Economics of snowboarding

[tex1230]

I must be nuts, but I haven't had a season pass in years.

I also haven't had a season rental. Ever.

At what point do these investments become worth it for a "Weekend Warrior"?

I figure without having a rental and pass, I average 20 days a year...some years more, some less...This year, including the coming weekend, I'll be hitting 15 days. With discounts through work and multi-day passes, I figure I average around $45/day for me & Mrs Tex, and the little guy is usually free or close to it (that changes next year as he will be 7 and moves into "junior" rates) - so figure $30/day for him.

Lodging averages in around $200/night - almost always rent a condo so a little more expensive, but saves around $75 a day on food)

so for my average of 20 days a year, I figure I spend $320/day or $6,400 for lifts and lodging.

If I up that to 45 days (every weekend, a couple of 3-day weekends, and a week (ECES? ) it would end up costing $14,400 for the season...

assuming I stay at Stratton - arguably the most expensive pass in the east - I'd spend $899 for each adult season pass and $649 for kid's pass = $2447 for passes, leaving $11,953 for lodging... or $265/night.

If I stick to the schedule of riding every weekend from Thanksgiving to the end of March, I'd save $65/ night or $2925 for the season.

That seems like a lot of money, but there are a couple of other factors to consider...

1) seasonal rental in the stratton area would probably end up around the same after taxes, utilities, snow removal, etc... (I could probably cut this a little by getting a smaller place farther from the mountain, but my experience and conversation with others tells me that there is a real security risk if you go to cheaper housing)

2) I am locked in to one mountain for the season

3) having to come up with the entire payment up front is much less convenient that pay-as-you-go

4) if we have a year like we just had, when most of the early weekends just weren't worth the trip, the per night cost skyrockets.

So, for a "Weekend Warroir" family, Is a pass and a rental really worth it?

Am I missing something in my calculations? I'd love to know other people's annual budgets and see how they compare.

-tex

[Jack M]

you should also consider buying a place and renting it out half the time to cover the mortgage.

For me and my wife (and now my son, and next year my daughter), snowboarding and skiing are a lifestyle, and we will do whatever it takes to maintain it. Hey, if the kids wants private college bad enough, they can win themselves scholarships. Nothing wrong with UMaine!!

Oh, and the one mountain thing is a good thing - when you know every inch of it, you can really concentrate on your carving without wondering what's over the next drop/around the next corner.

[tex1230]

For me and my wife (and now my son, and next year my daughter), snowboarding and skiing are a lifestyle, and we will do whatever it takes to maintain it.

I hear that - I have been known to skip food and water to finance my snow addiction.

[modifiede30]

This is a good thread. For my family, we decided for this year that we'd get season passes for myself and my daughter (and my wife just goes occasionally).

Here's how things broke down for me:

$369 for a weekend/holiday/school break only at Wachusett in MA. I know this is the most crowded time to be there, but if you can get there at 7:30am, you'll have fresh tracks every morning and its not that bad until 11 or so. This is also the only time I can ever get to the mountain unless I take time off at work which is very difficult.

$49/lift ticket at the same mountain.

If I go 8 times, I've paid for the pass so its a nobrainer. I have no lodging (30 minute drive away), and usually only go up from 7:30-12, and eat at home. If my daughter comes, we usually go later and stay through lunch.

Next year, my daughter is too old to get the cheap season pass though, but I can't imagine its still won't be worthwhile.

Its a small mountain but it has some nice runs. We often take a weekend trip up north into VT/NH/ME, or maybe 2, but we can often find deals that really only cost us $400, maybe $500 for the whole weekend. Overall, I'd probably say we only spend about $1000-$1500 for the whole season on lift tickets.

Its the equipment that really hurts, and this year we completely re-outfitted the whole family with skis, boots, bindings, 2 boards (both going back up for sale since I didn't like them), UPZ boots, and Catek's. The equipment is where we spent a lot of money this year - so as I see it - next year will be really cheap for us unless I buy another board :D .

[Neil Gendzwill]

The loyalty cards are worth it. If you buy before Christmas for example, you can get a Sunshine or Louise card for the price of a lift ticket. The first day is free, the next two days are discounted, then the 4th day is free and so forth. It's overall about a 40% savings over the regular prices. They're also good at affiliated resorts, so the Louise card works at Fernie, Kimberly & Nakiska and the Sunshine one at Marmot. They also give you discounts at assorted shops/restaurants. Haven't done the math lately, but it used to be that you'd need to ski about 25 days before the season pass was a better deal.

