Got cash, but meagre talent: how much should I drop on a carving board?

[queequeg]

Go out and test as many boards as possible - you'll learn more about your preferences in a few hours on different decks than you can in a lifetime of asking questions online. As Ray noted, Virus has test dates in Europe where you can try some boards - I'd take advantage of that opportunity! You'll know it when you're on the right board, because you will not want to give it back! Have fun!

[Juha]

Go and try out everything you can find. Especially network with people who have same bootsize:biggthump

If you want to get the feel of a custom board brand, the only way is to ride that brands boards and ask the owner what he was looking for. So you need to ride with guys who have them, are your weight and you know their style.

After that you can make some sensible decisions and tell a custom builder what you are and what you are looking for.

If money is no objection, just e-mail all custom makers, tell what you are looking for and see their replies. Order the best proposal and ride the heck out of it:ices_ange Then order the next one:biggthump to get that extra...something you need

[pogokoenig]

Agree with most people here: Testing is the best thin to do and is also lot of fun.

But:

Don't overdo it.

because there might be something even more enjoyable?

This can be a trap. I know guys always looking for the best board and for the best price. I know other guys that just tested a board, ripped it and put the cash on the table afterwards. These guys are having fun and enjoy without all the hassle of finding the best opportunity. 1 Season of looking around is too much. It should be 3-4 days max and you are happy. If not, you won't get it ever.

[jacopodotti]

Tomahawk

Rasen im Antholzertal

Skiservice Sport Renzler by Bergfuchs

Tel. 0039 0474 498350

email: tomahawksnowboards@hotmail.com

[NateW]

The optimum outcome is you buying a board (or small quiver) that suits the way you like to ride and the places you like to ride. But, to get there you need to learn to ride, and find out what your preferences are.

So, I suggest buying a board with 'average' dimensions from the classifieds here - 170ish length, 19-20cm waist, 10-12m sidecut, more or less. Then buy a couple boards with more and less sidecut, different widths, different lengths, and something stiffer. When you know what your preferences are, have a custom board made.

Those stepping-stone boards can be resold, loaned to friends or prospective carvers, or used in the early and late season where you don't want to risk damaging your best board.

[Buell]

Buy a good, modern technology board. Make sure the board has decambered nose and tail and metal construction. It will make learning so much more pleasurable. The new boards are so much better at covering technique flaws and it is wrong to say that you should learn to ride first before buying one.

A side suggestion, don't buy one that is too long. It will slow your learning if you are always skidding or stopping because the board is too big for you to fit it between the lines of the groomed.

[pogokoenig]

Buy a good, modern technology board.

Agree

Make sure the board has decambered nose and tail and metal construction. It will make learning so much more pleasurable. The new boards are so much better at covering technique flaws and it is wrong to say that you should learn to ride first before buying one.

Come on, this is nonsense. A good standard board is ok. No need for fancy stuff. Covering technique flaws by better equipment is a thing that brings the sport down.

All the gear but no idea.

[Mike T]

Covering technique flaws by better equipment is a thing that brings the sport down.

Yeah, but it makes the sport more fun

[Buell]

Agree

Come on, this is nonsense. A good standard board is ok. No need for fancy stuff. Covering technique flaws by better equipment is a thing that brings the sport down.

All the gear but no idea.

Nonsense? Those boards are in the past. We have moved beyond them now.

I have learned to carve just fine on my nice boards and, as Mike said, it is so much more fun.

[frunobulax]

+1 on pogokoenig. Titanal and decambered nose don't make a good board out of a bad one. And covering technique flaws with board construction sounds like changing the weather with yellow sunglasses.

Don't get me wrong, there's no need for buying an outdated board or a simple and cheap board. A high end board can bring more fun into your snowboarding. But so far there's no reason to believe non-titanal and non-decambered boards are outdated as a whole and for every target group.

[Buell]

Titanal and decambered nose don't make a good board out of a bad one. And covering technique flaws with board construction sounds like changing the weather with yellow sunglasses.

It is true that not all new shapes are alike quality wise and I definitely have my favorites. I was responding generally to the advice that the OP should just buy some older used boards to learn on.

As to the other advice you guys are advocating, do we really need to buy boards that are harder to ride for learning to carve?

If someone wants to work on technique on a new design, they just go to a steeper or bumpier run or one with poorer snow quality. It is that simple. They do not need to buy a board that is more difficult and less pleasant to ride.

The lessons will be the same as riding an older design on a much easier run or in better snow conditions. The boards do not change the learning curve. They just allow you to step up quicker to more challenging conditions. If they are tired or prefer to cruise then they can stay on the easy runs and take advantage of the boards easy riding benefits.

[JK moscraciun]

Same here!

Not much talent but after a painful start on a F2 silberpfile than F2 speedster I switched to new school race style metal board.

No! It not turned me in a world cup rider but eased the learning process.

The new boards are wider, more stable and tend to be a touch softer and forgiving!

My best advice is if you can afford spend some money on instruction. Take lessons from a competent active alpine coach.

[frunobulax]

I don't want to make any masochistic suggestions. I just don't agree that NSR boards have no downsides and are generally easier to ride.

I've been riding metal boards for 5 years now. And I love the smooth feeling they give me. I agree that smoothness if not dampness can be of great value even for the beginner. But maybe more so for the advanced rider because he goes faster. After all IMO it is a question of personal preference, not of quality.

This goes even more for the other NSR features. There is some positive aspects to say e.g. about decambered noses, and for most of us these benefits may outweigh the downsides. But I believe that there are riders who learn faster on classic shapes because they need the guidance a classic noseshape offers. And there will be riders who don't like decambered tails because they prefer the snappiness of the classic tail.

