Seeking Winter Vehicle Advice

[MUD]

It needs rear rotors (and pads I assume). Gonna do the rotors and pads myself since that's a pretty simple task, I just have to look up torque specs for all the bolts involved, and figure out what pads/rotors to get.

If it needs rear rotors and pads, there is a good chance you will need to replace the calipers as well. Not for sure, but consider it in the budget. Unless the previous owner was REALLY diligent with replacing the brace fluid periodically. I never had problems with the fronts, just the rears.....

This is just my experience with that era Subaru's.

[Corey]

Congrats on the new transportation!

There is always the option of pulling a few key fuses/relays to immobilize it. The fuel pump is the first one that comes to mind. Another suggestion is to keep the interior absolutely empty, including the glove box(es), and leave them open. Many thieves are looking for ipods and the like that they can sell quickly. Loudly showing that there's nothing of value may cause them to pick the next vehicle down the street.

Disconnecting the battery may be handy too, especially if it's going to sit for more than week at a time without being driven. All cars pull a small amount of current even when off, it can kill a battery pretty quickly. It sucks to be pumped to go riding and you come out to a car that won't start. :( You'll lose your radio station presets though.

[Bora20]

Why wouldn't you insure it for theft if you are so worried about it? No one cares about car alarms going off anyway.

Our provincial insurance company has options for theft. It can be bundled with full comprehensive or taken as a stand alone item. I am sure you will find the same if you shop around.

[queequeg]

Why wouldn't you insure it for theft if you are so worried about it? No one cares about car alarms going off anyway.

Our provincial insurance company has options for theft. It can be bundled with full comprehensive or taken as a stand alone item. I am sure you will find the same if you shop around.

I live in New York City. Insuring a car for theft here more than doubles my insurance costs. This is a cheap car, I bought it cheap so that it wouldn't be the end of the world if it were stolen, and because the only reason I'm buying it is to get up to the mountain (since driving is basically pointless in NYC). The probability of it being stolen is actually quite low, (particularly as this vehicle is apparently very uninteresting to thieves), but I will be trying to keep it as low as possible by using as many preventative/deterrent measures as possible without being a nuisance to myself.

[queequeg]

Congrats on the new transportation!

There is always the option of pulling a few key fuses/relays to immobilize it. The fuel pump is the first one that comes to mind. Another suggestion is to keep the interior absolutely empty, including the glove box(es), and leave them open. Many thieves are looking for ipods and the like that they can sell quickly. Loudly showing that there's nothing of value may cause them to pick the next vehicle down the street.

Disconnecting the battery may be handy too, especially if it's going to sit for more than week at a time without being driven. All cars pull a small amount of current even when off, it can kill a battery pretty quickly. It sucks to be pumped to go riding and you come out to a car that won't start. :( You'll lose your radio station presets though.

Thanks - yeah I haven't exactly figured out where I am going to put the kill switches, but I'm going to do one on the ignition and another on the fuel pump. That in combination with a steering wheel and floorboard lock should be a pretty good deterrent. I don't want to go crazy here but it seems like spending an afternoon wiring in some well-hidden kill switches will buy me some peace of mind.

I found a cheap parking spot in my neighborhood this weekend, so I'm going to spring for that if it looks secure enough. I'd been planning on street parking it but the added convenience of a reserved parking space off the street seems like a good idea. I figure it'll be a bit more secure that way.

It'll get used once a week during the winter and probably at least once a month during the summer so I'm not too worried about the battery.

If memory serves, the computer may be up front under the passenger side carpet, protected from feet by a stamped steel bracket. You'll probably want to leave it there.

There goes that idea!

Early Subaru required engine removal for clutch replacement. You can do the later cars in the conventional manner, in which case both axles would be removed en route.

The mechanic thinks that the clutch might just need to be bled, (that would be awesome if it turned out to be true). If not I guess I'll have him check out the timing belt while he's in there. What I have read about this particular car is that you can do it either way, but that it is easier to take out the engine.

[queequeg]

If it needs rear rotors and pads, there is a good chance you will need to replace the calipers as well. Not for sure, but consider it in the budget.

Mechanic seemed to think it was just the rotors and pads, they gave it a pretty thorough looking over.

[queequeg]

Welcome to the wonderful world of car ownership.

