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snowburn

Plate vs. No Plate?

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Just now, snowburn said:

Riding on chopped up groomers for half a day does it make sense to invest in a plate system? My board has the UPM mounts. Does anyone have experience with the Donek AF plate https://www.donek.com/product/af-plate/ or preference to other systems? 

Yes, I do. I broke the hardware on the first half day of riding it. I'd stick to a plate manufacturer like Apex, Vist, Allflex. The hardware from the Bomber BP looks strong but doesn't allow the board to flex like the Apex Race V2 and it doesn't allow correct placement of the hardware under the correct part of the feet like the Apex Race V2 does and the carbon upper plate felt too rigid to me. But That's expected as it is the difference from a single guy in a shed/workshop and a company enlisted to research on behalf of the Canadian snowboard team to win gold. The new Apex X-Plate is nice, also, I had one. I think there is a guy on the forum who loves his X-Plate.

For UPM- I'd get an X-Plate or used Race V2.

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Where this will be your first season in hard boots I would highly recommend putting off the plate until at least a year from now. A plate is totally optional. You should get used to the new set up before adding something so dramatically different.  That said, I had a great experience with the Donek AF plate. I like the Apex X plate more but it’s a lot more money. 

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My personal experience opposes Jack's in this regard- plates for beginners. But it would only hold if you already are a good softboot rider who can at least understand how to carve.

From what I've seen first hand from people who have borrowed my gear with no hardboot experience and also my own personal experience, a plate is great no matter the level (provided you have a snowboarding background and understand carving). 

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1 hour ago, Jack M said:

I like the Apex X plate more but it’s a lot more money. 

Yeah the price is up there for sure. It might prevent me from taking the plunge on that for now. Besides like you said I was thinking I would try it without so I could have a baseline for comparison.

54 minutes ago, daveo said:

(provided you have a snowboarding background and understand carving). 

Definitely do. 

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9 hours ago, snowburn said:

Definitely do. 

Get a plate mate, you won't regret it.

Second hand Apex Race V2, T1, maybe a Vist or @slapos could hook you up with an FG Vist (sliding) style plate.

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hi snowburn

i can help you with FG type of plate.

Mind you I am not the dealer, but I can help organize.

have a look here :

http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/47058-fg-plate-for-sale-x2/?tab=comments#comment-479206

plate works the same as vist 07 or vist 14, just the sliding mechanism is much better and doesnt get fatigue damage over time as vist does in the sliding sockets, which possibly can lead to insert rip.

few people bought it - you can have a chat with them if they are happy:

@charliekarr and @bucky

wanna share you experience?

thanks

Lukasz

 

here is mounting instructions to shed a bit more light on the plate.

forgot to mention it is available in colors now too:

54432353_2330643873867377_23582233308440

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Just gonna put it out there that after I broke the hardware on that Donek, I rode the board naked and sprained my ankle because the run was so chopped up and I didn't feel it with the plate. The Donek is a clone of the Apex design, obviously not at the same level. I bought an Apex myself and never looked back... Refuse to ride without a plate now. 

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15 hours ago, snowburn said:

Yeah the price is up there for sure. It might prevent me from taking the plunge on that for now. Besides like you said I was thinking I would try it without so I could have a baseline for comparison.

I think that would be wise.  The change from softboots to hardboots is already a big one, compounded by the change in binding angles.  Why add to that right away?

Sure, the singular act of carving a snowboard on easy terrain (where one should start) in hardboots is similar to doing it in softboots - you may actually find it easier.  However skidding and maneuvering and generally getting around in hardboots is harder, awkward, and less intuitive at first because most people new to hardboots are fighting the equipment and the stance during those moments.  Adding a plate makes it even harder to skid and maneuver, so it will make the whole setup feel that much more foreign and awkward.

 

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I remember my mate (video below) remarked at how much the plate had eliminated bumps to the extent that it allowed him to carve in conditions that he wouldn't even think is possible...

I took 1 video that day and it's below, just a few seconds. This is him during his 4th hour on hardboots. Oxess SXR182 + Vistflex plate. Sure you can spot a lot of flaws, but after just 4 hours... that's pretty damn solid.

I used to think the same as @Jack M, until I had first hand feedback from riders on plates after just a few hours. That changed my entire perspective.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, daveo said:

I remember my mate (video below) remarked at how much the plate had eliminated bumps to the extent that it allowed him to carve in conditions that he wouldn't even think is possible...

