Could a snowboard racer do the skiier downhill course?

[bobdea]

I don't think it was so much the place being called "Flatton" as much as it was you calling it flat. I think you called it unchallenging or something like that. Whatever you said it implied a level of skill that few of us believe you have. You the forum post leader who few if any on here have actually seen carve a snowboard.

It is funny how right before the ECES the excuses of why you can't ride are racheting up. The weight gain, the injury, the kid ... blah blah blah.

I don't really make claims of being good at all. I suck, really, how many times do I have to say it? I've been bitching all year about not getting out enough, being hurt and fat. it's nothing new. even prior to life as a weekend warrior I was not a great rider. competent, maybe even a strong rider in the sense I would often take a GS stick to places other people don't/won't but I don't have a billy bad ass ego like some of the posters here do.

now, please tell me stratton is challenging. just do it. regardless of how good I am stratton is not challenging. to put it in context most people, even carvers, want to ride something other than stuff they can cruise and link up carves on all day. some good bumps or other hairy terrain that's challenging, trees or just challenging groomed trails. stratton has little of that. I like stratton but in the context of that thread, if I remember correctly was someone taking a trip to the north east and was considering stratton as their big north east experience . If I were going on a trip I'd go somewhere else for the above reasons. what's the problem? people got upset because it was their home turf but that would be like me getting pissed if someone said mt wachusett was not challenging and suggested berkshire east was a more challenging well rounded hill. Bretton woods is the same way as are lots of places.

I will be able to ride next week, which is nice. I was not sure I'd even be able to ride not because of any of the above issues but just having a some cutting done on my neck. as of right now it looks like that can wait.

anyway, you're entitled to think whatever you want, I'm not that worried about what you think either.

[bobdea]

:lol: 30 year old Keyboard Cowboy with Street Cred.:lol:

hey, I admit it at least.

and I'm not 30 yet.

[carvedog]

who you talking to? don't think anyone disputes that it takes skill just saying it's a different game and courses are/were set differently than the ski events.

I was at the 1994, 1995 and 1996 US open and I have seen skier SG courses as well. they were set differently.

BTW, who are you?

hey Bob kind of funny, not you and I sparring about Burners and stuff. I'll let them duke it out.

A couple 'o new guys that seem like they both have the need for speed.

Guys we are all on the same team. It's a good community. Before you get too bitter at each other for slights imagined or real.

I don't know anything about the east. I can 'imagine' in the broad sense starting at the Whistler Downhill, even running most of it except for the last air.

I have done as many speed events in Idaho as I could afford and then I went up to the start of the Downhill course at Snowbasin and it blew my mind. I couldn't even imagine starting that course.

So it sounds like I would like to meet both of you guys.

Hope you stick around.

"right out of the gate it's almost a freefall"

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[BlueB]

BTW, who are you?

One of them might be a reincarnation of a British poet and painter, who also shared the name with a movie character portraid by Johnny Depp... ;)

[bobdea]

hey Bob kind of funny, not you and I sparring about Burners and stuff. I'll let them duke it out.

A couple 'o new guys that seem like they both have the need for speed.

Guys we are all on the same team. It's a good community. Before you get too bitter at each other for slights imagined or real.

I don't know anything about the east. I can 'imagine' in the broad sense starting at the Whistler Downhill, even running most of it except for the last air.

I have done as many speed events in Idaho as I could afford and then I went up to the start of the Downhill course at Snowbasin and it blew my mind. I couldn't even imagine starting that course.

So it sounds like I would like to meet both of you guys.

Hope you stick around.

"right out of the gate it's almost a freefall"

yeah, I was in no way saying anything bad about either person. when I asked who he was I was just wondering if I'd recognize the name as when I was a teenager I kept track of races.

[Bordy]

YEP, the entire mountain is terminal intermediate heaven. Just a bunch of bulldozed and blasted cruisers. But that can still be fun if you want to cruise around. But, it is in no way a challenging mountain.

To be honest, I believe Flattons only FIS homologation is for USSA Masters level (for us old timers LOL) GS and SL events. That means the place isn't qualified to hold a true World Cup ski event, even something as short as a SL. IIRC, there are only 2 trails in the east homologated for FIS speed events: The downhill run at White Face, and Narrow Guage at Sugarloaf. Even those two trail are considered very tame by FIS ski racing standards.

I wonder if WC run in Waterville Valley is still homo?

Two of my friends Ran that course in Vancover. On broke his hand and could not compete, the other took 20th I think? Both said it was unreal. I would for sure like a crack at it on a Big board. But there is just no way I could handle that thing wide open at the speeds, the skiiers do.

The difference between the Flatton SG and say the Bachlor or Mammoth SG was huge.

Hey Trench Knife, The Dog runs the local program, I will ask him what he thinks of the current FIS down hill courses and the Ones he ran while snowboarding.

I have had the plessure of running both ski and snow board downhill events and some wide open free runs on preped down hill courses. Even my mega radiused metal new school race boards where not enough. Maybe I to am just a old washed up hasbeen, and some new young buck could handle down hill on a snowboard. I am sure I could try but not so sure I would suceed.

[carvin29]

A few people has asked what the OP was asking, which is me. I was asking if a snowboarder could do the DH course flat out and how the time would compare to the skiier's.

[John Gilmour]

First pic...Buttermilk Downhill course on far left where Snowboard DH was run

in late 80's

Second Pic...Aspen Mt. Today set for some US Championships... on course

used for Years as WC DH course.

Some people Can not handle the TRUTH!

IMHO buttermilk and Aspens downhills are not comparable.

