Derf Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 I have a real problem with all the people who can't drive a truck but drive SUVs as well, but, puhleeze, a Toyota FJ-40 is a big toy.My Expedition (check the spelling) is currently towing our 25 foot long camper thru southern CO and, soon, SE Utah. Granted, it is not my daily driver... $10/gallon gas will ultimately mean nothing unless a meaningful alternative to the internal combustion engine is developed. I remember the protests when gas hit $3 transiently before going back to to $2. And this is nothing compared to 30 years ago. Americans are going to drive. If you are not living in an area of dense population and, in that scenario, public transportation is exceedingly expensive to a community, you are going to drive. The American job market is moving south and west and there's little public transportation in these areas for the aforementioned reason. And, please, save your Prius crap. The batteries they use make up for whatever gas savings you think you are gaining now-check back with us in 4 years when you need to replace the batteries. Oops, you'll probably be buying a new one-f*ck the environment, right? People driving trucks is indeed a problem. Most don't understand the principles of inertia and center of gravity and lots don't realize that what they drive is big and that the blindspots are proportionnaly bigger. The goal of driving a Prius is not saving money, it's to pollute less while driving a car. With the price of Nickel, the batteries are recycled. The problem is not the internal combustion engine, electric cars won't solve the problems, hydrogen even less likely; the problem is the dependence to the car (and the car oriented development). Here's some easy reading for you... ENERGY OUTLOOK.Canadian exports to the US are linked to production through NAFTA. NAFTA requires that Canada export a large percentage of its natural gas production to the US. I believe we will soon (within a few years?) become an importing country with regard to NG. Strange. We'll have to continue to export and yet we'll have to import to meet our own domestic requirements. The way this is going, we're likely to end up with those NG terminals here in Québec. There are 2 projects: Cacouna and Rabaska. And there are lots of people opposed to them. I didn't think they were related to the oil sands. I read a book a while back that is particularly relevant to this discussion - "A Short History of Progress" by Ronald Wright. I wish I could find it and reread it but I must've loaned it out.I remember this - Wright says that the idea that technology and progress is the answer to all of the the world's ills is a recent one - a Victorian one. Progess, at first, seems to make life easier but it eventually reaches a stage where it threatens us. He calls it the "progress trap.". Wright argues that technology will not save us. A complete, fundamental change in the way we live is the only answer. An interesting read. It makes you think twice about "advancements" like alternative fuels which, if successful, will simply perpetuate our lifestyle of over-consumption. As always, your comments are among the most insightful that I read on Bomber. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlVNyJFBCxc&feature=related I saw it last weekend, very interesting, worth watching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 If a nuke is dropped on an arab city, it isn't going to be over until a US city is nuked. BobD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartron Posted July 7, 2008 Report Share Posted July 7, 2008 At $10/gallon, maybe people will stop !@#$ ridiculing and marginalizing me for not owning a car and for getting around by biking, walking and public transportation. And maybe the people in this cult called Boulder (CO), which prides itself on how much of a bike town it is, will stop blindly assuming I own a car. And maybe my oldest brother will stop telling me how I'll never get a girlfriend if I don't own a car. Ok, that's my rant for today. :) 'later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted July 8, 2008 Report Share Posted July 8, 2008 I was lucky this past winter that I had a few friends who had the same class schedule as me so I rarely went solo. Some days only cost me $5. I put 15,000 miles on my car this season, and 80% of it was split with at least 2 other people. Still, a ton of gas, but it was an epic season that left me broke. This winter, prices might hit $5 per gallon, but as long as at least one person comes with me, it won't be too bad. I guarantee that I'll have at least 3 others with me, since I'll be limited to only weekends this coming year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think we need to take our heads out of our butts and get back to Nuclear. Check out the new Pebble Bed Reactor (PBR!!) - it can't melt down, and if left unattended it will just fizzle out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 yeah I've been following those for a few years now....seems like a really cool idea...but since it's not an american design we probably will ignore it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think wave power is where its at, long term. There are a lot of problems with durability and there are a number of technical hurdles to overcome but wave generators can be made to be durable and maintainable, there is a huge amount of energy in the ocean to be tapped. There was a good writeup in one of the recent economists about it wave energy. One English (I think?) engineering company managed to get the cost-per-kilowatt down to the same levels as current nuclear power technology, but the nuclear industry lobby somehow managed to get their funding cut as soon as they achieved that, or otherwise shut them down (I can't remember exactly how). