softbootsurfer Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 First pic... Second Pic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I'm taking TheTruth's word on this. Imagine a downhill edge catch at 90... *shudder*. and great article on Miura, snowwriter, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 He's back. :eplus2: I got out on my Burner yesterday. Second time this year. First time without serious pain the whole time. Thank the baby Jesus for chiropractic treatment. Pretty sure I hit around 70 mph coming off Ridge. Caught a lllllloooooottttt of air off the roller in the runout. Much more than I intended. But the 197 feels so stable if just wants to go. Pretty controllable getting it back down to 35 to 40 mph. Wow. So much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 What you seem to miss is that I have been racing a LONG time, both skis and snowboards. As far as the the snowboard side of things, I was a regular in the Green Mountain Series back in the late 80's through the late 90's, did the U.S. Open 7 times, and hit a number of the so called snowboard "speed events" my friend Gilmore spoke about earlier. I've also raced in 4 World Cup GS events back in the day when we used the two run traditional GS format.A snowboard "Super G" or "Downhill" is set like a open FIS skiing GS at best with similar overall speeds. I've "been there and done it" and the overall speed we carried is nowhere near the overall speed you carry in a skiing Super G or Downhill (been there and done that too... have you?). Hey, if you want to restart those type of races, I'm all for it. I actually don't like the PGS and PS format anyway. What I'm talking about being dangerous on a board is a real FIS skiing downhill set, on a water injected course, with the same distance between gates, the same blind turns where the only way of knowing where the gate is located is from memory, the same insane fall aways, and the same 80-90 mph speeds. Start running those for snowboards, and I guarantee you will see people seriously hurt. I snb. raced in the '80s as I stated earlier, and I ran downhills and trained on downhill courses that were FIS std. Evidently in your storied career you missed the iron mountain DH and the wengen DH & Kitzbuhel events, which were full FIS DH rated courses. You may have missed competing at the 1987 & 1988 US Opens, which were also actual DH courses. While they scared the living daylights out of me, and I fell in the 1988 US Open DH, I was uninjured and came back for more. technically, a snowboard is safer to dump on at high speed, i have done this myself...more than I care to remember. No two skis going in two different directions at a 22 DIN setting, just a shocked competitor with both feet firmly attached to a wooden board, sliding down an icy course into soft fencing. believe me on this: it is not so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (Think Flattton Vt.). boy, watch out, the stratton crew gets upset when you say it's not a challenging hill. I had a wagon load of villagers at my door with pitchforks and torches when I called the place flatton. anyway, yeah, I'm pretty sure most people here have never been over 50 MPH, if you've been clocked on radar then I buy it but otherwise not so much. perceived speed and actual speed are MUCH different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowriter Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 anyway, yeah, I'm pretty sure most people here have never been over 50 MPH, if you've been clocked on radar then I buy it but otherwise not so much. perceived speed and actual speed are MUCH different. I hope I'm not going over 50 ... not interested in a car accident, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoiler Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I think the OP was about courses and not speeds. Snowboard races have been held on real downhill courses in the past. They were scary to watch but I must agree the falls were less scary than ski falls. Dog Coughlin was a favorite of mine to watch, and Doug Lewis, ex- Olympic ski downhiller, perfected snowboard downhill for a short time in wind tunnel testing and FIS downhill courses. I have read that they were discontinued due to insurance considerations which is a shame. Snowboard downhill was a great event to watch and yes, many were held on FIS ski downhill courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 boy, watch out, the stratton crew gets upset when you say it's not a challenging hill. I had a wagon load of villagers at my door with pitchforks and torches when I called the place flatton. anyway, yeah, I'm pretty sure most people here have never been over 50 MPH, if you've been clocked on radar then I buy it but otherwise not so much. perceived speed and actual speed are MUCH different. LOL Bob, I guess I better keep looking over my shoulder for the irate Flatton Village People. I don't know what's more comical; People getting mad when somebody calls Flatton non-challenging, or calling any race held at Flatton a "Downhill". I've seen WalMart parking lots with steeper gradients than that place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I guess Andy Coughlin, Shannon Melhuse and the rest of us who found the 1980s US Open DH courses to be steep and gnarly just aren't up to your level yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I snb. raced in the '80s as I stated earlier, and I ran downhills and trained on downhill courses that were FIS std.Evidently in your storied career you missed the iron mountain DH and the wengen DH & Kitzbuhel events, which were full FIS DH rated courses. LOL. I'm actually more fond remembering of what happened after the races in my career. Especially after the U.S. Opens, but that is another story. Snowboard "Downhills" may have been held on FIS downhill runs, but the course set was nothing like a FIS ski downhill. What you consider being a snowboard downhill is at best a fast open set FIS GS for ski racers. Like I said, been there, seen it and done it. Like I said, if you want to restart that type of snowboard racing, I'm all for it. Personally, I prefer the traditional GS/Super G format to the PGS stuff we see now. But equating a Snowboard "Downhill" to a FIS ski Downhill is just plain silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I guess Andy Coughlin, Shannon Melhuse and the rest of us who found the 1980s US Open DH courses to be steep and gnarly just aren't up to your level yet. Dude, if you consider anything at Flatton "steep and gnarly" for racing you have absolutely no clue what "steep and gnarly" means for a ski racer. