Puddy Tat Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Bobby started a thread the other day looking around for a 'glas board with more pop. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26962 After a couple of days the thread seems to be headed in the metal is better direction. My understanding is that initially people were driven away from alpine because the boards got very specific and very good but would attack you if you didn't stay on top of them. This is also generalized in Bobby's thread. The thread leaves a nagging question which is that inclusion of metal, carbon fibre, and other tech goodies into the boards is making them more rideable. But obviously at the increased manufacturing gosts. What is the chance of this sport growing again if the initial investment is so high. Below the knees I've got over $2000 in boots, bindings, and snowboard. No one is going to be willing to shell that out for a sport that is an unknown to them. Even a snowboarder wanting to move to carving is going to have a tough time justifiying that initial outlay. And if they end up buying used and don't know what they are getting they may end up with say a Burton FP that is rather unridable by them. So the question is and this is almost more aimed at the board, boot, and binding manufacturers is that is there a way that entry-level equipment can be manufactured such that a new carver could get set up on entry-level equipment for below $750? Keep in mind an entry-level SB set-up is less than $500. Yes mass production will reduce cost, but I'm wondering if the tech is required to make these boards ridable is there any chance of them ever hitting that entry level price point? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://donek.com/01_products/pilot.htm I think my first setup was around $300 for boots, board, and bindings. It was far from optimum but I had enough fun to decide to upgrade. The $500 soft setups aren't very hot either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Great thread. Important question. Short answer: I don't know. Part of the answer lies in the nature of American snowboarding. Canadians race alpine and do it very well. For instance, kids in Toronto go mid-week alpine races after school under the lights. Most American kids go to their local resort through ski club for a night of either skiing or soft-boot boarding. The adventurous soft-booters either end up in the park or creating jumps and the like on the edges of trails. I actually like to see that that kind of innovation. I think the kids are athletic, creative and show a lot of moxie for a sport that is basically self-taught. Part of the answer lies in what the idiots at the networks decide to show as snowboarding. For them, it's the pipe and slopestyle in an extended park. They gear it, based on their own mentality, to what is sensational: big air, lots of spins, inverts, and, oh yeah, big air. It's a lot like the morons who watch soccer and don't like it because there aren't a lot of goals. Never mind the intense play at midfield, the stringing together of passes on the fly, etc. Did I mention big air? Part of the answer lies in the fact that PSL and PGS require disciplined practice, coaches, and resorts willing to accommodate setting a hill aside during times of economic hardship. Part of it is the equipment. Let's say you get a deal on a board for 350, bindings for 150 and boots for 150. That's still 650 below the knees. There are soft-boot packages online for 200. Snowbarding in America symbolizes freedom, comraderie and lower costs. That's what I like about it in comparision to skiing. Racing requires discipline, competition and money. Maybe part of answer lies in getting an answer to why Toyota left F1 yesterday. (Thanks for bringing up this topic.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 And then, there's the issue of media coverage. Sure, in Canada, we've got OTB playing but apart from that? I'm not expecting to see a WC race on TV, they'll play some generic pool/dart/poker footage before sending a single camera there... Anyone remember when snowboard magazines stopped showing & advertising Alpine gear? I suggest sending requests to your local/national media broadcasters to play or report on the sport, if no-one asks, why should they play it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What you are talking about, guys? Entry level alpine is cheap. Used gear at least... Who says that a begginer needs to buy all greatest and latest, new? Boards, even the nice ones, have dropped a lot in price due to the metal revolution. Majority of alpine boards, even the older ones, perform better then 50% of the soft boot staff out there. UP, Alp, older Hot, even odd Renntiger or Proton, would set you back about 100-150. Boots, plenty of servicable used stuff out there. Say another 100. If you wanted to go really cheap, there is always Craigslist or consignment stores for a pair of Flexons, as cheap as 25 sometimes... Bindings, I saw few reliable pairs at 50 on Bomber, like Head, Fritschi, older F2s... Race Plates, TD1s or Snowpros at about 100. I think one can get geared up under 200 if tried hard, or about 350 for pretty decent stuff. Then upgrade slowly as you progress... Life is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://donek.com/01_products/pilot.htmI think my first setup was around $300 for boots, board, and bindings. It was far from optimum but I had enough fun to decide to upgrade. The $500 soft setups aren't very hot either... Yeah that is why they are so called entry-level. High-end SB set-ups (park/ and the AM freestyle?) still requiring a