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Time for a bump. The "reference stance" on the older (red/black/grey) one is 19" and those inserts are unmolested. Most bindings will let you go between 18" - 20" with these inserts. Cateks will increase this range, by flipping the mounting disk. So a wide range of typical stances are doable without using sketchy inserts. All for the price of a few Dakine Spike stomp pads (you get one free, no charge for installation and testing!). I don't mind keeping one of these, but I don't need three. With the stance I'm using (as wide as I can get on these, 22.5 - 23.5" on boards that allow) they are too twisty. Even my 178 Proton, which seemed like a steel I-beam at a 20" stance (no twisting possible), is a little lacking in torsional stiffness at 22". Pretty amazing what changes when you change stance. I was expecting an increase in stiffness (longitudinally), and maybe that's there, but the noteworthy thing for me is the decrease in torsional stiffness. I seem to have a tendency to twist the board (still working on setup) and I prefer the board to refuse.

I have a 163 Emmagator in the classifieds if you want to go that route.

Yup. And this happens ALL THE TIME. If you were to treat this any other way in an alternative "skiers' code" you'd have to distinguish "expectedly" from "unexpectedly". The same goes for driving; your point being what? Just like driving: you avoid a collision if you can. The question is whose pass gets pulled, who pays for the damage in case there was a collision, etc. So yes, it's irrelevant to your decision-making in the heat of the moment. Again, your point is what? Yes, if the Skiers' Code is not something you've thought about. Hence this thread and the others like it. This is why the Skiers' Code exists, I imagine. The problem is to get people to think about it. They won't do that if they've never seen it. Total straw man here. No one advocates "not looking where you're going". That would be like crossing the street in the crosswalk without looking. Even though the law says a pedestrian in the crosswalk has the right-of-way, even though there are signs to that effect RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, you still don't do it. Driving a car in a crowded parking lot, maybe. There the "rules" are a lot less well known. Think about how much less safe driving would be without "rules of the road". For example, I don't stop or even slow down for green lights. I trust the crossing traffic to stop at their red light, allowing me to continue. That works because all are aware of this rule, and everyone knows that everyone else follows it. What if you didn't believe that? Have you ever been at an intersection where the traffic lights didn't work? That's a great way to spend a half hour.

Unfortunately they make all the boards at the Iowa facility. Worth the drive, though. A lot of the boards that say "Kessler" on the World Cup podiums are actually made there. Little known fact.

Keith, sent you a PM. Thanks, but right now I'm looking for AM type boards around 178, like the Ax or Coiler but narrower. Those boards sound interesting and at some later point I'd definitely consider them, but now I need an AMish board.

Interested in silver if you still have them. PM sent.

Outstanding conditions continue. Nuff said. Lots of interest in alpine gear recently. Every single trip up the lift there are questions. Quite a few recognize the gear, others wonder if it's "old-school" and think that's cool (Burton FP or Oxygen Proton from 2001 so I can't really say it's not old school, but I don't think we have the same idea for what that means...). But for every question or comment there are three or four gaping looks. Kids especially, as they always have their eye out for things that look fast or sleek or just different.

Steeper runs are actually the worst, in my opinion. Even if they're less crowded, they selectively attract the most careless riders (the ones who rate their prowess by what they can "get down"), and straightliners have a much bigger speed advantage. On less steep pitches, the straightlining advantage is mostly negated by open coats, flailing arms, twisting boards, sliding tails, poor equipment maintenance, etc. I love it when people just make stuff up. But at many hills you'd be hard-pressed to find the responsibility code written anywhere. Even the rangers where I ride are fuzzy on it. Most riders/skiers I've talked to are unaware of it. That includes very experienced skiers. Good that you didn't get hit and that the kid didn't meet a big rock or snowmaking water pipe or something.

jatkinson -- I have a really hard time determining when a board is suitable for a different weight rider. I can say that I did have a Coiler AM that was built for a 250 lb rider (8.0 on the flex scale) and that was quite a bit stiffer than this. I couldn't turn it when I started unless the snow was soft. So I'd say this might work well to get started with hard boots, but you'd soon want something a little stiffer. Maybe other forum members can be more helpful here. icebiker -- are you going to get to Camelback one of these days? It's been consistently good. OK, second in line.

The sidewall of the Coiler is inscribed: 179 AM 23 06LK01 - 7.4

lonbordin, that's not where I got it, but that's it for sure. Includes "Caution" sticker. Thanks for locating that. I'll edit the post to reflect some details (180 - 200 lbs, makes sense as it's quite turny for me at 200 lbs), and ask $250 plus shipping. I'll add photos as well.

^^+1 Nice to meet and ride with everyone! Hope to get back soon -- nice place ya got there.

