What is a snowboard?

[WinterGold]

Some boards in the "New Board Porn Thread for 2010" kept me wondering how to define the term "snowboard". So I looked up some definitions. A lot of them just concentrate on the "one board gliding down a snowy surface" concept. But this would also include a monoski, which nobody of us would consider to be a snowboard. Even the "one" board is problematic, if you look at splitboards or special plate constructions (e.g. Tinkler).

Some definitions include the "stance like a surfer". This is interesting, because for me the angulated stance is one of the most important criteria for defining our sport and its technique. But here comes the problem: How much angulation (binding angles) is needed? When does a snowboard stance begin? A skwal is not a snowboard, right?

Should there be a certain minimum width in the definition?

For competition there is a rule (I hope it is still up to date ...):

Snowboards must have a minimum width as described:

- gliding surface up to 135 cm: 14cm minimum width

- more than 135 cm: 16cm minimum width

Is that a good starting point? Too narrow or too wide?

Which brings me back to my starting question - What is a snowboard (for you)?

[b0ardski]

a snowboard was a bent piece of plywood with rubber staps & aluminum fins

a snowboard is a monoski mounted with a surfer stance

140 wide powder skis are snowboards for each foot

a sub 140 snowboards are skwals

a skwal is a monoski (single ski) mounted with a waterski stance

I met a guy in '85 rippin' a steep bump run on a single alpine ski with a normal alpine boot on the front foot & a sorel that fit a socket on the back foot, was it a skwal or a monoski?

young snowboarders have this morbid irrational fear of being considered a "skier", I could never understand this phenomena. It's all a form of skiing, it's all glisse, the rest is semantics.

1 board or 2 it's all skiing, even the jibbers who would rather die a horrible death than be considered a skier when driving to a ski area to use a ski lift to slide down a ski slope to the ski lodge to have a beer surrounded by skiers:barf:

I ride a snowboard with a surf stance (not duck) using poles and am always told " your that monoski guy that spins all the time". I am often asked in the skilift line, "what is that" to which I reply a snowboard. this is very confusing to most people so I've decided to start calling it a skirfboard, I am now a skirfer that rides a ski lift to slide down a ski slope to the ski lodge to have a beer with my fellow skiers.

rant over

[WinterGold]

a snowboard was a bent piece of plywood with rubber staps & aluminum fins

a snowboard is a monoski mounted with a surfer stance

140 wide powder skis are snowboards for each foot

a sub 140 snowboards are skwals

a skwal is a monoski (single ski) mounted with a waterski stance

I met a guy in '85 rippin' a steep bump run on a single alpine ski with a normal alpine boot on the front foot & a sorel that fit a socket on the back foot, was it a skwal or a monoski?

young snowboarders have this morbid irrational fear of being considered a "skier", I could never understand this phenomena. It's all a form of skiing, it's all glisse, the rest is semantics.

I ride a snowboard with a surf stance (not duck) using poles and am always told " your that monoski guy that spins all the time". I am often asked in the skilift line, "what is that" to which I reply a snowboard. this is very confusing to most people so I've decided to start calling it a skirfboard, I am now a skirfer that rides a ski lift to slide down a ski slope to the ski lodge to have a beer with my fellow skiers.

1 board or 2 it's all skiing, even the jibbers who would rather die a horrible death than be considered a skier when driving to a ski area to use a ski lift to slide down a ski slope to the ski lodge to have a beer surrounded by skiers:barf:

rant over

a bent piece of plywood - ok, that´s evolution

a monoski with a surf stance - for me the important part of a monoski is that the feet are side by side, otherwise it is not monoskiing

powder skis - so skiing and snowboarding are the same sport? I don´t think many people would agree

sub 140 snowboards are skwals - that is interesting, is that the definition of a skwal?

snowboard with poles - ??? Really? Why?

just semantics - right, but you do know how important language is for humans

I am not afraid of being called a skier (and I am not that young either :)), but it is simply not correct.

[b0ardski]

let's see, my usual response is why not, why do you(skier) use poles? when more info is requested, the long answer is I used to go backcountry with ski buddies and on the flat trail out would borrow their poles so I didn't have to step out & hobble.

Soon enough my buddy said phok you get your own poles. I found that since I had the poles with me I may as well use them.

The advantages far outwiegh the detriments.