serious outlay of funds in excess of $1200. However becuase new entry level gear doesn't currently exist in this sub-segment it becomes difficult for us to grow. We also have a problem growing due to lack of exposure as was also pointed out. But what I'm trying to determine is that is it possible to create entry level carving equipment if we really need all that tech to make boards rideable? I can understand the discontinuation of TD2s with the advent of TD3s. There isn't a huge alpine market here so it is economically difficult for Bomber (and other companies) to develop and carry mulitple lines. The problem is that today there doesn't seem to be any entry level, and entry priced equipment. How do we grow? People go ga-ga when they see an alpine rider carving under the lift. I've had people say to me "my son wants to turn like you someday" the parent and the kid were on skis but that is another matter. These are people who want to get into this sport, but there isn't an avenue because the entry level gear doesn't currently exist. Yes an informed person can get used gear for $300 but what about the rest of the masses? Alot of people have a tendency to not want to buy used gear, unless it is for their kids, who are going to ot grow it anyways. Can entry-level equipment be made for this sport? Or are we forever going to be an eliteist niche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 In my opinion alpine snowboarding will stay a niche elitist sport until you see alpine gear in any local sport shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletProof Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 There needs to be demand for the gear or else it will never be stocked. Demand needs advertising and coverage. And yes, it's possible to make cheaper gear. I tried a BX board last spring, it didn't hold the edge for a long arc, but it was enough to lay some trenches. I know it's do-able to carve in softer ski boots, you don't get the angle release, but hey, most ski boots don't either. Bindings, there are a ton of used binding's out there. I have an old pair of SnowPro Interchanger, made specifically for rentals, don't tell me the stores/hill shops threw them in tne garbage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 What you are talking about, guys? Entry level alpine is cheap. Used gear at least... Who says that a begginer needs to buy all greatest and latest, new? Boards, even the nice ones, have dropped a lot in price due to the metal revolution. Majority of alpine boards, even the older ones, perform better then 50% of the soft boot staff out there. UP, Alp, older Hot, even odd Renntiger or Proton, would set you back about 100-150. Boots, plenty of servicable used stuff out there. Say another 100. If you wanted to go really cheap, there is always Craigslist or consignment stores for a pair of Flexons, as cheap as 25 sometimes... Bindings, I saw few reliable pairs at 50 on Bomber, like Head, Fritschi, older F2s... Race Plates, TD1s or Snowpros at about 100. I think one can get geared up under 200 if tried hard, or about 350 for pretty decent stuff. Then upgrade slowly as you progress... Life is good. BB - Yes it is possible to find bargin used gear if you know what you are doing. But most people getting into this don't have any clue as to what is going on. I certainly didn't, even coming back to it after tens years off the amont of info is overwhelming. However you started a thread about two weeks ago "carpet carving" showing a picture including a Donek pilot, Snowpros, and UPZ RTRs. The snowpros and the RTRs would have hit <I'm guessing> $650 (more like $900 for RC10s and snowpros right now). So I'd estimate $900+ for the set-up. Assuming all gear was purchased from the OEM or a distributor. Surf Quebec - The problem here is until we won't get exposure in local shops until we have more people riding alpine which won't happen until there is entry level gear. It's kind of a vicious circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 In my opinion alpine snowboarding will stay a niche elitist sport until you see alpine gear in any local sport shop. never going to happen. Alpine right now is the best it's ever been. Think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdyno Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 never going to happen.Alpine right now is the best it's ever been. Think about that. I won't contest the equipment is the best, but is the sport? I hope some good Olympic exposure will bring some new people in to the fold, but was it ever more popular? I am asking this as I never used to pay attention to it enough to know a difference between the late 80's lets say, and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I never believed that 'trickle down economics' did much more than add to the division between upper and lower classes,but in the case of hobby equipment trickle down works with a little research and advice. I have facilitated the discovery of our super cool hobby for a couple of dozen newbies who otherwise might have been intimidated by the prospect of getting into it.I've done this,as I know many others here have,by making good used or new old stock equipment available in a variety of sizes and performance levels.Whether just borrowing on their way to making a decision on what new equipment to purchase or buying used or 'nos' ,or simply through my instruction on the hill,they have had the sport made more accessable to them. For all the snobberry and elitism that exists on this site,there are many more of us ready and willing to make it less intimidating and painful as well as much cheaper