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 wave power - no way. huge NIMBY factor there - same as wind. shoreline is prime real estate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 yer thinking like a land lubber...put it to sea...there is no reason that wind power has to take up realestate...the Chinese put theirs in the South China Sea, there are plans to put a wind farm 7miles SW of Block Island that would not only provide all the power needed for the island itself but also up to 20% of the state of RI (with the added benefit of puttin the island on the states grid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 wave power - no way. huge NIMBY factor there - same as wind. shoreline is prime real estate. Wave power does not have to be on the shoreline ... in fact, many of the proposals would be pretty far offshore, some of them would be totally underwater ... some solutions are designed for the shoreline, but there are a lot of different systems being tested and designed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 yer thinking like a land lubber...put it to sea...there is no reason that wind power has to take up realestate...the Chinese put theirs in the South China Sea, there are plans to put a wind farm 7miles SW of Block Island that would not only provide all the power needed for the island itself but also up to 20% of the state of RI (with the added benefit of puttin the island on the states grid) There was a proposed windfarm off of Mass that would just barely be visible from Martha's Vinyard. Kennedy helped MV citizens kill it because it would spoil the view. Wave power does not have to be on the shoreline ... in fact, many of the proposals would be pretty far offshore, some of them would be totally underwater ... some solutions are designed for the shoreline, but there are a lot of different systems being tested and designed. I didn't realize wave "farms" could be out at sea - that's cool. The only wave power generator I knew of was a turbine on the coast, I believe in the PNW. It was (is?) a column or columns with non-reversing turbines in them, driven by the air forced up and down the columns by the notoriously huge waves in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 There was a proposed windfarm off of Mass that would just barely be visible from Martha's Vinyard. Kennedy helped MV citizens kill it because it would spoil the view. I heard about that. Sucks. Totally depressing. I didn't realize wave "farms" could be out at sea - that's cool. The only wave power generator I knew of was a turbine on the coast, I believe in the PNW. It was (is?) a column or columns with non-reversing turbines in them, driven by the air forced up and down the columns by the notoriously huge waves in the area. there are a lot of different prototypes in testing, I think the only deployed and in-use versions are near the shore, but from what I can tell, the most promising technologies seem to take advantage of bigger and less violent swells out at sea, or at least, not near the shoreline; the idea being that the waves are generally less violent, but contain vastly more kinetic energy. (more energy during calmer seas, and less wear and tear). One of the challenges is getting the equipment to survive storms out at sea though. here is the article that I was referring to, in the same issue there was a good article about wind farms that also discussed oceanic deployment way out at sea: http://www.economist.com/search/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11482565&CFID=12812265&CFTOKEN=72499976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 There was a proposed windfarm off of Mass that would just barely be visible from Martha's Vinyard. Kennedy helped MV citizens kill it because it would spoil the view. yeah it's kinda stupid considering the cost of electricity out on those islands in the first place, if you have a wind farm out further than they are it is easy to run a cable to/through the island on its way to shore...said cable can also back feed power if needed when there isn't enough wind (I know rare) to add to the grid. It's funny how the supposedly "green party" members don't want to be green when it comes to their privileges (Kennedy & Gore for instance) but they want all of us to do as they say:smashfrea As a Side Note T Boone Pickens has been pushing wind power in Texas for a while now, when we drove across country 3 years ago we saw a lot of turbines and from what I've read recently it's multiplied exponentially since then. I'm also surprised that we don't use more Geothermal Energy especially in California, Oregon Washington, Idaho, Montana and Hawaii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 There's one on the Cape in Pocasset. I think the Navy uses it to power their training ship that is permanently docked there, but not sure. Germany has really embraced the wind farms and has more then any other country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 were of sailboarders doing speed runs with a wind farm in the background. Great Stuff!! Here in N.C., we're ideally positioned for wind power - great regimes in our mountains and on the Outer Banks (to which many of you kite boarders can attest.) A "Ridge Law", passed after Sugar Mountain Ski lopped off an entire mountain top for a condo complex, poses hurdles in the Appalachians. However, a modest scale project is close to approval on our coast. To my eye, there's a huge difference between some towers and fans on the horizon as opposed to a refinery or LNG terminal. We'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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