PROS;

hiking aids

push across flats

passing slower traffic on cattracks

branch whacking in the trees

upper body stability in the bumps

aids spins & tricks in bumps & deepsnow

easier to get up after a fall, especially in deep snow

stepin binding release w/out bending over(irrelevant to 99.999% of hardbooters)

balance while stepping in, waiting for freinds

resting in line & on the steeps

blocks tailriders in the lift line

a place to park gloves while pissing or partaking in the trees

threading thru the wetbutts at the top of the lift

slope gage, ie curb feelers

cons;

inhibits armpit dragging

have to learn not to run over them

baggy pants teenagers make fun of you

I can ski without poles too but I like my crutches/security blanket.

Randy Price and other AASI demo team guys have tried to talk me out of it but no one can give me a good reason.

Your right side by side stance is skiing, toe to heel stance is skwalling, both feet at forward angle is alpine and duck foot makes my knees hurt.

[carvedog]

PROS;

hiking aids

push across flats

passing slower traffic on cattracks

branch whacking in the trees

upper body stability in the bumps

aids spins & tricks in bumps & deepsnow

easier to get up after a fall, especially in deep snow

stepin binding release w/out bending over(irrelevant to 99.999% of hardbooters)

balance while stepping in, waiting for freinds

resting in line & on the steeps

blocks tailriders in the lift line

a place to park gloves while pissing or partaking in the trees

threading thru the wetbutts at the top of the lift

slope gage, ie curb feelers

cons;

inhibits armpit dragging

have to learn not to run over them

baggy pants teenagers make fun of you

I can ski without poles too but I like my crutches/security blanket.

Randy Price and other AASI demo team guys have tried to talk me out of it but no one can give me a good reason.

Your right side by side stance is skiing, toe to heel stance is skwalling, both feet at forward angle is alpine and duck foot makes my knees hurt.

I see how you are now.

Much as an event cannot be observed without changing the event. Something cannot be defined without changing it as well.

I need no definition to do what I do.

[Danked]

If i saw a snowboarder with poles i'd push em over...

[b0ardski]

"Much as an event cannot be observed without changing the event. Something cannot be defined without changing it as well."

Yes the tree made a sound, If no human or animals or insects or other trees were around the tree that fell felt the vibrations:biggthump

[b0ardski]

If i saw a snowboarder with poles i'd push em over...

don't push people carrying weapons:nono:

pro

bonking unruly snowboarders

[WinterGold]

@b0ardski - I remember several years ago, we had to do some technique exercises with a pole in our hands. I hated the loss of freedom ... but I see that you found a lot of advantages for yourself. So if it works for you, that´s great .

@carvedog - very philosophical ;).

"I need no definition to do what I do" - Of course not and that´s fine, but that´s not really the point.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I met a guy in '85 rippin' a steep bump run on a single alpine ski with a normal alpine boot on the front foot & a sorel that fit a socket on the back foot, was it a skwal or a monoski?

"Voo-Doo" Snow Snake.

No, really.

Rocker anyone?

What I believe to be the great grandfather of the skwal.

[b0ardski]

Bryan the historian, way cool.

If I bought a pair of pontoons I'd have 2 powder skwals:cool:

[Erik J]

I used to like using poles while boarding. It was great on the steep and deep. I found them really handy as feelers, etc.

Once I got back to the groom I kept running them over. I did not like them at all on firm snow - especially the time that I punched myself in the face by riding into my pole planted fist. Try explaining that bloody nose to your riding buddies.

The poles were just another tool to use as needed.

I'm with carvedog on the "what is a snowboard" question

[b0ardski]

"Once I got back to the groom I kept running them over. I did not like them at all on firm snow - especially the time that I punched myself in the face by riding into my pole planted fist."

been there done that to the ribs. another one for the con list but that fits under learning not to run over them.

con

pole punch:eek:

[Corey]

side by side stance is skiing, toe to heel stance is skwalling, both feet at forward angle is alpine

This is a pretty good definition. I would add that a skwal has the feet close together, a snowboard has some separation. The average gangsta kid doesn't consider what we do to be snowboarding because it's not in TransWorld magazine.

LOL at the ski pole antics! They definitely would be handy while stopped or moving slowly. Not my cup of tea but I can definitely understand the reasoning.

While we're at it for random questions: When you ride a skwal, do you take a foot out on the lift? I tried riding a chair with both feet in on an alpine board - I won't make that mistake again! Lots of pressure/torque for the whole ride. I couldn't quite reach the toe buckle to release (no safety bar on the chair).