for the uninitiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 The other problem is that a lot of people think that hardboot snowboarding is not fun to do on anything but groomed snow only and you still need a softboot setup to ride all mountain. I don't see very many hardboot riders that will ride all mountain in hardboots. I like the videos that the pureboarding guys have made because they are riding in bumps and powder and groomed all on the same board to show that it can be done and it looks like it would be fun. I think this helps to promote the sport better but it is going to be very hard to grow it much anyway. It takes more knowledge about gear to sell alpine snowboards at a local shop.Most people today that work in the snowboard shops have never ridden alpine boards at all and would not know how to advise riders on how to setup a board and bindings properly so that a person could have fun on their first day. The local shops have no incentive to get involved with alpine when they are making lots of money selling softboot gear. The only shops that will sell alpine usually have an owner that has done it or is doing it and understand why it is worth having the gear. Also people have the opinion that hard boots are uncomfortable. When I tell people that my feet are more comfortable in hardboots they are suprised. I tell them that heat moldable liners are what is helping. I think the sport is growing slowly and will be most popular with older riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I won't contest the equipment is the best, but is the sport? I hope some good Olympic exposure will bring some new people in to the fold, but was it ever more popular? I am asking this as I never used to pay attention to it enough to know a difference between the late 80's lets say, and now. You're assuming that we all want to or other people who come across to hardboots will want to run gates. I didn't get into hardbooting to run gates I got into it because of early 90's Burton videos with Peter B and Jean N laying on the snow in carves and generally ripping the hell out of the cord. Racing is a subset of alpine riding as much as EC carving is. Again this is about accesiblity of equipment. The equipment today is as Jack states the best it ever has been but can that same technology be put into entry-level gear so our sub-set of snowboarding can be made accessible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I never believed that 'trickle down economics' did much more than add to the division between upper and lower classes,but in the case of hobby equipment trickle down works with a little research and advice.I have facilitated the discovery of our super cool hobby for a couple of dozen newbies who otherwise might have been intimidated by the prospect of getting into it.I've done this,as I know many others here have,by making good used or new old stock equipment available in a variety of sizes and performance levels.Whether just borrowing on their way to making a decision on what new equipment to purchase or buying used or 'nos' ,or simply through my instruction on the hill,they have had the sport made more accessable to them. For all the snobberry and elitism that exists on this site,there are many more of us ready and willing to make it less intimidating and painful as well as much cheaper for the uninitiated. I'm with you here. Now that I've finally gotten a new board this year; I'm planning to keep the complete old set (Raichle 111s, O2 Fritsche bindings, and the F67) around to try and hook some friends. Then I'll get some shots of me carving on that set-up and post them with pics of the board on Kijiji here in Edmonton. I'll try and sell it and a half-day of riding tips (at a local hill) for $175-200. I'm hoping that way I can sell the board to a carve-interested freerider rather than another HB'r in Edmonton. This has brought to mind an interesting poll question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 lets face it winter sports are expensive! a decent set of new skis will run you about the same as a fresh donek a decent pair of ski boots will cost MORE than a snowboard specific hardboot a new pair of high end softboot bindings are about $300 as well. there is one true entry level alpine board that I know of and it's the donek pilot but alpine tends not to be for people who go for entry level gear. in most cases softboots serve as the entry level. I am so sick of hearing people cry about price when the prices are not that bad compared to mass produced ski gear. go find a pair of custom race skis for less than $850 US. now, the used gear as entry level are a different game. dirt cheap. you can whine about the expense but it's how it goes in a small market. If the market grows the big industry players will return and new low end boards, boots and bindings will again flood the market. it would be nice and I'd like to see more boot options. here's something to compare to a metal construction board http://www.skis.com/adult-race-skis/c589/fischer-worldcup-gs-race-skis-2010-p165034.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 This is a pretty interesting thread. Let me also shed some light on another aspect of the same story. Why have big companies decided to pull out of this sport? The answer is simple and obvious: they have made their decision based on a detailed analysis of the market and historical trends and figured out that there was no money in this business. I mean kind of money that would be interesting for large companies. So they stopped promoting this sport and equipment, and voila, there is in fact no big alpine market. Sounds like a catch 22.... They put their bets on softboot stuff, and life confirmed them again, the softboot business is nicely growing. Every little kid wants to be a softbooter and wants to wear baggy pants. Could it be the other way around? Was this only accidental? Does it have something to do with the perception of these 2 sports? I do not know, I'm too biased, but would be interested to see what you guys think. Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 This is a pretty interesting thread. Let me also shed some light on another aspect of the same story.Why have big companies decided to pull out of this sport? The answer is simple and obvious: they have made their decision based on a detailed analysis of the market and historical trends and figured out that there was no money in this business. I mean kind of money that would be interesting for large companies. So they stopped promoting this sport and equipment, and voila, there is in fact no big alpine market. Sounds like a catch 22.... They put their bets on softboot stuff, and life confirmed them again, the softboot business is nicely growing. Every little kid wants to be a softbooter and wants to wear baggy pants. <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5COwner%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:UseFELayout/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:SimSun; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-alt:宋体; mso-font-charset:134; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;} @font-face {font-family:"\@SimSun"; panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1; mso-font-charset:134; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Köszönöm szépen, Steve. You're right. Baggy pants, soft-boots, an affordable board = hangin' out on the slopes. It's fun, reasonably affordable if you go with your high school or college ski club, and relaxed. You can slide around on a soft-boot setup any old way you want. Plus, you see pros doing the same thing on TV. And it's marketed that way: cheap, easy and fun. Alpine is different. It requires better technique, much more precision and it's a lot faster. A soft-boot board lends itself to sliding. An alpine to carving. You really can't dick around on an alpine board like you can on a soft-boot setup. And you don't see alpine riders dicking around. They ride a lot better. (Although I have to admit some soft-booters are superbly athletic in the park.) Btw, I never found hard-booters to be elitist or snobby. Everyone welcomed me into the sport. Skiers on the other hand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 With most people on this board owning a google-full number of boards/bindings and perhaps boots. Perhaps there should be a section in the For Sale/Wanted forum about 'available for trying' for newbies detailing what you are willing to let newbie use and try in your area. Often get asked where I get my gear, always ready to offer to let people try but then they'll never find me again, whereas if there was a central depository for used gear to try... As for newbies, if you are like me, I did not have a clue when started what hardbooting is suppose to feel like or what I wanted, so did not need the best of the best right off the bat. F2 Roadster (new) $100 F2 bindings (starter new) $80 Northwave 900 (new and not in fashion at the time) $100 Getting into hardbooting...priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ear dragger Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 You walk into 90% of the ski shops and ask about alpine gear, and the guy looks at you like you're talking chinese or something! It should be carried in more shops. I think that store owners are afraid to spend the money to get the equipment in. They know what works, and people like to stick to what they know. poeple see you carving and hoot and holler because it looks amazing to see someone making turns like that. Equipment is priced a little to high for what it is. Sure a hand made board from coiler or virus can be pretty expensive, but donek and prior, volkl and nidecker should be trying to manufacture decks for cheaper. Same with boots. $500 is alot to someone "thinking" about getting into carving. I agree with other guys, exposure is a large part of the problem. maybe a good place to start would be rental shops on the mountains. convince them to carry some alpine setups. then people could give carving boards a go before they pull the trigger on 2000 dollars worth of gear (or whatever). but the other half is to have instructors on the hill riding hardboots! probably not gonna get the media interested as easily. but local shops that rent gear might be a good avenue. Starting gate had rental boards, and that's great. I got a friend to try it out. (unfortunately he did'nt get hooked) more action is required to make the business grow. there's my:barf: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 An interesting thread. In my view the "accessibility" thing isn't about equipment or price. From the UK perspective it's going to cost you a bundle just to get to the snow, and local board prices are high already. Alpine isn't "accessible" because you need to be able to ride, not because it costs more. So I'd put all this the other way around.... your average rider isn't motivated enough to learn to ride well. The mass-market snowboard companies reacted to that, and used their marketing power to make simple aerial ballet fashionable. Selling something anyone can do without much work gives you a bigger market, so that's clearly what they need to do. I think the only place Alpine could