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Gosh. Thanks for the education. I bow to your "been there seen it and done it" statement. what could I have been thinking? Clearly, you're a superior snowboard racer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I guess Andy Coughlin, Shannon Melhuse and the rest of us who found the 1980s US Open DH courses to be steep and gnarly just aren't up to your level yet. who you talking to? don't think anyone disputes that it takes skill just saying it's a different game and courses are/were set differently than the ski events. I was at the 1994, 1995 and 1996 US open and I have seen skier SG courses as well. they were set differently. BTW, who are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 who you talking to? don't think anyone disputes that it takes skill just saying it's a different game and courses are/were set differently than the ski events.I was at the 1994 1995 and 1996 US open and I have seen skier SG courses as well. they were set differently. Reread the posts: I'm referring to 1980s DH events. they were NOT set differently then. I competed in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Reread the posts: I'm referring to 1980s DH events.they were NOT set differently then. I competed in those. They were not FIS ski downhill sets. I don't know how many times I need to state this. It is clear you have never competed in a ski racing speed event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Reread the posts: I'm referring to 1980s DH events.they were NOT set differently then. I competed in those. before my time, was born in 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Not to get into this pissing match, but I've often wondered just how steep Eastern resorts are. This guy has gone around measuring a few. According to him, Beardown and Worldcup at Stratton are around 21 degrees average, which is a typical intermediate run where I come from. You can get a world of steam up straightlining a 21 degree slope but in the grand scheme of things, that is pretty flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Not to get into this pissing match, but I've often wondered just how steep Eastern resorts are. This guy has gone around measuring a few. According to him, Beardown and Worldcup at Stratton are around 21 degrees average, which is a typical intermediate run where I come from. Not that you can't get a world of steam up straightlining a 21 degree slope. correct, stratton is not known for steep. there's a couple steep spots but nothing really sustained. most of the east is like that but many wester areas are too. most of the better areas in the east have more challenging terrain than the VT ski areas. edit, I meant to say southern vermont areas. those being mt snow, bromley and stratton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Not to get into this pissing match, but I've often wondered just how steep Eastern resorts are. This guy has gone around measuring a few. According to him, Beardown and Worldcup at Stratton are around 21 degrees average, which is a typical intermediate run where I come from. You can get a world of steam up straightlining a 21 degree slope but in the grand scheme of things, that is pretty flat. Stats can be massaged to say whatever we like- you're taking averages into account, not individual trails. Stratton is definitely one flat resort,for the most part, BUT: it's race trails made for world class downhills. I've run DHes at Wengen and Kitz, so, without sounding like Mr. "Been there, done that" , I can speak to real downhills. I lost it on the Steilhang on a big wide ole 204 safari (not my beloved 210), and i lost it there years before on my Fischer 223s. The US Open DHes at Stratton were gnarly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 correct, stratton is not known for steep. there's a couple steep spots but nothing really sustained. most of the east is like that but many wester areas are too. most of the better areas in the east have more challenging terrain than the VT ski areas. Excluding Mansfield's "Front Four", of course, ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Not to get into this pissing match, but I've often wondered just how steep Eastern resorts are. This guy has gone around measuring a few. According to him, Beardown and Worldcup at Stratton are around 21 degrees average, which is a typical intermediate run where I come from. You can get a world of steam up straightlining a 21 degree slope but in the grand scheme of things, that is pretty flat. YEP, the entire mountain is terminal intermediate heaven. Just a bunch of bulldozed and blasted cruisers. But that can still be fun if you want to cruise around. But, it is in no way a challenging mountain. To be honest, I believe Flattons only FIS homologation is for USSA Masters level (for us old timers LOL) GS and SL events. That means the place isn't qualified to hold a true World Cup ski event, even something as short as a SL. IIRC, there are only 2 trails in the east homologated for FIS speed events: The downhill run at White Face, and Narrow Guage at Sugarloaf. Even those two trail are considered very tame by FIS ski racing standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchKnife Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 OK- I'm outta here for Burgers and Beers. Wish we could continue this conversation over brews and some wings. Sound like a great bunch of folks here, and this discussion would undoubtedly go better in that light. Believe me when I say I'm smiling when I post here. I'd like to have a few cold ones with you guys. Truth: your next one's on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Excluding Mansfield's "Front Four", of course, ;) lol, yeah, see my above edit. leaving out one word. really can make a statement look stupid. "southern" is the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 boy, watch out, the stratton crew gets upset when you say it's not a challenging hill. I had a wagon load of villagers at my door with pitchforks and torches when I called the place flatton. I don't think it was so much the place being called "Flatton" as much as it was you calling it flat. I think you called it unchallenging or something like that. Whatever you said it implied a level of skill that few of us believe you have. You the forum post leader who few if any on here have actually seen carve a snowboard. It is funny how right before the ECES the excuses of why you can't ride are racheting up. The weight gain, the injury, the kid ... blah blah blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 :lol: 30 year old Keyboard Cowboy with Street Cred.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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