Not sure if any US resorts offer the same deals.

[tex1230]

yes there are similar deals at US resorts...but I get discounted tickets through work (workingadvantage.com) that are cheaper on the weekends.

(about $50 for stratton/killington/okemo)

[jnshapiro]

A pass worked out great for me this year. At Kirkwood. It was about $489 for the pass, good every day this season. In addition, for 5 tickets on weekends I get $10 off (that's $50 in savings). Weekday tickets are $45 with the pass, that's $22 off per ticket, unlimited use.

This year, so far I've put in 13 days at Kirkwood (might go tomorrow). At regular prices, $871. My wife went 8 times, 3 were midweek. Regular prices that's $536.

So, I've so far saved $382 on my tickets and $116 on hers for a total savings of $498.

Season pass worked out real well for me.

Your results will vary depending on ticket prices, pass prices, and the number of days there.

[Allee]

This might be entertaining.

Beginning of season - Sunshine card $73, Louise card $73, Snowmax card $134.

Locally, I've done five days at Sunshine (3 lift passes bought) 1 day at Louise, (bought pass), 1 at Nakiska (free day). Each lift pass costs around $60, and for each day a tank of gas to get there and back is $40, lunch and bevvies on the hill about $20. So for the local stuff count about $660.

For trips - New Years at Fernie blew through about $400 with lodging, one lift pass, dinners out and partying. One night at Kicking Horse with gas, food and accommodation (lift pass on Snowmax card) $120. Weekend at Panorama including lodging, dinner, gas (lift passes on Snowmax card) $200. Trip to Sun Peaks including airfare, parking, food, dinner and hostel, and one day's lift pass (2 free days from snow show) $650.

Gear - new boots $597, new bindings $269, parts to refurb my Bombers $70, new jacket $265, new Coiler $400, wax and tools estimate $150.

So grand total $4061, or $271 per day over 15 days. Thus explaining why come March, I don't have enough money for the utility bills. Thank God spring is here.

And I'm thinking that mine is probably relatively cheap, in that I'm only a day trip away from most of my riding.

I've looked at the season pass thing, but I like to travel. We have 10 excellent resorts within day trip or weekend distance, some will have better snow than others at any given time, and it's great to have a change of scenery and be out in the mountains for the weekend. Plus our season passes are expensive - I think the full RCR one runs about $1300?? Neil's math is spot on ... a discount card is a way better deal for me.

[BlueB]

It's simple with the passes for me - free anual staff pass at Cypress. With the close proximity (35min) of the mountain, gas is not too much. Actually, since I moved from Kids Ski Camp to Snowboard School, the wages cover the fuel costs... There's a lot of mountains within day-trip distance, but I'm too lazy and spoiled.

I did one day trip to Whistler and had 50% off the lift ticket as CASI member - $40 or so...

Now, gear is more complicated... With all the stuff that I bought, sold or traded this season, I kind of lost the track...

Boris

[Steve Dold]

Hey Joel, last year my Kirkwood unlimited pass was $360 in a big group buy that a bunch of us do every year. At over $60 for a day ticket that payed for itself pretty fast. Keep an eye out for any posts or emails that might go around asking about that deal on the Tahoecarvers site. Also my wife took a snowboard lesson at Kirkwood last year and at the end of the lesson, they offered her a deal called the "First Adventure Pass" that gives unlimited lifts, rentals and lessons for one year. Talk about a bargain. It's not valid on lift 5 and 10 (the blacks), but it was still an amazing deal at about $300 (that included the first lesson & rental). Only catch is that you can only do it once, it's supposed to be for "beginners". Ask about it if you have anyone going that hasn't already had a pass there.

Our season was crappy (warm) and I haven't gone this year much, but did break even. Most times I go 20-30 times, that's around $1500 in passes. Sometimes stay in South Lake Tahoe for $55/night at the High Country Inn. OK place and you can walk across the street to the Lake Tahoe Pizza company.

[Przemek/Brooklyn]

Here are my expenses:

1) share in my rental house 1200$, 20 minuts from killington (minus guest fees around 200$)

2) gold skipass for K something over 500$

3) food and gas around 60$ a weekend (depends if i shere the ride)

i would guess it would be around 3000$ for seson.

(not counting any alcoholoic baverages)

I had around 33 days as far, hopping to reach 40

that would be avarage 75$ a day all together. It is not cheep in US.