177 Metal Ax 21.5 waist, 10.5 - 12.5 m VSR, built for around 200 lbs. Very turny, damp, eats bumpy snow for breakfast, carves great on the 1" loose over ice we had earlier this season. Bought this last fall from another BOL member who bought it new. Very little use then and I've only put about 6 hours on it. No grinds, in fact the edges are still however they come from Donek. A topsheet chip or two, same as when I got it. $400 plus shipping. (I got a great price on this and will pass that on.) Sold. 179 Coiler AM 23 cm waist approx 12 - 13 m scr, built for around 200 lbs. I bought this a few seasons ago from another BOL member (EDIT: Spring 2013 after end of season). I used it for a few times last season until I got taken out. When I came back I used the 172 Proton and 185 Scott since the grooming was finally getting good. Similar characteristics to the Ax, great ice grip, turnier than you'd think given the scr. Turns as tight as a 10 m scr board without special effort. Condition: Base and edges are good. Some minor scratches in the base, not really deeper than a new structure. Some topsheet chips, including a major one near the tail. The previous owner patched it up with a generous amount of epoxy so no structural issue there. $275 plus shipping. (You may feel the topsheet chunk warrants a lower price. True, maybe, but the wider versions of these are not so easy to find. I looked for some time -- that's what I paid for it and would like to get that back.) EDIT: price $250 plus shipping, weight range 180 - 200. I bought these boards to 1) determine if I can use a wider alpine board for freeriding instead of a soft-boot setup and 2) to determine a width that works. The answer to 1) is a resounding "yes" -- the Coiler proved that. However, I found that the wider boards seem to punish my knee more, either due to the lower angles or the leverage. This is the opposite of what many report so I was surprised. Anyway, I want one of these boards in 20 cm width (that seems to work best for me). Would definitely consider trades. Photos:

I can't see your video for some reason, but I have a similar problem with my UPZs and certain TD3 toe bails. I've found that TD1 toe bails have a longer distance from bail to toe ledge so sit further from the boot and give some clearance on the side. The toe bails on my TD3 Sidewinders also fit, just barely. Longer versions don't work (because the lug sits back farther, where the boot is wider) and the newer shorter ones don't work either (because the bend is more, causing the lug to stand more upright). You may want to offer to trade with the poster who can't get his TD1s to fit M24 boots. That would likely solve both your problems.

PM sent.

Interested in the RT. PM sent.

If you remove the plate you can take a photo of the model name and spec listing and post it here. That would help answer inevitable questions, like: Is it a FreeCarve, Incline, Saber, Transition, Flux, Razor...? What is the sidecut? VSR or fixed? Metal, carbon, or traditional glass construction? Length? Waist? Etc.

For the RC-10, agree 100%. Pretty amazing. Not true for older models, though.

A 168 AM VSR as a plate on top of it?

From the Carvers' Almanac (www.alpinecarving.com): " '00 was the last season that you could buy a Sims Burner in the US, but it was continued for a few years later in Japan, then the model was manufactured under the Hasco brand until '03." Sent you a PM.

It's just the stance. All items accounted for... second board kit, wunder bar.....

Really good conditions yesterday. My favorite runs were remarkably empty, and the Friday "yee-haw" wack factor was way down. Two reasons I can think of: 1) low temperature and forecasts of negative one billion freeze factor scared the less committed away 2) apparently an accident getting into the lot caused a huge backup. Faster than it has been, super firm and grip that never ends. No rocks.

Buy the shell that fits (1 finger space behind heel) and then worry about liners. Have a look at Beckmann AG's very detailed discussion of getting boots to fit. http://beckmannag.com/alpine-skiing/boot-selection I used to have M30 boots as well. Went to M29 and am now in M28. Solved a lot of problems.

I've been using UPZ for several seasons now. Started with Deeluxe/Raichle in several sizes (M30,29,28) and shapes (SB and AF). I have a few comments on sole length and stiffness. SOLE LENGTH Here are some photos to illustrate the UPZ short sole length. I believe this feature is overrated. Here is a line-up of a Deeluxe Indy, UPZ RC10 and for comparison, a Dalbello CRX Freeride ski boot, all in size M28 (*). The BTS on the Indy protrudes beyond the rear of the other two boots (that's the 13" mark). If you remove the Indy you see that the UPZ and CRX have about the same front-to-back measurement. In other words, you could run these two boots at the same angles in order to avoid any boot drag up to a 90 degree edge angle. What about edge angles more like 75 degrees? The UPZ short sole does not help much here: You get about the same clearance from the Deeluxe. The UPZ's short sole only helps with substantially lower edge angles. And that's in firm conditions; if you sink in at all, even this goes away. (*) UPZ shell sizing is in 12-14 mm increments, not 10 mm like Deeluxe and most ski boots (I think). There are _three_ "UPZ sizes" per shell. Therefore "Mondo sizing" -- "round your properly supported foot's length in cm down to the whole cm" -- can't work very well for UPZ. The shell here is the 312 mm and is for UPZ sizes 8.5, 9, and 9.5. The shell has about the same interior length as the Deeluxe Indy M28 and the Dalbello pictured. STIFFNESS The UPZ RC10s I have been using since the end of last season are a lot less stiff than the RTRs (older UPZ model) I had. So much so that I have no need to unlock the cuff to put on or take off the boots. Like slippers. Other than convenience, I'm indifferent to this. The new plastic is not much affected by temperature; the RTRs stiffened up a lot in 0 degree F conditions. I had a few epic struggles getting them off. The RTRs were noticeably stiffer than the Deeluxe Indy pictured w/blue BTS. The RC10s may be comparable to the Indys here. It's been a long time so hard to say for sure. The Flo liners contribute to the UPZ stiffness. If you use plain Intuition foam liners, you'll lose a lot. Don Pablo, try the Flos or the newer Intuition liners with stiffer tongue and no foam underfoot (Race, I think). The next step would be to try some RTRs (I think the Virus ones are RTRs or maybe RSVs).

The newer Proton is $150 plus shipping, bindings pictured not included. Do you ever get to Camelback? If so you're welcome to meet me and give it a try.