part of the baoard, were 9/32nds deep and the 2x3 inserts furthest from the middle were 8/32nds. One of them was closer to 7/32nds but I was not using that insert. Bottom of metal 4x4 TD-2 disc to bottom of screw - I stuck a screw through the disc without mounting it and I measured 8/32nds of protrusion. My thoughts - So it would seem that I am not dimpling the inserts and if I am the maximum would be 1/32nd. So if I am not dimpling them why are they there? Hypothesis - Did I force the inserts down a bit from the flex of the board? I measured the thickness of the board, subtracted out the insert depth, and I got a base thickness of 1/16", assuming the inserts are just above the base. More importantly, I am probably making this out to be a bigger deal than it is but it is a brand new board and I wanted to make sure everything is working right. I also don't want to attach the bindings without making sure everything is on correctly. Thanks for everyone's help. I haven't heard from Prior yet. p.s. my caliper was not metric, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 So I spoke with a rep at Prior about this and got some information. The big dimple you can see in all of the pictures is one of their "centering pins." It is made of plastic and is supposed to melt in the pressing process. It would appear that mine did not melt enough, or whatever, and when the board was flexed it pushed out the bottom. As far as denting the insert I have mixed opinions on that since Sean Donek says it is pretty hard to do but other people have done it. I measured everything and I don't think I could have pushed it more than 1/32nd so my opinion is that the base is thin and the flex of the board is popping things out. They have been very helpful so far so I am posting this info just so other people know what this is if it appears on their board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrocks Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I used the TD-2 screws, TD-2 orange elastomers, and 3 degree 4x4 TD-2 canting disc. Any chance you might have recieved TD 3 screws? They are a 4 mm longer. 20mm for TD-3, 16mm for TD-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Any chance you might have recieved TD 3 screws? They are a 4 mm longer. 20mm for TD-3, 16mm for TD-2. No but thanks for the heads up because I didn't know that. If I convert it correctly I get 22/32nds = .6875 .6875 * 25.4 = 17.4625. Hmm, now that I do the math that seems odd. 21/32nds gets me to 16.67 and 20/32nds gets me to 15.875. Either way I measured the depth of the inserts and I think I should take off 1/32nd with a file. I am going to do a test tonight with the approval of Prior. I will hammer down the bumps as they prescribe, file down the bolts 1/32nd, and then mount everything. I will then flex my board by hand a bit and see what happens. If I do not get anything I will strap it on and do some light nose and tail flex and then look. It the dimples appear again there is definitely an issue. If they don't, maybe it was just some initial shifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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