Some advice:

Become a member of the biggest Subaru internet forum. You'll likely find lots of great tips & advice on problems & repairs. I have diagnosed & fixed many problems for free from some very helpful people clear across the country. It's amazing how some people will walk you step-by-step through a process, hold your hand, take photos, videos, etc. for free. One of the best things about the internet.

Don't be afraid to tackle at least simple tasks yourself. You'll save yourself a lot of money. Also, if you choose not to fix a problem yourself, at least you'll go into the repair shop armed with knowledge.

I've only replaced one clutch (non- Subaru). It required parting the engine & transmission but not removing the engine. Subaru could likely be different.

Axles are pretty easy to replace as well. Just get a quality rebuilt or new axle. Removal & installation is pretty straightforward.

I bought 4 brand-new Brembo rotors from Amazon shipped to my door for about $160. Could not find a better deal. Usually brakes are a dirty but pretty straightforward job.

It's odd hearing people concerned about theft. I never really think about it.

Good luck.

I'm on subaruforester.org, lots of good info there! I'm not super concerned about theft but I do live in NYC and cars do get stolen so it makes sense to take some precautions. I've decided to park it off street in a rented spot so that will make it a bit safer I suppose. I've got rotors and pads on the way for the brake job, which I am sort of looking forward to. I'm hoping the clutch just needs to be bled, there is a good chance of that apparently ... would save me a bundle of money :)

[John Gilmour]

Buy some fake dog doo. Put it on a Depends diaper- and smear some brown felt tip near it for effect. leave it on the passenger seat.or on the shifter. leave Depends wrappers in the car. Add some fake vomit and some hazmat plastic bags on the rear seat and your good to go. Photoshop a lo-jack sticker while you are at it and put it on your window. Get a photo of some body builder with a Doberman and put that on your dash. A Semper Fi sticker doesn't hurt either. That way the guy ripping off the car thinks he has to contend with a huge marine.

Leave a huge dog collar in there too.

Your car is instantly theft proof.

I lived in Boston in Kenmore Square, which had the highest rate of theft for cars in the USA in the 1980's. A skateboarder friend who worked for the city gave me a "retired" Denver boot- so I booted my own car. My friend who live across the street lost 3 cars in 18 months to thieves. I had mine for 8 years.

[Beckmann AG]

If you don't care about your radio presets, the simplest way to disable the car is with a rotary mains disconnect on the battery ground. These are common to heavy machinery, relatively cheap, and small enough that the switch toggle could be secreted up high on the firewall.

(If you go this route, or similar, ensure that the minor battery grounds also go through the disconnect, to avoid backfeed).

And then a window sticker stating "Battery has been removed from car".

Care to describe the nature of the clutch problem?

Does it slip, chatter, engage abruptly...

If the clutch needs to be bled, that won't require any real work for a quick fix, but the affected components will need to be thoroughly cleaned out or replaced for long term reliability.

[queequeg]

If you don't care about your radio presets, the simplest way to disable the car is with a rotary mains disconnect on the battery ground. These are common to heavy machinery, relatively cheap, and small enough that the switch toggle could be secreted up high on the firewall.

(If you go this route, or similar, ensure that the minor battery grounds also go through the disconnect, to avoid backfeed).

And then a window sticker stating "Battery has been removed from car".

Care to describe the nature of the clutch problem?

Does it slip, chatter, engage abruptly...

If the clutch needs to be bled, that won't require any real work for a quick fix, but the affected components will need to be thoroughly cleaned out or replaced for long term reliability.

Thanks, The pedal feels fine but if I put it in third and stomp on the gas, the engine winds up a lot quicker than the car jumps forward so it seems like it's slipping. My gut says I need a new clutch. It does not engage abruptly, it engages very smoothly. I don't notice any chatter (though I haven't driven the car a ton yet). I'm sure I can get away with not changing it right away, but if it gives me an opportunity to take a peek at the timing belt etc ... might as well.

[Beckmann AG]

The pedal feels fine but if I put it in third and stomp on the gas, the engine winds up a lot quicker than the car jumps forward so it seems like it's slipping. My gut says I need a new clutch

Your gut speaks the truth. Bleeding the system would be a waste of time.

On flat ground, you can probably get a few thousand miles out of the worn disc, so long as you leave your anvil collection at home.