I am locked in american ski company and trying not to go anywhere else (M snow,Killington,Attitash,Sugerlof, Somday river)

I did only one day trip to windham this seson.

[jnshapiro]

Steve, I'll be keeping my eyes and ears open for that for next season. My wife is planning to get a pass too. Thanks.

[jtslalom]

tex1230,

I'm sure you are happy where you are living but one idea is to move to a town that has a mountain. I'm sure there are a few places in Ct or Mass. that have ski areas. Move to that town and become a local. The weekend warrior thing will then become a night thing, provided the ski area has night skiing and riding. You can definately get more time out and the expense would only be the seasons lift pass. I live 3.5 miles from a ski area and work 8.5 miles from my house as a HS teacher. I can be on the slopes at 3:30 pm on ANY given day and ride any days I have off including weekends. It costs me $229 a season. My daughter is 5 and gets a free season pass until she is 7. My son is now 2 but will also get a free pass until he is 7. I ususally ride 30 - 40 times a year. It works for me.

[cliffh]

A Stratton value pass good at okemo and stratton is $549 pre-season. That's a no brainer.

Depending on your standards there are sub-10k a season rentals available. If it's a condo you don't have to pay for plowing. Anyone who talks about a security risk in VT must be high. I've been renting in Londonderry for 8 years and it is way cheaper then around $tratton. It also has the advantage of being relatively close to Okemo so we can mix it up. The nice things about a rental is you don't have to drag your stuff back and forth every weekend, being able to shower and relax before the drive home, you can cook in instead of going to restaurants, and basically hang out in a proper living room instead of being trapped in a hotel room. It's a much more relaxing higher quality experience. Try finding a share in a ski house. As Jack said – it is a commitment to a lifestyle. It’s not cheap but done right it’s very rewarding.

[Neil Gendzwill]

For me, it's best not to do the math. After I look at the cost of driving 800 km, renting a condo, paying lift tickets for my kids as well as my wife and I, restaurant meals, maybe lessons, kennel costs for the dog... it's just ugly. Good thing I love it so much but honestly my RRSPs would be way healthier without it.

[durace]

A Sunapee value pass is $579 next year this gets you Sunapee Okemo and Stratton, 14 days that you would never want to ride anyway blocked.

We found a fixer upper 4 miles from Sunapee, I can see the towers at the top from my deck, and picked it up for 53K 4 years ago about 750 sq ft. The fixing up has SUk#&d but when winter comes I forget all the pain with a 10 min drive to the hill. I'm almost done and now can say what a great investment! We do Okemo on saturdays sometimes but with Sunapee so close it is easy to get lazy.

Even with the worst season in years I'm over 20 days and still going! No regrets so far!

Paul

[bjvircks]

don't forget to factor in the downside risk of a season-ending injury which might make the big $$ season payout difficult or impossible to recoup. Another risk is an unexpected family need for the big $$ like totaled car or healthcare for a child. While there would be benefits to be had from season-long purchases, I guess I'd prefer to pay as I go (if I were in an area that had real ski areas). My exception to this is the $230 season pass (bought preseason) to my 475 vert 'hill'.

If I had SUBSTANTIAL discretionary $$ I'd probably opt for a season long setup.

Brad

[modifiede30]

don't forget to factor in the downside risk of a season-ending injury which might make the big $$ season payout difficult or impossible to recoup. Another risk is an unexpected family need for the big $$ like totaled car or healthcare for a child. While there would be benefits to be had from season-long purchases, I guess I'd prefer to pay as I go (if I were in an area that had real ski areas). My exception to this is the $230 season pass (bought preseason) to my 475 vert 'hill'.

If I had SUBSTANTIAL discretionary $$ I'd probably opt for a season long setup.

Brad

Just one comment - the local ski hill here (Wachusett) has been known to issue a credit if you have a season ending injury and a MD's note that confirms you won't be back for the season - prorated by month. I don't know how hard my friend had to push, but he ended up with a fair amount of credits that he's been using all season this year after a really bad accident last year - and it wasn't even on the slopes.

[Bullwings]

I bought a season pass to the worst local mountain ever. However, even though i only went 7 days, I still go my money's worth for that season pass.

I went 9 more days at another resort, which if i got a season pass there it would not have paid off unless I put all 16 days at that mountain. That's because they offer $15 and $19 dollar vouchers if you leave before 1pm (pricing depends on if they want to price gouge for what is considered "peak season times"). Even then, that's cutting it close for me.

