Tinkler Rocketman

[Bruce Varsava]

I built a few fully cambered and moderately stiff race T boards with effectives about 163. Waaay to hard to control as they just lock in and would not slide. The decamber allows you to maintain a stiff board for power but still have control. Does aid in turn initiation too however you could thin out the nose and somewhat get a good initiation but then they get kinda flimsy and I would think more likely to dig in and fold up. The pre bent nose gets the job done and is still a bit stiffer to prevent overbending.

This stuff works great for freeecarve as well as I use the full race decamber on boards like the 88 Monsters. Without it, you wouldn't want to be getting in the way of one:eek:

It simply leaves less edge engaged when the board is at a lower angle to the snow for easy sliding and fully engages when up high on rail. Best of both worlds!

How much you use is a function of effective edge vs rider weight for a given lamination structure. Since with metal we cannot change the thickness of the metal, we need to be able to control the power of the board otherwise. With glass boards, you would just use a lighter biax fabric for a somewhat similar result of less power.

BTW racers call it feathering and not sliding;)

[Mike T]

I'm riding on NSR also even i'm not racer, just old fart :rolleyes: who likes to experience different stuff to learn

My NSR is my favorite tool of them all for balls-out freecarving. Rails great at high speeds and I live to tell about it

[Jack M]

Jaysey

Down at post #5

haha, no, Dave was joking. See the wink?

[MUD]

haha, no, Dave was joking. See the wink?

Aaah, I missed that.:o

[Rob Stevens]

Yah... This was tried in the past, but racing was alot different back then.

The pitches weren't as steep. The offsets were greater and it was just easier all around.

We used to carve those courses from top to bottom.

When dual racing took over and courses had to be identical left and right, the flow seemed to go out of them, replaced with a more mechanical turn. This turn had to be performed regardless of terrain, causing the athletes to reexamine how they went around the gates. The modern race course generally requires a bigger centre pivot move above the gate, in the rise line, which takes place on a flatter base and is really side slipping against the line of direction. If your tip and tail dig in, not only will it be slower in a sideslip, but it will hesitate even going there. To paraphrase Bruce, a traditional board doesn't "unlock" as easily.

Once you've set your direction, you're going to increase the edge angle rapidly. It goes on and off like a light switch, rather than gradually like a regular fully carved turn. In this regard, you'll take the board almost immediately to a fully deformed state.

The modern track is much more like a zig zag than an arc. Sliding is slower, without doubt, but the path taken is shorter from gate to gate.

The fact that this has been done before, with no success, is immaterial. Riding with no bindings was done for years before we got onto it again with the NoBoard. What makes it different now is the years of skill and practice being taken back to an old way of doing things. An old idea in a new context makes for an entirely new experience.

Pokkis might not race, but he now owns a board that should do well in one.

[philfell]

This is a joke, right?

Everything I think I know about snowboarding tells me this board will suck horse apples on the groom. But I've never ridden a rockered board, so what do I know.

Don't naysay until you ride a rocker board first. The first turn I made on a skate banana last season, my first impression was......Oh my this technology was make the perfect race board for steep, icey SL racing. There are reports of many of the top World Cup racers testing boards with full rocker for icey courses.

For buffed flatter terrain I think I'd still prefer a board with camber, but when it's steep and firm I'd take a rocker.

[yyzcanuck]

haha, no, Dave was joking. See the wink?

Was I? Kessler is doing some interesting things with the current board shapes.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Yesterday one of our Pro-Patrol loaded the chair just ahead of me. I watched as he skied below me on the chair (soft groomed 36+ inches in the past 48 hours) He was no doubt headed for the pow, but he was carving some beautiful gs carves on very rockered long skis. Looks like it worked well for his weight, conditions and ability.

Looking for a pair to add to the big board quiver.

Rocker= Concave= rocking chair

Camber= Convex=

Personally I try to avoid Reverse or Anti anything since there is a word to describe it without it?

Or perhaps we should be describing Camber as "Reverse Rocker" ?

Same applies to "Progressive" and "Anti-Progressive"

Both increasing and decreasing sidecut can be seen as "Progressive"

Progressively larger or progressively smaller. "Anti-Progressive" is simply the opposite. Of what?

Would it not be clearer if we just used rocker or camber?

Not to confuse the issue further, but the Farmer in the rocker IS reading the PROGRESSIVE FARMER :o:)

Bryan

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Last season I bought a Kessler from one of the pro racers. When it arrived I was afraid it was bent!! I had a previous Kessler and I had heard of the de-cambered nose. This just looked like more than that. Well fortunately I was polite and careful in asking about it, and FORTUNATELY the seller was not quick to judge or reply rashly. It is the way they are made, really!! I appreciate his patience with me.

