bumpyride Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hardboots/softboots. It's all about how your particular system interfaces with the conditions and board you're riding with/in. Very flexible 3 buckle Raichle 123's with a F2 Challenge Comp (plastic stepin) riden with BTS/walk mode, are very flexy and surfy whereas a 4 buckle full blown race boot with a ridgid Catek or first generation Bomber can be like cement overshoes in powder if you're a small guy. I think a person has to determine what that particular interface does for the existing conditions, and change to what works best. I don't know anyone who would ride a road bike with sewn tires on a downhill mountain bike course. I would expect pretty much the same for your on piste/off piste setups, unless you ride wild and loose to start out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Rob, it's good to see that your following along and paying attention. I for one appreciate your keen grasp of the obvious. Thanks! Pretty sure that you wouldn't take your silly noboard to the places that I go, just saying thats all, don't get mad.;)Think Snow! No problem! More qualified folks than yourself have doubted it (like every heli and cat guide I've ever gone out with) and then eaten their words. You did say, however, that you were "pretty" sure, so you have left the option open to be wrong. All I can say is that if the snow is there, it doesn't make much difference whether you're strapped in or not. Interior BC old growth and clearcuts full of cliffs and holes is pretty technical terrain, so if your riding zones are heavier than that, my hat's off to you, but somehow, I don't see you as one of the boys who's in the air half the time. If you were, you'd be in SB's because edging doesn't matter up there. I see you as a guy who likes to turn. If that's the case, you'd have a day full of surprises coming to you if we went out in big snow! As for the Virus in pow, I have ridden one enough to know that if I found myself in deep, I would want to be in the open, so I could pin it. This is a type of "performance". I didn't say it would perform well, just that it would have some kind of riding characteristic. To tell the truth, I don't know what I'd rather be "trapped" in powder on... The Virus, or a twin 150 park board. Both to me would be trouble, but not unrideable. Just to lighten it up, I might put soft boots on the Virus and tahe the binders off the 150... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Do you really think a 12 wide skwal would work in pow, I think not. Think not. Do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 My personal answer: "It Depends". Never had any issues riding untracked powder in either hard or soft boots. It's what happens when powder gets tracked, compressed, or windpacked where I start having preferences, or if it's not deep enough to cover bumps or hard snow, or if it's deep fresh snow but not powder. For situations where I can see what's going on and am not going to be surprised by what lurks underneath the surface, I like hardboots. Windpack is the best example of that- generally, snow that is soft enough where I can cut through irregularities, but dense enough where I'm staying mostly on the surface. Snow that's tracked but fluffy, where I'm not hitting bumps underneath, six and one-half dozen the other. Fresh-over-bumps, anything that's tracked in such a way where it's not trivial to just slice through it, I prefer softies. Ditto for untracked, deep, non-powder (Cascade Concrete, Sierra Cement) Reasons: - In conditions such as this, I find leverage across to the board to be a good thing, sideways leverage to be counterproductive, i.e., low angles. Yeah, I could ride plates at low angles, but there's more... - I find a lower stack height helpful in such conditions for increased feel of the snow. I could ride plates, if I felt like going with Burton Ibex and get this. - I'm looking for Off Road not Sports Car handling in such situations. Sports Car handling when you're dealing with hidden bumps etc just isn't fun. Put it all together and softies seem like the obvious choice. For me anyways. Of course, I have both hard boots and soft that fit very comfortably. To those that are choosing based on comfort, clearly one set of boots or the other doesn't fit you very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Ironically, I'd probably win, with no bindings and Sorels. There would, however, be a protest, because Snowman would say he's better and he's probably right, because to him, he is and this is the real point: You'll always have more fun, even sucking, committing wanton powder crimes, in your own body, than you possibly can watching someone else shred in theirs. LMAO! It is true that at the end of the day, at some point, arguing snowboarding is like saying "you're not having fun correctly!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Everything performs in powder, if you can ride well. ... Ironically, I'd probably win, with no bindings and Sorels. I've ridden with a few good no-boarders (including the odd prodigy of Mr K, riding something similar to a no-board) out of various cats and heli, all of them have ripped. From personal experience I can confirm some more bleeding obvious stuff: hard boots definitely suck on no-boards. Maybe that's one thing people could agree on, although I'd not bet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraph Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 My personal answer: "It Depends".Never had any issues riding untracked powder in either hard or soft boots. It's what happens when powder gets tracked, compressed, or windpacked where I start having preferences, or if it's not deep enough to cover bumps or hard snow, or if it's deep fresh snow but not powder. For situations where I can see what's going on and am not going to be surprised by what lurks underneath the surface, I like hardboots. Windpack is the best example of that- generally, snow that is soft enough where I can cut through irregularities, but dense enough where I'm staying mostly on the surface. Snow that's tracked but fluffy, where I'm not hitting bumps underneath, six and one-half dozen the other. Fresh-over-bumps, anything that's tracked in such a way where it's not trivial to just slice through it, I prefer softies. Ditto for untracked, deep, non-powder (Cascade Concrete, Sierra Cement) Reasons: - In conditions such as this, I find leverage across to the board to be a good thing, sideways leverage to be counterproductive, i.e., low angles. Yeah, I could ride plates at low angles, but there's more... - I find a lower stack height helpful in such conditions for increased feel of the snow. I could ride plates, if I felt like going with Burton Ibex and get this. - I'm looking for Off Road not Sports Car handling in such situations. Sports Car handling when you're dealing with hidden bumps etc just isn't fun. Put it all together and softies seem like the obvious choice. For me anyways. Of course, I have both hard boots and soft that fit very comfortably. To those that are choosing based on comfort, clearly