[Corey]

Yup, that's a dead clutch. The typical test is to cruise at a given speed in 5th gear, then dip the clutch in and let the RPM climb ~2000 rpm. Then let the clutch out fairly aggressively. If the RPM snaps back quickly to where it was, then the clutch is fine. If it lazily returns to the previous RPM then the clutch is on borrowed time.

Yours is completely shot if it slips in 3rd. The good news is that you'll be good to go for a while with the new clutch. :)

[queequeg]

Thanks guys, that's what I figured. Changing the clutch will give me the opportunity to have a bunch of other things checked out on this new-to-me engine anyhow, so while I'll be parting with some cash to do it - it'll earn me some worthwhile peace of mind. Besides, my anvil collection is indispensable.

[Corey]

One good tip for any Subaru owner: you have the means to shatter 1st and/or 2nd gear by hard shifting on dry roads. That is, banging into the next gear hard and letting the clutch out very fast. Basically driving it like a kid in their parents car for the first time. On a FWD or RWD car the tires would just spin to take up the shock, but not in an AWD vehicle.

Been there, done that. :( Just get the clutch fully engaged before getting back on the throttle and you can beat on them all day long.

[queequeg]

One good tip for any Subaru owner: you have the means to shatter 1st and/or 2nd gear by hard shifting on dry roads. That is, banging into the next gear hard and letting the clutch out very fast. Basically driving it like a kid in their parents car for the first time. On a FWD or RWD car the tires would just spin to take up the shock, but not in an AWD vehicle.

Been there, done that. :( Just get the clutch fully engaged before getting back on the throttle and you can beat on them all day long.

This is much appreciated advice! I'm generally pretty ginger with the clutch, though I'm going to try to learn to let it in and out a little quicker to save on wear and tear. Also trying to get into the habit of putting it in neutral at stop lights to save wear on the bearing. Finally got to drive it around last night with the new clutch installed and it's got WAY more pickup than it did before ... that old clutch was slipping ALOT car has a lot more power than I was expecting.

The headlights don't seem very bright, I might change those out for something better. The mechanic said it would need new struts eventually and the ride isn't that great (though certainly acceptable) so I'm just going to go ahead and do the struts. I don't want to wait until it is too cold to do it comfortably, and it doesn't make sense to do it in the spring if this is going to be a winter car. Once that is done, It should be good. I figure I can do the blizzaks when it gets a little colder.

I'm going to change the rear brakes (rotors + pads) this weekend, and all four struts next weekend ... doing that all myself, so hopefully it goes well and I don't lose any fingers dealing with the springs.

Oh and: mechanic had a look at the timing belt and said it looks recently changed. Engine runs like a champ!

[en93nsx]

The headlights don't seem very bright, I might change those out for something better.

!

Look into getting a wiring harness and upgraded bulbs for your Forester. Daniel Stern lighting is a great source of information for automotive lighting.

I have installed harnesses in a couple of my vehicles and it really is a night and day difference with upgraded bulbs.

[Beckmann AG]

and all four struts next weekend ... doing that all myself, so hopefully it goes well and I don't lose any fingers dealing with the springs.

If the front springs are 'rapid helix', you'll probably want access to a wall-mounted spring compressor.

[John E]

Don't know if you've done any brake jobs. They're all pretty much the same (with some annoying manufacturer specific differences). Usually a dirty job (brake dust). Depending on how long the calipers and rotors have been in place and what conditions it has been driven in (salt spray) the bolts can be pretty hard to break loose. Often the rotor is held to the wheel hub with a pair of large phillips head flat head screws. These can often be a real pain to get out. Also, the rotors may have rusted to the wheel hub and will need to be broken loose. Getting the rotors turned used to be pretty cheap but seems to have gotten more expensive (~$100 for 4). You might check into new rotors. As I posted earlier - I got 4 new Brembo rotors shipped to my door for $160 from Amazon. You will also need to bleed the brakes. This usually entails 2 people. One who can give direction and one who can follow. If the second person is your S.O. you may wind up in an argument.

As I think about all of this going to a place like Just Brakes might not be such a bad deal. I don't know what they charge.

I've done some struts in the past but not Subaru. This could range from easy in the back to pretty difficult in the front - don't know. Again, since these are likely original, the bolts could be pretty rusted in place.