Then I finally got to ride it!!. (SES08) First impression, squirrelly on the flats or running straight (neither of which I do allot of anyway) However, it rolled into the turns very easy and when I got it loaded it up, powerfull. I felt very much at home on it right away. I loved the board and its weight. It was very damp and rode as close to my "Anton" Tinkler as anything I had ridden before. Day later I broke my leg and sold it to a good friend from my hospital bed in Aspen. He seems to like it allot.

PS. I had promised two BOL members that I would pass it along if it was not considerably better than the Tinkler I already enjoyed. The broken leg made it easier to decide. I really liked the board set up and would have liked to put a few more turns on it before deciding (Hint, hint)

Bryan

[Jack M]

When dual racing took over and courses had to be identical left and right, the flow seemed to go out of them, replaced with a more mechanical turn. ...

The modern track is much more like a zig zag than an arc. Sliding is slower, without doubt, but the path taken is shorter from gate to gate.

Welp... this doesn't sound much like the sport I love.

[Jack M]

Don't naysay until you ride a rocker board first. The first turn I made on a skate banana last season, my first impression was......Oh my this technology was make the perfect race board for steep, icey SL racing. There are reports of many of the top World Cup racers testing boards with full rocker for icey courses.

For buffed flatter terrain I think I'd still prefer a board with camber, but when it's steep and firm I'd take a rocker.

I guess I've been told. WTF... racers using rockered boards... dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria. Where is my god now??

When you say steep and firm, you mean a race course, right? Because for freecarving steep firm groom, I can't fathom rocker not sucking.

[James Ong]

I guess I've been told. WTF... racers using rockered boards... dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria. Where is my god now??

When you say steep and firm, you mean a race course, right? Because for freecarving steep firm groom, I can't fathom rocker not sucking.

Yikes !!! next thing you'll be pimpin EC :lol:

Gotta try one of these, someone please bring one to SES.

[tinks]

I just want to say a couple of things to the Moderator a go go. This thread started with a guy from Finland stoked about his new board having just gotten off the hill with a good experience and thought he would share. Then it got weird with the Moderator attacking his decision for buying one of my new designs. The Moderator went on to be very rude to me, not knowing my background in rocker and camber boards. I have been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by major manufacturers like K2 and Herb O'Brien Water Skis. I have had design consulting contracts with both of these companies specifically for my knowledge on camber and pressure distribution using external systems. Having worked in the K2 lab, Salomon lab in France, and having testing at Boeing with some of my other external vibration systems, I do not need to be schooled by Mr. Moderator a go go about camber and rocker. My designs are not a joke, they are serious designs respected by many.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Yikes !!! next thing you'll be pimpin EC :lol:

Gotta try one of these, someone please bring one to SES.

James, working on it. Unfortunately the boards Mike builds are "One Offs" for clients and it is hard to decide what to build as a "Demo", not to mention the costs. I have a few I loan to people that agree to wear a leash (to me) around their neck while riding. That and they have to sign a 8 page and the title to thier car. ;)

We seriously hope to be able to provide more options for riders to try the Tinkler boards. Few want to risk loaning them out.

I would love to get your "EC" imput for sure. Keep in mind, Mike will build anything you want. The boards are a result of the owner's ideas plugged into Mike's design and building brain. So far the results have been amazing!!

It is up to YOU to know what you want in a board. I KNOW YOU DO!!:)

PS, Email Mike with or myself if you are interested in building a board system of your own.

I just got off the phone and Mike will find time to talk with you about your ideas for your ultimate board.

[xy9ine]

I just want to say a couple of things to the Moderator a go go. This thread started with a guy from Finland stoked about his new board having just gotten off the hill with a good experience and thought he would share. Then it got weird with the Moderator attacking his decision for buying one of my new designs. The Moderator went on to be very rude to me, not knowing my background in rocker and camber boards. I have been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by major manufacturers like K2 and Herb O'Brien Water Skis. I have had design consulting contracts with both of these companies specifically for my knowledge on camber and pressure distribution using external systems. Having worked in the K2 lab, Salomon lab in France, and having testing at Boeing with some of my other external vibration systems, I do not need to be schooled by Mr. Moderator a go go about camber and rocker. My designs are not a joke, they are serious designs respected by many.

despite the perceived negativity, it's an interesting discussion, and i'd love to hear your perspective on the design. your boards are things of beauty & there's not much info to be had about them out there. any info would be much appreciated.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

despite the perceived negativity, it's an interesting discussion, and i'd love to hear your perspective on the design. your boards are things of beauty & there's not much info to be had about them out there. any info would be much appreciated.