I have ridden 5 different NSR boards last year, and none of these boards I would describe as "easy to ride".

Buell, you made positive experience with NSR and therefore you like it . No problem with that. I just bought an NSR board myself. But are you sure that Helvetico is the same type of rider as you are? Or as I am?

edit: just seen that you've edited your post. I'm with you when you say there's no need to use an old or outdated board for learning. but I still doubt that titanal and decambered solves all our problems just because its titanal and decambered. and i doubt that wider and softer board are always the right choice for the beginner.

[Mike T]

First of all, let's separate "new school race" boards from "metal boards in general". SL and GS specific shapes are probably not the best choice for a beginner or not-so-intense rider, as the tight and big sidecuts make certain demands on a rider (fitness and athleticism for SL, cajones and comfort at speed for GS) that in-between freecarve shapes do not.

If I consider the boards I know best, I would for instance steer a beginner or more casual rider towards an AM or Classic and away from SL, Angrry, NSR and VSR because I believe the former set to be less demanding to ride with modest skills.

Now having said this, I believe that if you pick an "average" glass board and an "average" metal board and let a rider of modest skill try them both, 90+% of the time said rider will have a better experience on the metal board. Yes, most metal boards probably are more accomodating of riders' mistakes, but they also tend to be more confidence inspiring, and allow the rider to focus more on *developing* good technique because they spend less time fighting their equipment. Not saying there won't be glass boards that are friendlier than some metal boards, or certain people who just don;t dig metal... just saying "in general".

I know that my riding made a quantum leap forward after 5 or 6 years when I started riding metal boards, mostly because I *could* focus more on fixing my technique.

<flame retardant suit on>

And I really don't see how putting riders of modest ability on user-friendly equipment such as metal AMs, Classics, WCRs, FCs, etc "brings down the sport". I think it does just the opposite... the more beginners and modest-ability riders can elevate the game, the more our sport thrives. Just because some of us put up with a steeper learning curve, doesn't make it some rite of passage that all hardbooters have to go through. I have more thoughts on this matter that are probably best kept to myself, so I'll do just that...

[pokkis]

I fully agree, why the hell one should be learn to ride with some old fassioned stuff and kill riders hopes to have pure fun.

Metal rules for easy riding and for easy learning.

If they later want make their life suck, then they can hop on to some oudated glass stuff, perhaps to learn something, or not.

Yes, there exist some modern non-metall stuff still, like for example Swoard, but problem realy for new comers is to pick first some easy adaption board/setup to learn basics and have some fun :)

[scrapster]

I'm an absolutely terrible, beginner rider, so I'll chime in about my thoughts on the new school shapes I've tried. While significant decambering makes boards easier to ride on the flats (which is truly a nice feature and a great advancement), I've found that I've had to lean those boards over more than I expected to get that tighter, VSR sidecut near the nose to bite. Since I tend to ride more slowly, I've fallen over more than once. Of course, this can be a positive (teach me to lean more and ride faster) or a negative (a little frustrating).

Riding a board with VSR also taught me that I'm definitely holding on to my turns way too long--which a VSR does not want to do. Again, could be a good thing.

I agree with just about everyone out there that metal is quite nice, though I've been on a few metal boards where the shape negated the benefits for me.

I finally settled on a WCRM for this season. It seemed like a solid, safe shape to progress on. Hopefully, I'll find out very soon :)

[pogokoenig]

Nonsense? Those boards are in the past. We have moved beyond them now.

What is in the past? A good solid board in the medium price range with a moderate shape, a little tailkick and decent width of roughly 20cm? Just an easy forgiving freecarcing board. These will never be outdated.

I have learned to carve just fine on my nice boards and, as Mike said, it is so much more fun.

I really would like to see you riding.

[pogokoenig]

And I really don't see how putting riders of modest ability on user-friendly equipment such as metal AMs, Classics, WCRs, FCs, etc "brings down the sport". I think it does just the opposite... the more beginners and modest-ability riders can elevate the game, the more our sport thrives. Just because some of us put up with a steeper learning curve, doesn't make it some rite of passage that all hardbooters have to go through. I have more thoughts on this matter that are probably best kept to myself, so I'll do just that...

Agree on that. But when it comes down to covering bad technique with top notch material, it looks a bit different.

[trailertrash]

I really would like to see you riding.

I 2nd that. This guy talks a big game on here.

[Buell]

covering bad technique with top notch material.......

You continue to act like this is a bad thing. We are riding for fun and to get better. If one wants a challenge, go to a run that is harder to ride. I would rather not fall on my ass just because I bought a board that is harder to ride.

Seems really simple to me. I guess you ride with a different philosophy.

[bobdea]

I 2nd that. This guy talks a big game on here.

he has some nice softboot shots for sure!

[Buell]

I 2nd that. This guy talks a big game on here.

Yep, I suck. Keyboard carver. ;)

Dude, how many times do I need to invite you to ride with me in Utah? You are just scared it might be a powder day and you would have to sit in the lodge! :D

[Loc]

Get a bang-for-your-buck modern board and learn on that. Embrace whatever makes learning easier. Would you teach your kid to drive in a stick shift car with no power steering?

[bobdea]

What is in the past? A good solid board in the medium price range with a moderate shape, a little tailkick and decent width of roughly 20cm? Just an easy forgiving freecarcing board. These will never be outdated.

.

cool, I have wild duck knifer for you

[John H]

I really liked riding the Wild Duck Knifer. It was a fun board.:)