Good luck & have fun.

[queequeg]

If the front springs are 'rapid helix', you'll probably want access to a wall-mounted spring compressor.

From what I've been reading (on subaruforester.org), people seem to be able to manage just fine with standard $40 compressors. I'm gonna see if I can rent a pair from a shop, since this is obviously A tool I won't be using much in the future. If I can rent something more hefty for under the cost of what it costs to buy something I can reuse, then I will. Obviously something burlier and safer would be preferable :).

Don't know if you've done any brake jobs. They're all pretty much the same (with some annoying manufacturer specific differences). Usually a dirty job (brake dust). Depending on how long the calipers and rotors have been in place and what conditions it has been driven in (salt spray) the bolts can be pretty hard to break loose. Often the rotor is held to the wheel hub with a pair of large phillips head flat head screws. These can often be a real pain to get out. Also, the rotors may have rusted to the wheel hub and will need to be broken loose. Getting the rotors turned used to be pretty cheap but seems to have gotten more expensive (~$100 for 4). You might check into new rotors. As I posted earlier - I got 4 new Brembo rotors shipped to my door for $160 from Amazon. You will also need to bleed the brakes. This usually entails 2 people. One who can give direction and one who can follow. If the second person is your S.O. you may wind up in an argument.

As I think about all of this going to a place like Just Brakes might not be such a bad deal. I don't know what they charge.

I've done some struts in the past but not Subaru. This could range from easy in the back to pretty difficult in the front - don't know. Again, since these are likely original, the bolts could be pretty rusted in place.

Good luck & have fun.

I've read up on the process for the brakes and the struts.

Brakes: seems like there are two screw holes in the rotors through which you can thread a bolt to push them off the hub via mechanically applied pressure. The rear rotors are in pretty bad shape, so I am expecting the bolts to be an absolute bitch to get off. From what I am reading, I don't need to bleed the brakes on a Forester to change rotors and pads. you just need to be careful not to let the caliper hang from the line while it is detached (I've seem people use zip-ties to hang them off the springs, and keep tension off the brake lines). I figure I might have to bleed the line when I do the struts? Don't see why but I'll find out.

Struts: I am going to just go ahead and assume that the struts are original, and that I'll be needing a breaking bar to get some of the bolts loose. Found one cheap on amazon, so I'm just going to get a hold of that. What I can't figure out is whether or not I need to buy a pass-through wrench or if my standard torque wrenches will work just fine. My understanding is that a pass-through wrench will make it easier, but that I can get it done just fine with a regular torque wrench? I'm trying to understand the advantages of a pass-through wrench. What makes it better than a standard torque wrench??? From what I've read, I should expect it to take about five hours or so to do all four, given that it's been awhile since I've done any wrenching.

I've got all the parts ordered (still waiting for the struts to arrive though). so I'm all set there. Now I'm just figuring out what tools I still need.

[Corey]

Did we mention the importance of jackstands? Never ever trust a jack by itself. Even after I get a car up on stands, I rock the car very hard in all directions to make sure it's stable. Better to tip then than once you've got your leg under it while pulling on a breaker bar.

I use a standard spring compressor that I got cheap, like this: http://diytoolsca.com/images/50604.jpg

Works just fine on Subaru WRX stuff. Just keep in mind that a compressed spring is a mechanical bomb. I spend as little time as possible with the ends pointed at me. Once it's off, leave it sitting on the ground on it's side.

Note that some Subarus use a mini drum brake for the parking brake. If the park brake is set, you can't get the rotor off. I think every Subaru mechanic has been burned by that once, whether they're willing to admit it or not. ;)

I like to double the 'expected' time. That's usually assuming you've got your fully stocked Snap-On tool box and air tools sitting right beside your car that's on a hoist. I find I spend a lot of time getting tools or just spinning on/off nuts.

Breaker bars rule. I have a 24" 1/2" drive one. It's my buddy, this can almost always get a nut off - whether it's by breaking it free or by breaking the bolt. Either way the stuff has to come apart! Deep sockets are handy, as are combination open/closed end wrenches. A few extensions of varying length are handy too. A tapered punch is handy to get the struts lined up with the hub holes too, but a screwdriver works in a pinch.

I've never used a pass-through socket set. They could be useful in some situations though.