do better is marketing to the people who don't find the park particularly interesting. I'd suspect that most of them switch to skis at the moment. I'd be targeting that market, which is necessarily composed of people who can already ride softs. Hence I'd not bother about the learning curve: if you can ride then switching is easy. The sport is undoubtedly weak in promotion: I'm sure more people would rip if they could see it and knew it existed. There are many people on the various UK-based snowboard newsgroups who come across "extreme carving" or other videos of people riding Alpine well and they react the same way people do on the chair lift: they're impressed and they'd obviously like to ride that well too. I wonder if it isn't a bit fashion driven too - flatland snowboarding seems pretty tame and pretty tired to me; the skiers go higher if nothing else. It may be that the focus shifts more to a race-oriented approach in time. I would rather the average standard of boarders was better, but otherwise I don't much care either way so long as I can buy gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Great thread. I'm wondering, is alpine gear more readily available in Europe, Canada or Japan (where the sport is more popular)? The last time I saw alpine gear in my local shop was when Option put out a few alpine decks. The last time I saw a full alpine lineup was when Burton was still in the game--which is when I started, picking up my M series board. So, that lends credence to the idea that big companies are probably necessary to make the alpine gear a more common sight in shops. The last time I asked about alpine gear availability locally, I was told by a snowboard shop owner that our mountains (in VT!!!) were "not big enough" for that type of gear. SOOO, we have some educational outreach to do too. As for people new getting into alpine, that seems more complicated. Sure, as Bobdea says, the actual cost of the equipment is in line with most other snow sports. But I'd argue that its more risky to take the gamble on buying new stuff for a novice. Why?: 1) you've likely never tried the sport or the equipment before via renting or borrowing. 2.) you've probably only seen one person ever doing it in person--and have never seen it on TV or in magazines, so you don't know if its a legit activity to invest your time or money in, 3) for all those people who only get negligible amounts of time on the hill every year, will alpine provide the instant gratification to make the exerience fun? Remember, I think one of the fastest growing snowsports right now is snowshoeing--cheap, easy and accessible. That's the way people like things these days. On the other hand, I do think there are opportunities to grow the sport--especially among older riders and skiers who can't relate to jibber culture, and to the tons of gear freaks who're attracted to fringe, yet cutting edge stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 There's an interesting point by Philw, i.e. to convert softbooters. I've tried that several times and I always got the same responses: Softbooter: Maaan, those hardboots are very uncomfortable. You can't even walk in those. Me: Actually they are quite comfy, and it is much easier to walk in them compared to skiboots. But we don't walk, we ride. And btw, how do you know, when you never tried one? Softbooter: Those alpine sticks you can only use on groomers. Me: True, or almost true, but I don't really see you and most of the other softbooters leaving the groomers. Most of the funparks I saw in Europe are almost empty.... Softbooter: Those alpine sticks are only one directional. Me: Almost true, but 99% of the softbooters go only one direction, too. Softbooter: And I can also CARVE with my soft setup! Me: My ass.... Softbooter: And I am pretty fast on my freestyle deck, you'll eat my dust. Me: Did you also get similar responses? Ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Funny! Had two interesting interactions with softbooters last year. One really liked my gear--particularly the boots! I think he could see their advantages. The other one was somewhat strange. I passed a rather good softboot rider on my way own a trail. A few minutes later, he cut me off by laying two-- pretty impressive--EC's, then took off down another trail skidding along. It made me think, "This guy really must have something to prove." It was like he felt threatened. Its an interesting psychological point to consider. People don't like you to question their choices--or to be presented with evidence that makes them question their own choices. Some of it probably has to do with "pecking order" as well. Simply showing up on alpine equipment, which is by definition unusual, counter-cultural and therefore often attracts attention, might cause some insecure, overly fashion conscious jibbers to react negatively. They suddenly become one in a crowd, even if they are wearing studded belts and have the coolest stickers on their boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I only know of Prior, upzboots.com, and YYZCanuck.com in Canada, no retail stores. I've bought most of my used boards from the US. Softbooter: Maaan, those hardboots are very uncomfortable. You can't even walk in those. I have different responses, my version: "These are more comfortable than any softboot I've tried. Besides, did you buy your boots to pose in the lodge or to ride?" For the rest of the questions I just laugh heartily and suggest I could loan them a board to see for themselves if they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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