Bordy.. Bachelor SG...that must have been blazing fast. a lot more than Upper Standard at Flatton can muster..

Stratton, is a great place for investment bankers, day traders, and hedge funders to carve, but offers nearly nil challenge to the Olympic skiers from Austria.

Stratton however ...if conditions are good (a big if) is a great place to learn to snowboard if you get PSR as a teacher.

I think I still have my 1985 Stratton upper mountain certification card somewhere.. lol, yes if you could believe it...they used to make you take a test to ride both the lower mountain and later the upper mountain..Mark Heingartner used to issue them.. I think they cost about $25-$40...a complete rip off. And I think you had to renew/pay every year before they started issuing cards...

Loon didn't have certification cards for a while, and then I they started too, I think I got certified at Loon by Chris Carol. But Wildcat and Jay Peak never put you through that BS.

The point being... even back in the 1980's even the lamer East Coast Mountains recognized a clear competency difference between snowboards and skis. (we were plenty pissed that a beginner skier could go right to the top...but we had to spend 1/2 a day waiting for an appt. to be tested- and if no tester was available... you did not get to ride and had to rent skis)

Even with all the advances in gear, technique, and 25 years of experience.... Skis simply kick our ass in the Downhill events. I would expect the fastest snowboarder on the 2010 downhill course to be slower than all of the skiers that finished the downhill.... there is span of 12 seconds between #1 and #79 representing about 12% difference in average speed.....

Even so..I would expect without excessive braking- the result for our best snowboarder on the identical course would be DNF. You just can't land air that hard and fast and far and reset the edge on a fallaway at that speed in hardboots and an alpine deck- and just forget about it in softboots..

I think the Kitz skiers are a different breed.... I have no interest competing in on a course where it is not unusual to have skiers to be airlifted out...I personally would not be able to sleep as a course setter.

This thread is just silly.

[Rob Stevens]

This thread is just silly.

Again, word.

[Jack M]

I think I still have my 1985 Stratton upper mountain certification card somewhere.. lol, yes if you could believe it...they used to make you take a test to ride both the lower mountain and later the upper mountain..Mark Heingartner used to issue them.

I got certified in '88 at Stowe by one of boostertwo's employees.

When I was instructing at Sugarloaf in the 90's, one of my co-instructors said she was dating a CVA coach - Mark Heingartner. I was like what? Mark Heingartner is here and you're dating him? She said, yeah, so? I said do you have any idea who he is? She said, yeah, he's a coach at CVA. I filled her in from there. She later introduced me to him and he was surprised that anybody knew who he was. Nice guy.

[GeoffV]

One of my coolest moments as a snowboarder was back in 88 or 89. I was at Kitzbühl with my buddy and his family for the week. Little did I know that my buddies dad was good friends with Franz Klammer. We met up with him and rode with him for 2 days. It was amazing to ride with that guy. Back then I was still learning how to snowboard and was more of a newb, it was very intimidating to ride with Franz. He was a very nice and funny guy.

I also had the pleasure of seeing several of the Hammen Kamm races live. It was absolutely mind boggling to see them fly down that last pitch at ridicules fast speeds through the finish line with drunken Austrians every where. After the race the whole town would head into the bars till 4am, crazy.

Some day I'd love to get back to that town.

[softbootsurfer]

IMHO buttermilk and Aspens downhills are not comparable.

No body suggested that they were comparable...Did They?

That is why I posted the two pics, to show how different they are...

[carvedog]

Watching the Olympics- can snowboards do something like the downhill course? What would the time comparison be? I'm asking because I wonder why there aren't more alpine events for snowboards. I think I remember there being a GS at Nagano?

FWIW - I don't think the thread is silly. Unless you have been around to see some of these events how would you know. And there aren't more alpine events cuz everyone has swallowed the koolaid of marketing cheap boards, "alternative" clothing. I could go on, but you get the idea. Easier to skid around on a spatula than carve on real board.

I used to run downhills and Super G as much as I could. The downhill course is at Soldier Mtn......... 2200 vertical feet. My time was around 2 minutes. A couple pretty good airs but nothing like the bottom of the Whistler course. 65 t0 70 mph on the steep parts was pretty common for me.

They used to run a top of Baldy ( Sun Valley ) to bottom Super G that was crazy fast set. My best time 2:43, that year the winning skiers were around 2 minutes. That is 3,100 vertical feet in one run.

I tried my best to answer your question. I speculate that amongst the best of the best in both disciplines that skis would be at least 10-20 % faster on most courses. Maybe a little less if they couldn't pole out of the gate depending on how steep it is at the start.

[TrenchKnife]

I got certified in '88 at Stowe by one of boostertwo's employees.

When I was instructing at Sugarloaf in the 90's, one of my co-instructors said she was dating a CVA coach - Mark Heingartner. I was like what? Mark Heingartner is here and you're dating him? She said, yeah, so? I said do you have any idea who he is? She said, yeah, he's a coach at CVA. I filled her in from there. She later introduced me to him and he was surprised that anybody knew who he was. Nice guy.

We may have met. I was teaching there for Pete Ruschp, Lowell was AD and Bud did a lot of the snowboard school training.

I certified quite a few riders then.

Back then, Bud and Lowell were hard-to-miss in the North face mountaineering pants and bright randonee boots.

We used to spend our off days on Mansfield's North face, we'd hike up from the Troll hut on the chin and ride the steep & deep of the face. Long hike back, though.

That was the season when Rick Dryfoos from Smugglers' was starting the first PSIA manual over at Stowe, without Pete Ingvolstad's (Or Sherm White's) knowledge.

We tried to help him as much as we could.