You can disassemble most things on a Subaru with 10, 14, and 17mm wrenches. 12 and 19mm make a few appearances too.

One small tip: When using a breaker bar, often you'll find that you just can't quite get the socket on the nut. The end of the bar will hit the fender/brake/whatever and you just can't get the right angle. Take the socket off and rotate it 90 degrees on the breaker bar. Because the socket has 6 sides and the socket drive has 4, you get a small rotation that almost always lets you get the socket on the nut.

[queequeg]

Did we mention the importance of jackstands? Never ever trust a jack by itself. Even after I get a car up on stands, I rock the car very hard in all directions to make sure it's stable. Better to tip then than once you've got your leg under it while pulling on a breaker bar.

Oh hell no ... I've got proper stands. I'm not a TOTAL noob to this ya know. :-P

Note that some Subarus use a mini drum brake for the parking brake. If the park brake is set, you can't get the rotor off. I think every Subaru mechanic has been burned by that once, whether they're willing to admit it or not. ;)

Thanks - I'm SURE I would have been burned by this, as whenever I have any car up on stands I ususally have the ebrake on.

Breaker bars rule. I have a 24" 1/2" drive one. It's my buddy, this can almost always get a nut off - whether it's by breaking it free or by breaking the bolt. Either way the stuff has to come apart! Deep sockets are handy, as are combination open/closed end wrenches. A few extensions of varying length are handy too. A tapered punch is handy to get the struts lined up with the hub holes too, but a screwdriver works in a pinch.

Mine is only 18" so I might have to pick up a length of pipe to improve my leverage. I got some of that spray-on de-siezing crap too, so I'll be spraying the big bolts with that and whacking away at them with a mallet prior to actually trying to remove the bolts, since I'd prefer not to snap anything.

I've never used a pass-through socket set. They could be useful in some situations though. You can disassemble most things on a Subaru with 10, 14, and 17mm wrenches. 12 and 19mm make a few appearances too.

Me neither, a lot of people seemed to think that they are really helpful for this job. I'm going to skip on it, as with all the car-related crap I'm buying I don't need to spend any more on tools. I have a good set of metric combination wrenches so the closed side of those should suffice for any job that would require a pass through wrench.

[John E]

Jose - If you've not yet started this a tip on getting out the screws that hold the rotors to the wheel hubs:

These are usually #3 phillips heads. They are often difficult or impossible to get out because of rust. Use a hammer-type centerpunch and start a dimple at about the 9 o'clock position on the screw head. Once you have a dimple started, rotate the punch (while still hammering) so that you are driving the screw CCW. This may destroy the head of the screw but this almost always works. If it does destroy the screw, you should be able to get new ones at an auto parts store. These screws really only hold the rotor in place until you install the wheels. Then, the lug nuts hold the rotor in place.

Also, adjacent to the phillips head screws you should find some tapped holes. These are often M6. Use an M6 screw to insert into these holes and tighten. This will bear against the wheel hubs and force the rotors off the hubs.

[queequeg]

Jose - If you've not yet started this a tip on getting out the screws that hold the rotors to the wheel hubs:

These are usually #3 phillips heads. They are often difficult or impossible to get out because of rust. Use a hammer-type centerpunch and start a dimple at about the 9 o'clock position on the screw head. Once you have a dimple started, rotate the punch (while still hammering) so that you are driving the screw CCW. This may destroy the head of the screw but this almost always works. If it does destroy the screw, you should be able to get new ones at an auto parts store. These screws really only hold the rotor in place until you install the wheels. Then, the lug nuts hold the rotor in place.

Also, adjacent to the phillips head screws you should find some tapped holes. These are often M6. Use an M6 screw to insert into these holes and tighten. This will bear against the wheel hubs and force the rotors off the hubs.

Thanks John - I'm not sure that this car features the #3 philips bolts you are referring to (though it definitely has the M6 holes for bearing against the hubs to pop the rotors off. I *think* that the rotors simply rest on the lug threads until you bolt the wheel on with the lug bolts, because most of the tutorials suggest using a single lug nut to secure the rotor to the hub while doing other stuff without the wheels on.

