Extreme carving vs carving

[griff]

Looking for feed back from carvers who once got down the basic carve going from a cross thru style that played around to the extreme carve style. My understanding is more upper body rotation with a focus on the push pull movement. That the extreme carving is more techique than equipment.

Again throwing it out there for what others have found.

[alexgforce]

Indeed EC is all about the technique.

Upper body rotation and push pull movement are key factors. Another important element however is the transition timing. When a rider ECs during the transition of each turn he actually dives into the turn and the board just follows. In basic carving you gradually apply pressure on the edge breaking at the waist with your outside (towards the turn) hand going towards the edge of the board. In EC your body dives into the turn which is often described as a "leap of faith" or "dive and drive". Of course that can only work on steep runs.

[scrutton]

In EC your body dives into the turn which is often described as a "leap of faith" or "dive and drive". Of course that can only work on steep runs.

Surely not? Doesn't it have more to do with your speed/outwards force and turn radius?

[alexgforce]

speed is important. But if you try to "dive" into the turn if the slope is not steep you are going to lose all of it and you are not going to have enough speed to go into the next turn. The board is going to stall.

Another important issue regarding the steepness is this. When you push yourself away from the board extending your body and dragging it on the snow it is much easier to get out of the turn when the slope is steep.

In addition on a steep slope you ride totaly accross the slope and "dive" downwards. This way you don't lose speed and you are able to perform fully layed out, long EC turns.

So in my opinion steep slopes are essential for EC turns.

[nils]

Alexis is right, its easier with steepness, and you can do it in amazingly steep slopes where normal carving with less "arc" turns would not be able to perform the same turns...( since doing a 90° arc will in the fall line would have to whistand huge G forces, needing huge legs, huge tech etc...not easy then)

EC is about technique, and is the extend of a rotational swiss technique: it can be done on any equipment, providing your timing is right, but its way easier with the right tools...

Basically the EC rotation technique is usefull for EC carving ( linking turns) but also very efficient in less extreme positions ( powder etc..) :)

Nils

[griff]

Great input-here is another question to throw our there is, I get all that has been said, at what point does snow condictions play into it? I know the ideal, is fresh packed powder but here in the northeast you can go from packed to ice all in the same run. So when on hard packed I would still believe you can still put down some pretty close EC carves but on ice.. how are EC boards? The issue with this sport is there is really no where to demo such boards. My two main boards is a Volkl 163 SL (great on ice) and a 170 AM Coiler (great all rounder). Going through the process of what is my next board going to be, does it make sense to get an EC carver for the thrill of EC carves that will perform on ice and be used as an AM carver could be the ticket if the feed back goes that way without doing a demo I rely on other riders to run it past for feed back. But being able to lay down a EC has to be a rush (coiler is pretty good for it but I know I am missing a few parts to really pull it off). So thats the short of why I started this thread.

[queequeg]

Great input-here is another question to throw our there is, I get all that has been said, at what point does snow condictions play into it? I know the ideal, is fresh packed powder but here in the northeast you can go from packed to ice all in the same run. So when on hard packed I would still believe you can still put down some pretty close EC carves but on ice.. how are EC boards? The issue with this sport is there is really no where to demo such boards. My two main boards is a Volkl 163 SL (great on ice) and a 170 AM Coiler (great all rounder). Going through the process of what is my next board going to be, does it make sense to get an EC carver for the thrill of EC carves that will perform on ice and be used as an AM carver could be the ticket if the feed back goes that way without doing a demo I rely on other riders to run it past for feed back. But being able to lay down a EC has to be a rush (coiler is pretty good for it but I know I am missing a few parts to really pull it off). So thats the short of why I started this thread.

Provided you aren't going mach-looney the push-pull aspect of EC technique tends to keep edge pressure pretty consistent throughout your turn, particularly on steeper slopes. I'm not an ECer per-se, but I do like the push-pull turns on steeper slopes and find that you can get pretty good grip on some really hard snow with this technique, provided it isn't bare ice. Super fun!

[boarderboy]

even ponder trying to learn EC as he returns from several years of 1-2 days per season of freecarving to hopefully 2-3 weeks on-slope per year.

I've always thought the technique looks truly awesome, but if increased body weight & old knees/ankles are issues, is Euro truly as stressful on the body as it looks?

Is it also true that you can get away with lower-cuff, flexier boots in this technique?

Thanks

BB (OF)

[pokkis]

I dont know you or your age but if you are not on high seventies then learning EC should be easy, and even if you are it is still doable.

Age is no limit, only mind and wallet

[BlueB]

My two main boards is a Volkl 163 SL (great on ice) and a 170 AM Coiler (great all rounder).

Coiler AM is very ECable board. Especially the new AMT 12m ones.

[Zone]

even ponder trying to learn EC

I've always thought the technique looks truly awesome, but if increased body weight & old knees/ankles are issues, is Euro truly as stressful on the body as it looks?

Is it also true that you can get away with lower-cuff, flexier boots in this technique?

BB (OF)

Not sure how old you are. I'm 45 and it's easier on the body than regular style in my opinion (except for the +++ sliding and eating snow , wearing out your gloves/jacket while learning)...mainly because it's does not require as much quads strength mid/end turns and you don't have to go at Mach speed even on steep, when you fall, you're already against the snow. It is a work out though with all the flexion/extension.

You ideally want really flexy boots so you can really compress before the turn and fully extend during the turn.

As for the boards, I think your Coiler AM will do, although as you progress or if you can afford, a Swoard makes learning and EC easier and more enjoyable. My new metal Coiler tongue depressor is very much equivalent but still need to watch my weight distribution a bit more early/mid EC curves vs the Swoard. The metal is great for icy/bumpy we get here though.