[b0ardski]

Still a lot of weird pressure on the knees with a skwal on the lift, take the back foot out for sure.

another Q

do any skwallers here use poles?

It feels awkward to me without them, but I'm a better carver now than the last time I tried.

[carvedog]

This is interesting, because for me the angulated stance is one of the most important criteria for defining our sport and its technique.

When you say "our sport" that somehow includes me in this crazy thing we do. That also made me think of these vids. The first one - because that to me defines more than anything about the board.

The second because it makes me smile.

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[WinterGold]

@carvedog - you are 100% spot on. I have these videos on VHS from back in the days and I have seen them so many times. That´s what it´s all about - really great!!!

And some of the best carving, even compared to today´s standard for me.

Their boards were around 22cm wide and their stances:

Jean Nerva 51° 43° 45cm

Peter Bauer 48° 43° 43cm

(A bit narrow, but very nice!)

So definitely "snowboards"

[inkaholic]

another Q

do any skwallers here use poles?

It feels awkward to me without them, but I'm a better carver now than the last time I tried.

Monodude. He has a bunch of years skiing and monoskiing and he can't seem to drop the crutches...I mean poles, now that he is also ripping on skwallies.

Ink

[BlueB]

Poles

Pretty much dropped them for skiing... They get in my way when carving low or teaching begginers. I would still use them for bumps and pow, but I'm always on snowboard in those conditions. I'm sure I would use them if I ski-raced again...

Snowboarding/Skiing

Same sport in my book:

Same slopes used;

Same objective - sliding on the snow, turning, using terrain features, being one with the nature;

Same techniques used - edging, skidding, weighing/unweighing, longitudinal balance...;

Same boots used... oh wait, this is an unpopullar oppinion, on BOL and in mainstream ;)

Definition of Snowboard:

Single, non-motorized, snow sliding apparatus, to which both feet are attached at an angle other then parallel or near-parallel to longitudinal axis.

[b0ardski]

Monodude's a brother of another mother, invited me to monopalooza last season but I can't afford to leave N. Idaho much these days. We'll ride together someday.

BlueB's a BOAM too, "One boot to rule them all"

[monodude]

To me a snowboard is just a wide ski that you only need one of. I think many do it to be different, Huh ? I'm like you guys. I ride because I like to... not to be different.

I ride skis, mono, skwal, and now alpine snowboard. All using my poles & ski boots. There are too many advantages so I'll endure the ridicule. They've been in my hands for 40 years.

Don

Feed the addiction...

[b0ardski]

Shane McConkey interview from Mar. 08

You’re fanatic about monoskiing: a sport completely unknown in Russia. Tell us what is monoskiing itself? And what are its advantages and disadvantages if compared with snowboarding, for example?

Monoskiing was mildly popular in the 1970s before snowboarding was invented. It’s basically a really fat ski. It looks like a snowboard but longer. You stand on it with your feet glued together. It works really well in powder. It’s like skiing in the way that you are facing forward and wearing ski boots and ski bindings and poles but like snowboarding because you are standing on one board. It is faster than

snowboarding, but not as versatile. It’s better than skiing for powder but that’s about it. The technique for riding the things is exactly the same as mogul skiing technique - plant your pole, drive both hands forward, wiggle your hips, get laughed at by everyone. If you can be comfortable with the fact that everyone out on the hill is laughing at you then monoskiing is actually pretty fun.

sorry for the threadjack

snowboard stance is WAY more practical, hoping to get a magic ski from Coda, snowboard one run ski the next, same board, same boots, same bindings, same stoke.

[ncermak]

it is defined in both the USASA and FIS rules...I can look up the citation if someone really needs it

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

it is defined in both the USASA and FIS rules...I can look up the citation if someone really needs it

Neither existed when I started snowboarding. Obviously they need to define everything. ;) It would be interesting to see what they come up with.

We still called it Snowboarding though :) A few years prior to my starting they called it all sorts of things. Sticking, skiboarding, snoboarding, snurfing, snow surfing, le-surf, etc.

[ncermak]

151.01 Snowboard

A snowboard is equipment, which permits gliding on all snow conditions. The bindings must be affixed in a sideways manner on the longitudinal axis of the board. The boots cannot overlap each other. The minimal width of boards up to 135 cm in gliding length shall be 14 cm, and for boards 135 cm or longer in gliding length the width shall be no less than 16 cm.