[Corey]

Sorry about the jackstands comment, I assumed you were new to this. I thought you were super bold doing struts for your first job! ;)

I just swapped the struts in my Subaru STI this weekend, I think all the hardware should be identical. From memory, I needed:

- 12mm socket for the strut mounts, ABS wire, and brake line attaching point on the front strut

- hammer and flat head screwdriver to remove the brake line clip on the rear strut

- 19mm open/closed end wrench & socket for the strut bolts and a short extension to clear the brake rotor

- spring compressor and whatever size the top nut on the strut is. An impact gun is really nice to remove/tighten the top nut, just make sure the shock shaft doesn't spin much or you can wreck the shock seals. I just grab it with my hand* through the spring, or use a strap wrench.

* This may not be the smartest idea - I'm trusting the spring compressor. I figure even if the spring compressor fails catastrophically, at worst I'll get a wicked bruise on my arm.

Note that you'll want an alignment after replacing the front struts. The upper bolt controls camber, which also affects toe. You'll never get it in exactly the same position.

Getting the rear struts in is a pain. Get the upper bolts in the chassis first, you may need a helper inside the car to guide them in. Then once the nuts are on, you can work to line up the hub end. Get the lower bolt in first, then you can push on the hub to get the upper bolt in. You need an open-ended wrench to hold the lower nut as it's tight around the axle boot, then tighten from the bolt head.

[queequeg]

Sorry about the jackstands comment, I assumed you were new to this. I thought you were super bold doing struts for your first job! ;)

I just swapped the struts in my Subaru STI this weekend, I think all the hardware should be identical. From memory, I needed:

- 12mm socket for the strut mounts, ABS wire, and brake line attaching point on the front strut

- hammer and flat head screwdriver to remove the brake line clip on the rear strut

- 19mm open/closed end wrench & socket for the strut bolts and a short extension to clear the brake rotor

- spring compressor and whatever size the top nut on the strut is. An impact gun is really nice to remove/tighten the top nut, just make sure the shock shaft doesn't spin much or you can wreck the shock seals. I just grab it with my hand* through the spring, or use a strap wrench.

* This may not be the smartest idea - I'm trusting the spring compressor. I figure even if the spring compressor fails catastrophically, at worst I'll get a wicked bruise on my arm.

Note that you'll want an alignment after replacing the front struts. The upper bolt controls camber, which also affects toe. You'll never get it in exactly the same position.

Getting the rear struts in is a pain. Get the upper bolts in the chassis first, you may need a helper inside the car to guide them in. Then once the nuts are on, you can work to line up the hub end. Get the lower bolt in first, then you can push on the hub to get the upper bolt in. You need an open-ended wrench to hold the lower nut as it's tight around the axle boot, then tighten from the bolt head.

No worries - I AM new enough to this sort of thing that I should proceed with caution. This will be my first time doing anything in the wheel wells. I've replaced a catalytic converter, an o2 sensor, and an alternator in the past ... that's the extent of my experience. I've been reading up and watching as many videos as I can. Right now, what I am mostly afraid of is shearing off one of the bolt-heads while trying to remove the stuck bolts. I think I need to get some spare hardware on hand for peace of mind (and - might as well replace it while i'm in there). Two of the struts arrived today. Waiting for the other two, and the the strut mounts (replacing the mounts too while I'm in there).

I've heard those springs can do some pretty serious damage if you get hit by one ... and worse if the spring decompresses while you've got your hand between it and the mount. I'm going to be ridiculously cautious about that part. Some people have suggested you can buy yourself a bit of extra safety by using a set of vice grips to keep the spring pressing against the hooks once compressed (to prevent slippage). I'm wondering if I can use a length of split tubing in the jaws of a vice grip to grasp the strut tube (tube should prevent damaging the shaft) while I turn the main nut to keep my hands clear and prevent the shaft from rotating with the nut? Right now, that is my guess as to how I will do it without putting my hands in there.

I was wondering which was the more difficult job ... you say getting the rear struts installed is a pain, which was surprising to me since I figure all the steering components on the front end would make the front extra hard. When you factor in both the assembly and disassembly, is the rear end still more difficult? I am trying to figure out which axle I should begin with.

The day before I do the job I plan on hitting all relevant bolts with some de-siezing fluid and tapping them all a bit with a mallet to work it in. Hopefully that will make dealing with the bolts the next day a bit easier and quicker. I'll repeat the process in the morning before I begin.