It took me for ever (and still) to learn around here (ontario) since we don't have steep wide slopes and it's harder to learn on hard snow. The guys from Tahoe are very lucky in that respect. Once learned, snow conditions does not matter so much, you can do it on pretty much any surface except bumpy.

[griff]

As for my age lets just say the mind is willing and most of the time the body catches up...my coiler is about 6 years old with >10R something like a 9.something I bought it off a friend..

I get the sword thing which funny is that web site after looking at the video's they have I was hooked but doing it was another thing. That was a few years ago and started to run gates with the local nastar and the guys I ride with are all speed freaks which I try to keep up but as last night proved diving my nose into a turn hit soft snow and the next thing I remember was looking up at the sky!!! So that deep carve back and forth is looking really good, plus its so cool to see and pull off when you can. Again what do you guys feel about an all rounder that is really built as an EC deck?

[pokkis]

I dont know what kind board you are after but Bruce at Coiler built me nice 177 NSR with 23cm wide waist. Damn i love it, now riding it with plate and it feels even more better. I've been riding gates also with it but certainly it is not best there but it is one hell board for any situation or surface, i can run it any style from flegmatic to ec one easily

[valsam]

speed is important. But if you try to "dive" into the turn if the slope is not steep you are going to lose all of it and you are not going to have enough speed to go into the next turn. The board is going to stall.

Another important issue regarding the steepness is this. When you push yourself away from the board extending your body and dragging it on the snow it is much easier to get out of the turn when the slope is steep.

In addition on a steep slope you ride totaly accross the slope and "dive" downwards. This way you don't lose speed and you are able to perform fully layed out, long EC turns.

So in my opinion steep slopes are essential for EC turns.

So Alex if steep slopes are essential for EC style turns (which i totally agree!)then why the hell do you and all your G-force buddies ride at mountains like Parnasos and Kaimak where there are none?

[Zanci]

The swoard is the best at ideal conditions.

I prefer pure race boards like SG, Sense or kessler.

I find it harder to EC with the sigi( need to be careful about the weight to the nose) . EC is all about the rotation.

[griff]

Really a race board I would not have thought since the tails tend to be tapered so not to finish the carve to a full C. My understanding is that is the biggest difference in a race to a EC also your stance on a race is set back as a EC is middle. Do I have the correct?

[boarderboy]

for the EC encouragement.

Just turned 63, so probably not out of the game yet. $$ and time/opportunity do play a part, but at my age, why wait!!?

Trying to satisfy the boot needs this year; metal board hopefully next.

salud

BB

[Zone]

If I were 63...I'd feel young but stiff (and I not talking Viagra stiff) and if I had the budget and can't wait, well I'd order a set of BTS from Bomber with softish springs and a Swoard (for 2 reasons: first is that I don't have to wait a few months to have a EC board semi customized to weight/height under my feet, and second, is that it is garanteed to work for EC). Don't get me wrong, I my VSR (for me, Bruce's third time is the charm and customer support is out of this world).

Have fun shopping and laying it out!

Life is too short.

[Bobby Buggs]

On most days I pretty much have the Ice coast style down. This thread has got me wanting to learn this EC style, just for the challenge. griff I am out here in western Ma and ride often at Berkshire East. Not sure if you would ever come out this way but it would be cool to have someone to get after this EC thing with.

[griff]

sounds good its always more fun when there are others to laugh with..Hey do you know dingbat? He's been out to Ward to run gates last year a few times as well as making some turns at Stratton at last years carving gathering. The main run at the beast would be the perfect run to try it out on that is when its not a sheet of ice. Wawa would be good in spots but too many people to work on it unless first runs or last runs. what do you ride most of the time?

[Bobby Buggs]

What or where?? what for this season is a Coiler 177 VSR, where is the Beast, Stratton or Snow. Occasionally Jimminy peak but I rarely go to those places on weekends, way to busy to just focus on carving. I try to hit them on Wednesdays. Thats why the Beast is good, for some reason there is always some space to use up in a carve even on weekends. And since its such a ski race training place most of the skiers can see and understand what we are doing.

[leeho730]

for the EC encouragement.

Just turned 63, so probably not out of the game yet. $$ and time/opportunity do play a part, but at my age, why wait!!?

Trying to satisfy the boot needs this year; metal board hopefully next.

salud

BB

As far as I know, Harald and Tore, who do extremecarving in Ojankaivajat (trench digging in Finnish) carving camp, are well over 68, and that was a few years ago. I believe Pokkis can shed more light on this.

[griff]

Zone thanks for the advise!! I know why fool around when the real deal for EC is there.. soft springs you say--I can see that in the soft stuff.. I wonder on hard pack to ice having the soft springs would work with the Sword in those changing condictions. Wait what I'm I thinking if the condictions suck that bad I'm in the bar bending my elbow!!!

[alexgforce]

So Alex if steep slopes are essential for EC style turns (which i totally agree!)then why the hell do you and all your G-force buddies ride at mountains like Parnasos and Kaimak where there are none?

So what you are saying is that Parnassos (including fterolaka) and kaimak does not have steep slopes? Makes me think, have you even been to these places?

According to you alpine snowboarding is only about EC? Someone who rides hard boots should only ride in steep slopes?

Me and my "G-force buddies" have been several times to Aspen for the SES and the Carving-Masters in Soelden since it started. Have you ever been to any of these places???

[bobdea]

you're welcome to try any of my boards.

kessler sl

coiler stubby

prior wcr 187

and soon to be a coiler nsr with the funky core

you know where I hang......