one set of boots or the other doesn't fit you very well. Agreed and well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Think not. Do. Yah Dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 No problem!More qualified folks than yourself have doubted it (like every heli and cat guide I've ever gone out with) and then eaten their words. Yeah, your probably right.:lol: Think Snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 LMAO! It is true that at the end of the day, at some point, arguing snowboarding is like saying "you're not having fun correctly!"Perfect Jack, Perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 My personal answer: "It Depends".Never had any issues riding untracked powder in either hard or soft boots. It's what happens when powder gets tracked, compressed, or windpacked where I start having preferences, or if it's not deep enough to cover bumps or hard snow, or if it's deep fresh snow but not powder. For situations where I can see what's going on and am not going to be surprised by what lurks underneath the surface, I like hardboots. Windpack is the best example of that- generally, snow that is soft enough where I can cut through irregularities, but dense enough where I'm staying mostly on the surface. Snow that's tracked but fluffy, where I'm not hitting bumps underneath, six and one-half dozen the other. Fresh-over-bumps, anything that's tracked in such a way where it's not trivial to just slice through it, I prefer softies. Ditto for untracked, deep, non-powder (Cascade Concrete, Sierra Cement) Reasons: - In conditions such as this, I find leverage across to the board to be a good thing, sideways leverage to be counterproductive, i.e., low angles. Yeah, I could ride plates at low angles, but there's more... - I find a lower stack height helpful in such conditions for increased feel of the snow. I could ride plates, if I felt like going with Burton Ibex and get this. - I'm looking for Off Road not Sports Car handling in such situations. Sports Car handling when you're dealing with hidden bumps etc just isn't fun. Put it all together and softies seem like the obvious choice. For me anyways. Of course, I have both hard boots and soft that fit very comfortably. To those that are choosing based on comfort, clearly one set of boots or the other doesn't fit you very well. +2 on that , which is where I was trying to get with this. For me on untracked, the hardboots were fine. Once everything got tracked out moguled up and torn apart, every bump felt like survival mode of "Don't break your leg again..." Softboots just always felt better for ME in powder. It's like when I find my little s2000 out on the crappiest roads with massive potholes that would cause flat tires (kind of like a broken leg) if gone over at speed. I'd much rather have my 4x4 gmc sierra, throw in the lack of any sort of paved road at all, and it swings even more heavily in that favor. Subaru STI? only on a rallyish type of dirt road, but not in sand dunes or mud pits... (enough car analogies from me) I've never had the opportunity to go heliboarding or on cat trips, so resort powder is what i deal with, and at Mammoth after a weekend of a 4' dump, it sure feels bottomless when I sink in to my chest after getting first tracks and screwing up and crashing (thus having to dig myself out). After the first 3-4 runs, it turns into survival mode if i'm on HBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 there's no problem with hardboots on/in ANY snow conditions - if you met some required conditions: basic skills + extensive experience. if some equipment allows you to trade in those for some simple way in: good to you, but don't blame equipment - it's only you :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoetrencher Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Tufty gets the post of the season award. Thanks for making a poor read worth it. Now where's Snowman, local pow and my sl board... $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Now where's Snowman, local pow and my sl board... $ I'm not quite that stupid. Right tool for the job, ride a noboard or if your boneheaded enough a SL deck in the powder;but, the Turbo Fish is an unstoppable powder machine, big turns or small, tight trees or wide open high speed faces, I gaurentee that your not going to follow me. Try as you might. Think Snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoetrencher Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 What, you don't even leave tracks? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 What, you don't even leave tracks?:rolleyes: Yes, I do! It's the tracks that go into the places that your too scared to go. Thats of course when I am not levitating on my prototype hoverboard, no skill required to ride , should be a big hit with lots of folks here. Think Snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm not quite that stupid. Right tool for the job, ride a noboard or if your boneheaded enough a SL deck in the powder;but, the Turbo Fish is an unstoppable powder machine, big turns or small, tight trees or wide open high speed faces, I gaurentee that your not going to follow me. Try as you might.Think Snow! I might have tried to follow you a few years ago, before I snagged my brand-new coat on a sharp little dead fir snag and ripped it clear down the front. An inch closer and it wouldn't have been just my sweater hanging out. There's gutless and then there's gutless. Keep a little in hand out there, my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I might have tried to follow you a few years ago, before I snagged my brand-new coat on a sharp little dead fir snag and ripped it clear down the front. An inch closer and it wouldn't have been just my sweater hanging out. There's gutless and then there's gutless. Keep a little in hand out there, my friend. Ripped coats and slightly battered bodies are sometimes the price of admission. I have a seamstress whom I trade firewood for clothing repairs and I keep her quite busy all year long with logging and riding clothing destruction. I have taken a few good shots but at the saying goes, that which does not kill you! If you want to goods you have to pay the price. It isn't free and does require skill. Just because you own the board doesn't mean you can ride it. Think Snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Tufty gets the post of the season award. Yay me! I should note that the photo is not of me (I have neither the mad skillz nor the photographer in tow) but of Shama, the creator of the fall'us powder skwal http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1648. I know where that photo was taken, and it's hairy as hell. The man can ride. Still, took my panther out this morning, 20cm of dry powder over groom, and then into the scrub and trees, where there was getting on for 30cm untouched. A hoot, but cut short due to havingto get to work. At midday it was all sticky chop and tourists, but loads of fun nonetheless. Groom tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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