Duckfoot? Really?

[Mxjas38]

So I finally got to go riding for the first day this season, Snow was great and I even saw 4 other guys on hardboots!

One thing I did notice today was that almost everyone on soft boots was riding duckfoot. I must not have gotten that memo. Is this the new way everyone on soft boots is riding?

I may be missing something but wouldn't this really limit range of motion. The only advantage I could possibly see is that it would keep the hips square with the board, but at what other costs.

[Buell]

Nothing new. A number of them might be riding 0 or +3* and it just looks duck to those of us who ride very forward angles.

Duckfoot increases range of motion for some things like landing jumps. It also allows a more ambidextrous switch riding.

There are very few here who ride duck, ever.

Hips with binding angles I understand but I am not sure of any advantage to having your hips aligned with the long axis of the board.

Congrats on your first day of the season.

[wingnuts514]

I rode 15 and -15, dead center, 156cm board for 10 years. riding feels exactly the same regular and switch. Also gives the rider more balance for jibbing and rails. I think shaun white rides 15-15 as well and look what he can do! But my days of 25 foot rainbow rails are over. I'm riding 50/53 on my prior and 45/48 on my tanker.

[Bora20]

New riders and jibbers tend to use duck stance. Even pro shops set them up like that for new riders.

My wife took a refreshers lesson last year (she is pretty new) and they set her bindings up duck. She likes it, but usually goes down the hill slow and like the centered duck.

Mine soft boots are +30/+20 or +18/+6 depending on the day. I like to go down pointing one way. Going fakie for me usually ends with dislocated shoulders and missed work, both of which I don't want.

I also don't jump, just float through powder. Wonder why I switched to hard boots?

[dingbat]

Makes life in the rental shop way easier.

[Transistor Rhythm]

Set up your bindings to look like you're about to totally rock the park, then spend the only week per year you're in the mountains scraping off groomers. After a few years you make the switch to skiing because it feels so easy and natural.

[philw]

That's precisely how it works.

It's 100% duck in the UK. With our indoor and plastic slopes you don't have to ride from the lift to the park.

On the other point raised, the UK teaching style is very much to have both hips and shoulders aligned with the long-axis of the board. Here's the CASI text on the same thing:

"Feet, knees, hips and shoulders aligned at the same angle as the feet on the board"[/Quote]

Not very clear I'll admit, but their image on that page and the next are very clear. IMHO it's almost impossible to actually ride that way, and certainly impossible to safely make a heelside turn, but it's what they teach people. I was so lucky to learn before they invented instructors.

You see very little duck in heli/ snowcat back country. That may be because of the age of people who can afford to ride there. Or it could be because no one cares about skate-style ballet tricks in the forest.

[Mxjas38]

Hips with binding angles I understand but I am not sure of any advantage to having your hips aligned with the long axis of the board.

Sorry, this is what I was trying to say.

I do have a soft boot setup as well and ride at +15 front and +9 Rear, but what I saw yesterday was mostly about +15 front and -15 rear.

If you were to align your hips with front binding angle I feel it would really twist the rear hip in an unnatural position.

I used to be an instructor about 7 years ago and if a board came out of the rental shop like that it was sent back to be fixed.

Is this just another push towards everyone being a halfpipe rider and not all mountain.

Not trying to stir **** up just something I noticed more this year over last.

[newcarver]

Pretty much all corporate snowboarding is geared towards tricks. Spinning and flipping. This goes from urban riding, park, pipe and even backcountry is about hitting a big kicker now. Duck makes sense for this style of riding. Only place you won't see it is with carvers, BX, SL, and GS. Only the BX is popular, but you sure don't see any BX boards at your local shop.

[wingnuts514]

Sorry, this is what I was trying to say.

I do have a soft boot setup as well and ride at +15 front and +9 Rear, but what I saw yesterday was mostly about +15 front and -15 rear.

If you were to align your hips with front binding angle I feel it would really twist the rear hip in an unnatural position.

I used to be an instructor about 7 years ago and if a board came out of the rental shop like that it was sent back to be fixed.

Is this just another push towards everyone being a halfpipe rider and not all mountain.

Not trying to stir **** up just something I noticed more this year over last.

I have never even tried a pipe, I rode all mountain duckie and at the time it felt right

[BobD]

While you can't get full on hard boot type angulation at lower angles in soft boots, you can get some. Duck can only mean, pure sitting on the toilet on heel sides, and licking the boss's ass on toe sides.

It's not a bad idea to start new riders out with slight duck stance, but I'm sure we lose a lot of non park type people because of it. Most older (age 25+) beginners, only really want to go in one direction. I'm sure most instructors never tell them, that they have a choice of binding angles.

