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UPZ Hardboots 2010/2011


Hans

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Well the hardboot itself will always be the same molds. Hopefully they changed the screw attachement. Because I heard many complaints about the them.

Hopefully some day someone will dare to make new molds and use different plastics in different areas, etc. like so many new ski boots ...

I had no problem this season with the screws, but you are right. That would be another area for improvement ... I heard from the ISPO that there would be some (important?) improvements ... so far the boot doesn´t look that different ... but let´s see ...

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Let's look at the tooling costs for making completely brand new molds, shall we?

For one boot size you've got the boot, the cuff and the tongue.

I'd guess the tooling for the boot would would cost at least $100,000, the cuff around $70,000, and the tongue around $30,000. So for one size set you've got $200k tooling (this is just to make the tooling, does not include R&D, new design, testing, etc). For just 5 sets of tooling to get different boot sizes you would need to pay about $1 mill.

Our small community doesn't have enough clout to buy enough boots quickly enough to make the return on investment practical for any manufacturer. The best that the boot vendors can do is pay for modest tweaks to existing tooling every so often to keep us interested. That, and change the colors, buckles and decals every so often. The best low investment improvements come from new plastic compounding and liner improvements.

edit: flawed reasoning.... would probably use same tongue and cuff for multiple sizes, reducing number of lower cost tools required.

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Forward lean adjuster was also metal this year (works fine!).

I roughly know about the costs of new molds, but I thought that there are new computer aided methods where you would not need a classic mold (I know - the development of the software would be very expensive :mad:).

And as I said - maybe some day someone will DARE it, because otherwise our boots would stay the same forever, right?

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Forward lean adjuster was also metal this year (works fine!).

I roughly know about the costs of new molds, but I thought that there are new computer aided methods where you would not need a classic mold (I know - the development of the software would be very expensive :mad:).

And as I said - maybe some day someone will DARE it, because otherwise our boots would stay the same forever, right?

hey, I've seen some stuff about how 3d printers are gonna change manufacturing plastics.

really cut down on prototyping time. AFAIK for mass production you'd still need molds machined of steel or aluminum though?

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hey, I've seen some stuff about how 3d printers are gonna change manufacturing plastics.

really cut down on prototyping time. AFAIK for mass production you'd still need molds machined of steel or aluminum though?

Another name for 3D printing is Rapid Prototyping or RP. The time involved, plus the cost of the materials and machine time would make RP parts prohibitively expensive. And I don't think that the materials that can be printed are suitable for the stresses a boot would see.

I manufacture door hardware and often use RPs to show clients what a finished part will look like or how it will feel in the hand. Sometimes I just want to see the part. Looking at a computer screen somehow does not give a true feel for size or proportion. We also use the RP to make rubber molds used to make wax models for lost wax casting. The RP machine is a truly amazing machine.

bjvircks, your estimates for tooling cost is probably in the ball park. I make most of my products by hot forging brass. The forging dies are generally smaller and run about $10,000 to $15,000 for a die to make a 10" x 2.5" wide escutcheon plate. One area where computers have changed tihngs is CAD software for designing and CAM to translate that design into G code. Now a CNC macine just cuts the design into the die steel. Years ago it was much more involved.

Plastic injection molds are quite complicated, especially for the shapes needed for the boot lower. There are probably 30 or more molds needed for a pair of boots. Don't forget that you need left and right for many of the parts. Some parts carry all the way across the whole size range, others several shell sizes and some specific to the shell size.

The next issue a manufacturer has is production volume. The time required to switch from one part to another, adjust the machine, and heat the mold is considerable. One would want to see minimum runs of 500 parts per mold. The larger a production run, the lower the cost. They probably make one production run per year and no more.

So, unless the number of hard boots purchased every year sees a dramatic increase, we probably won't see dramatic changes. Colors, buckles and other parts that can be used on ski boots are the likely changes. Also, if they are able to modify the current mold by removing metal and making an area thicker, that might allow a change.

Sorry for the voluminous post.

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looks like they are changing the lever that locks the forward lean adjustment. (or maybe they did that earlier) I think the winged plastic lever I've got on my RSVs is poor design. Is the new one metal?

Yes, but that happened a couple years ago. My RTRs have red shells and metal levers. I don't recall whether they are from the 08/09 year, or the year before.

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Man, What a bonehead flaw in my tooling cost rollup. Right and Left... Wow, what a concept!

I'm presently designing a set of molded parts for a family of equipment that is going on a group of new small commercial aircraft. We are using a highly specialized composite material (just don't call it plastic... not PC in our business) I've got an RP machine sitting not 30 feet from my office. My desk has RP stuff scattered about.

As far as "instant tooling" for molded parts... the technology has been around for about 15 years. It is suitable for low quantity, smallish parts with simple tool configurations (no slides, draws, pulls,etc). The process I was familiar with involved the use of a process very similar to RP but with novel materials and several finishing processes. A part geometry is scaled up (to account for plastic shrinkage during cooling as well as tool shrinkage during its creation) Then an inverse of the part is used to "RP" a raw tool form using a steel powder that has each particle of steel coated with a binder. Then the green form is fired to drive off the binder, leaving a slightly smaller steel sponge containing the cavity of the part. The steel sponge is then backfilled under vacuum with molten copper or some low temp alloy. Then the tool is polished out and critical dimensions are tweaked.Finally the tool may be plated for durability. Fast but low quality and not good for extended production.

Getting quality parts molded is not a trivial matter. We depend greatly on the structural integrity of our boots at the toe and heel. This integrity is a combination of the plastic compounder doing it right every time, the molder keeping his temperatures and processes in control, the tool builder knowing material flow and how to gate and cool, as well as the boot design being sound to begin with.

New CAD tools help quite a bit with all of this... but it is still very costly to bring a totally new boot geometry to market.

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What's the red thing above the Intec heel? Some kind of flexible spacer? That would be interesting to get some flexibility between the heel and the boot, though it would put a lot of stress on the hardware.

The new model ATB (All Terrain Boot): completely new boot model for BX and FR. Very soft flex and special dampers between exchangeable heels and shell.

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Anyone read Japanese or know anything about this new model?

There are some words that did not translate. And I suspect that the translation from German to Japanese and then to English did not help any. But there are a few details here:

★ ATB (All Terrain Boot)

Tentative price: ¥ 86000 tax / NTEC tax ¥ 88000 specifications

Color: Cream

Tan: soft (red)

ATB is a completely new idea was born.

Binding plate in a wide range of the latest board

If you want to use.

Boots with grip soles and super soft,

Easy walking tour, snowboarding, freeride,

Powder, we recommend the snowboard cross.

Intec specifications were prepared.

INTEC HEEL is a combination of the SHOCKABSORBER.

This is a 6mm shock absorber heel RC8 and RC10

You can also use the lift.

Effective in the powder run and easy to install.

F2 INTEC Step-in at the perfect

Batsugun Nomarubain of chemistry between the F2.

With the ankle was easy to move in the soft flex,

Revised to fit the heel.

Please see the position of Middobakkuru.

Hold on to involve more than posterior.

Soruadaputa is an improved version of the TOUR ADPTER

Is attached. Due to the large width-to-binding

Some manufacturers do not fit.

Recommended ※ F2, CATEK is not allowed.

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