I'm thinking next year, to pay as I go since this season was so crappy. That, and I can't see more than 40 days on the slopes given time factors. If i got 30 days, that would put me at a $400 dollar loss, which I'm willing to soak up.

Which gets me to, the whole thing of how do you people put 50-60+ days or more on the slopes? Do you work full time 8am-5pm jobs 40hours a week? How do you support yourself economically, etc. etc?

The only way, I could see it where i lived is if i'm retired, and or working part time, 25hours or less a week and live less than 40 min from the mountain (my commute is 1:15 hours or 1:30 hours).

[pebu]

229 for an unlimited pass at my local. That is of course if 3 of your friends get passes with you. A crazy good deal. I work 45 hrs a week and only get to the hill on the weekends (45 min away from home). At those rates I can pay for a pass pretty easily. I think it calced out to about 10 or 15 times to pay for it. As for 60 days boardin... No way I could manage that.

[John E]

Around here it's a no-brainer if you plan to go to one area more than about 5 times. Winter Park is $85/day -vs- about $350 for a season pass. They also have a "4 pass" for $89.

However, the daily cost goes WAY up if you pay for lodging (& food) overnight.

Last Saturday, I went to Winter Park for the last day on my 4 pass. I couldn't find anyone else to go so I drove by myself. I filled my 1989 Acura Integra with gas & headed up. When I came home that evening, I filled it up again just to check - 4 gallons to go 150 miles. Total cost for the day = $10.

[Dave Pushee]

I "work" for Loon Mountain (NH) as a Ski Patrol Ambassador. It's a volunteer job (no pay), but it comes with a season pass, locker at the mountain, and a lift ticket voucher for each day that I work. The vouchers for friends and family are good for free weekday tickets, and $15 tickets weekends and holidays. I have to commit to 20 days in uniform for the mountain.

Work on any given day depends to some extent on how busy the mountain is. At worst, I'm assigned 2 shifts of an hour each at specific locations on the mountain, spend a few minutes in meetings at beginning and end of day, and have an assigned trail for sweep at the end of the day. The rest of the time, I'm cruising the mountain enjoying myself and keeping my eye out for customers in need of assistance or education.

My major cost is gas for the 100 mile trip (one way) from my house to Loon.

So far this season, I've got 22 days "working" for Loon, 3 days at Loon but not working, 2 days at Jay Peak (scored a half price deal), 2 days at Sunday River, 1 day at Bretton Woods, and 2 days at Bromley (led a Boy Scout Trip).

Friday-Sunday this week, I'm doing a trip with some buddies. We'll stay in a fellow Ambassador's condo at Loon, and take day trips to Sunday River, Jay Peak, and Cannon. I'm supplying more of the half price deals for Jay, and we may be able to work ticket discounts at Sunday River or Cannon.

[crucible]

I did the cost benefit analysis of being a Northeast skier/snowboarder in 1986, and moved out West to British Columbia.

Like Boris said, in Vancouver we have three ski-hills in the city limits, and Mt. Baker, Whistler-Blackcomb, Mt. Washington are within a two hour drive.

Local ski-hill seasons passes vary greatly in price, the best one this year was the Grouse Mountain family pass- $625.00/yr for a family of 3, with no blackout period.

I average 50 days per season at the local ski-hills, and another 10-14 days of riding at other resorts in the Province, since I do business with at least 8 of them.

So, 10 years after getting out of the snowboarding business, I've cut down my riding days from 100 plus to 60.... not too shabby.

[abakker]

i managed 50 days this year and it has been my best ever. i didn't start until december 21st, and am still going.

for next year, i think i can make it more economical, but for this year,

4 boards, 2 pairs of bindings, 2 pairs of boots. gear costs are phenominal, but i caught the hardbooting thing bad and am still trying to find stuff that really clicks with me.

as for resort costs, i have done half of my days in Utah where i can lodge for free with a friend, but still have to pay the lift tickets. the other half i have done at bluewood in dayton washington, which give me a $215 student season pass. although i have to drive roughly an hour each way to get there, as long as i bring 3 friends from college with me each time, the college activity fund will reimburse me for my gas. all in all a good system, but now that the season is ending, i need to sell some gear and get a job. i have $123.68 left in my checking for the rest of the year. :(

[willywhit]

i would guess it would be around 3000$ for seson.

(not counting any alcoholoic baverages)

stuffing yourself on your back yard jump=PRICELESS