[Jack M]

Duck can only mean, pure sitting on the toilet on heel sides, and licking the boss's ass on toe sides.

:lol:

Santa is bringing my boy a board. It is set up 21/15.

[BlueB]

On the other point raised, the UK teaching style is very much to have both hips and shoulders aligned with the long-axis of the board. Here's the CASI text on the same thing:

"Feet, knees, hips and shoulders aligned at the same angle as the feet on the board"

I never red the UK texts, but CASI promotes body alignemt to the average angle of your feet, menaing 15/-15 feet = 0 body, 50/30 feet = 40 boody, etc. However, the majority of lower ranking instructors (mostly duck riders) choose to interpret this as "body parallel to the board". :(

[Jim]

I was 15/-15 in '93 when a hardboot team rider for Santa Cruz snowboards stopped me to ask why. I explained that I skated regular/goofy so I wanted the option on the snow. Hard on the knees now.

[Ian M]

I think three types of people ride duck:

• Jibbers
  
• Those who don't know better
  
• Instructors

On the weekend I did my first runs duck on my soft board. I chose that set-up to make it easier to work on my fakie riding, which is very weak from always riding very forward angles. It wasn't as bad as I expected, other than the horrible awkwardness that was skating.

As Jim mentioned above it seems a little harder on the knees, and it's also hard to avoid toilet-butt. I think both of those problems could be helped by a small amount of inward canting so that the knees are more in line between hips and ankles. I'm going to give that a try.

Cheers!

[b0ardski]

duck stance is required for heelside bulldozing the snow off steep powder runs:AR15firin:freak3:

As an old skool skier, alpine stance always felt more natural and comfortable, since '87.

I do get the whole ease of fakie thing but the knees & toes pointing different directions in gorilla stance causes pain in my rear knee & hip when I try to carve in either direction. So I learned to ride fakie heels first, i.e. buttwards. Only use a squatty stance when taking a crap in the woods.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think Rob Stevens who is a CASI bigwig said that he likes putting new riders duck because it doesn't force them to pick goofy or regular right away and it encourages an ambidextrous riding style. Maybe he'll see this thread and give a more detailed explanation.

[b0ardski]

Mrs. b0ardski (primarily a skier) learned to ride "ambidextrously", but not quite duck at around 5*/25* which worked out well for a level 1 instructor.

I learned what felt good before there was any such thing as a snowboard instructor so my bad habits are just part of my style.

Duck is appropriate for someone who doesn't know if they are regular or goofy, however it does ingrain gorilla stance and make's learning to carve alpine seem more foreign.

[Corey]

It's not even the same sport, but for some reason I feel way more comfortable in a duck-type stance on my longboard. I'm not doing tricks, just pumping around on sidewalks. In my head I'm riding a little snappy slalom snowboard while doing this. I tried a more alpine-type of stance and didn't like it. Weird.

Around here I sometimes see people with their front foot around +5 and rear foot around -10. And the tail is longer than the nose. (regular rider on goofy-setup board or vice-versa) I've stopped pointing it out to people as I didn't get friendly responses.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Around here I sometimes see people with their front foot around +5 and rear foot around -10. And the tail is longer than the nose. (regular rider on goofy-setup board or vice-versa) I've stopped pointing it out to people as I didn't get friendly responses.

I'll lay you odds that they are just riding the board backwards - they left it in whatever setup they got it from SportChek.

[Corey]

I'll lay you odds that they are just riding the board backwards - they left it in whatever setup they got it from SportChek.

Absolutely, responses have been a little colder than: "Why thank you, I'll fix that at my earliest convenience."

[xy9ine]

they left it in whatever setup they got it from SportChek.

now that's funny. sad but true. applies to bicycles as well (in equally horrid states of assembly).

[kantmakm]

I went out boarding with my son a couple weeks ago who only started boarding end of last season via a full day lesson. I noticed that when he released his rear foot to go to the lift he pumped on the heel side of the board, which I thought was strange. Then I realized that all the soft-boot boarders on the green hill were doing the same thing! I tried to get him to pump on the toe side of the board like a normal person, but no luck!

[Puddy Tat]

I went out boarding with my son a couple weeks ago who only started boarding end of last season via a full day lesson. I noticed that when he released his rear foot to go to the lift he pumped on the heel side of the board, which I thought was strange. Then I realized that all the soft-boot boarders on the green hill were doing the same thing! I tried to get him to pump on the toe side of the board like a normal person, but no luck!

Yeah I really don't understand that move at all. I don't know how you skate along without your center-of-mass somewhat over the board. One of the things I appreciate about alpine is that skating is so much easier with a 65 degree forward angle on the front foot.

[BlueB]

Set yourself with flat front foot angle on softies and try. You might find that it's actually a bit easier to paddle that way...