Please understand if Mike doesn't reply right away. He is busy building boards and will look to provide more answers as time allows. I spoke briefly with Mike after his last post, I got the impression he would not be checking his email or posts till Wednesday at the soonest. Although I do not directly speak for Mike on technical issues, I will help where I can and time allows. I have been laid up and dealing with important personal details, however, I hope to be able to update the websites with photos and details soon. Time allowing. Bryan

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[Coloradoking]

True, but do we need it??????

it is not required when free riding; but as soon as you start trying to ride that thing through a course you will be rocked in the dome piece ( pretty much) by the fact that you have your weight centered in the board as opposed to distributed throughout the board

[dano]

I just want to say a couple of things to the Moderator a go go. This thread started with a guy from Finland stoked about his new board having just gotten off the hill with a good experience and thought he would share. Then it got weird with the Moderator attacking his decision for buying one of my new designs. The Moderator went on to be very rude to me, not knowing my background in rocker and camber boards. I have been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by major manufacturers like K2 and Herb O'Brien Water Skis. I have had design consulting contracts with both of these companies specifically for my knowledge on camber and pressure distribution using external systems. Having worked in the K2 lab, Salomon lab in France, and having testing at Boeing with some of my other external vibration systems, I do not need to be schooled by Mr. Moderator a go go about camber and rocker. My designs are not a joke, they are serious designs respected by many.

Tinklers are hands down THE most super exotic techie boards ever produced. Split tails/noses, adjustable dampening rods, surfboard rocker.... YOWZA! If one can't wrap their head around the concept or try one out...maybe a little ( or a LOT more) ego gagging is in order?

BEST THREAD IN YEARS!

[Jack M]

Okay tinkler... send me one.

I give you my word on my reputation here that I will give it a fair review.

(and fyi... I was asking if MUD was joking with me, not calling your boards a joke.)

[Hotbeans]

cripes. Now I'm interested. And I haven't even received my virus yet..

Anybody like to buy a few hundred pounds of single-estate coffee?

[snowboardfast]

There are some rockered boards being made today. Phill mentioned the skate banana and I believe K2 makes a rockered board as well. I would like to know how those ride. Phil did you like the skate banana? Did it have better edgehold on harder snow conditions with the rocker and the magna traction? I would be willing to try these boards as I ride soft boots as well. Maybe our builder of the Tinkler can comment on the k2 rockered board as maybe he helped design it. It would be interesting to find out how all of these boards work. This may be new ground that is way better. I would like to know as It is fun to try new things in this sport. Don't say that rocker doesn't work if you don't have a background in snowboard r&d. I have an open mind and think all these ideas are great. I am not qualified to design snowboards but am willing to try different boards. That is why we have this sport to begin with as people were willing to go out on a limb to make it happen. Have fun try lots of different boards.

[Hotbeans]

I was just talking to a friend of mine today over lunch about his board that has magnatraction. He absolutely raved about the edgehold on boilerplate/ice. He's riding a libtech freeride deck w/ softies, but he's thinking he has a "hard time" breaking the edge hold with this board..

Hmm. We'll see next tuesday.

[MUD]

My designs are not a joke, they are serious designs respected by many.

Me included. Sorry I didn't do a better job sticking up for you......:(

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Okay tinkler... send me one.

I give you my word on my reputation here that I will give it a fair review.

(and fyi... I was asking if MUD was joking with me, not calling your boards a joke.)

Happy to get that built for you Jack. Really!! Unfortunately, we do not have a single board ready to ship.

They are made one at a time (well, sometimes two different boards are being built at the same time, they seldom if ever the same board design)

Send a USPS Money order for 1000$(down payment is 1/2 the approx board cost), your specs and your shipping address. Wait a month or two and we will have it for you. :) We certainly don't question your reputation. PS, I get mine first (I would have it already if I was certain of things) I.E wasn't sure if I could ride till yesterday! I am one happy camper right now!!!! Woo Hooo!!

Bryan

Feel free to contact Mike or myself through the site.

I am happy to field questions when Mike is busy and visa-versa.

FYI, full system boards are running between 1500-2000 USD

Largely depending on what materials and what "Systems" you wish to incorporate.

Mike ships boards world wide (shipping is additional of course)

[Jack M]

Send a USPS Money order for 1000$

No, this would be for review only. If this is truly the next big thing, he should be happy to get it out there. After I'm done with my review, I'll ship it back and it can become a demo with which to educate others, or you can sell it for a small discount.

But if he's not sure this thing will carve well on eastern hardpack/ice, he probably won't want to have it reviewed on those conditions. I don't think it will work well for freecarving here; that's really my only point in this thread. But if I am wrong then lets prove it.