I took 1 video that day and it's below, just a few seconds. This is him during his 4th hour on hardboots. Oxess SXR182 + Vistflex plate. Sure you can spot a lot of flaws, but after just 4 hours... that's pretty damn solid.

I used to think the same as @Jack M, until I had first hand feedback from riders on plates after just a few hours. That changed my entire perspective.

 

Not bad! 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jack M said:

The change from softboots to hardboots is already a big one, compounded by the change in binding angles. 

I always rode steep angles. And with either 3 strap bindings or K2 clickers which is essentially a hard boot. There pretty stiff and I just love them. I can carve decent with them right now. My riding style has always been top to bottom as fast as I could through all conditions including deep powder. That being said I think my transition should go fairly quick. Now I would like to lay it down!

Edited by snowburn
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Just now, snowburn said:

@slapos

How does the FG plate differ from apex X plate? I'm most interested in a plate to absorb the choppy groomers.

Edited by snowburn

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both plates will filter out chop, however apex will filter it out more. 

fg is semi isolation plate like vist or allflex while apex is full isolation plate. 

full ISO plate can also strip you from the board feedback so much that you actually don't know what's going on under your edge. some people like and some people don't. 

not sure how much hardboot exp you have under belt, but I think that in general plates should be used only if you are experienced rider, that can easily balance front/rear plus up and down. 

plate in itself will not improve your riding (may even hinder it) if the technique is not top notch. 

as my buddy always says, your equipment hinders your riding least 😉

my reccomendation, if you are about to buy first plate, go for FG as it is much easier to handle then apex, at least IMHO. 

maybe you can try something before buying which could help you save some bucks.

 

Edited by slapos
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No plate. Ride a different board (all-mountain) in pm chop and play the terrain features. 

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The best use of a plate is in " adverse " conditions no matter what your experience level is.  Chop or ice it allows you to continue riding when most  others would pack it in and go home. You buy a lift ticket and most days you would prefer to ride for more than a few hours at a time .A plate will allow you to do that. Sharp edges and a plate allow me to ride ice coast conditions with confidence.  

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It sounds like you are a prime candidate for hardboots regardless.  I expect it will be a revelation for you, please report back.

If you must have a plate I would recommend either the Donek AF or Apex X over any Vist gen-1 type plates.  The former allow the board to flex freely beneath them.  The latter sit right on the board and act as a flex modifier.  They generally make the board run longer than the board would bare.  The Apex allows a bit more torsional flex than the Donek, so a bit more pedaling which helps it feel more natural.  Also it's the lowest to the board, so it disappears once you get used to it.  However the Donek being torsionally stiffer has slightly more ultimate edge hold.

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On 6/7/2019 at 10:03 AM, daveo said:

Yes, I do. I broke the hardware on the first half day of riding it.

Daveo, what kind of warranty came with donek plate? Did they refund you?

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On 6/7/2019 at 11:56 AM, snowburn said:

Riding on chopped up groomers for half a day does it make sense to invest in a plate system?

Probably not. To resolve that particular problem, you can invest time toward making better use of the equipment you already have.

However, if you want a plate, buy a plate. Then budget for the next plate that you hope will resolve the issues not adequately addressed by the plate you have.

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1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said:

Probably not. To resolve that particular problem, you can invest time toward making better use of the equipment you already have.

However, if you want a plate, buy a plate. Then budget for the next plate that you hope will resolve the issues not adequately addressed by the plate you have.

Or even better just never try one. 

2 hours ago, snowburn said:

Daveo, what kind of warranty came with donek plate? Did they refund you?

It wasn't mine, I borrowed it from my friend in Japan, which made it even worse. I made it up to him the following year, but still after I realised I luckily wasn't hurt from the catastrophic failure of the Donek hardware, it set in that I had just broken one of my best friend's plates =/ terrible feeling. 

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2 hours ago, snowburn said:

Daveo, what kind of warranty came with donek plate? Did they refund you?

Just remember there is no refund on broken legs.

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22 minutes ago, daveo said:

Just remember there is no refund on broken legs.

I've never broken a bone and don't plan on it either. Knock on wood

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Pour le freecarving une plate est inutile acheté une bonne planche 😉

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On 6/8/2019 at 9:36 PM, daveo said:

Just remember there is no refund on broken legs.

I'm totally confused by this. Do you mean that I can't seek a refund if the leg-breaking is not to my satisfaction? Or if the leg in question fails to stay broken? Or are you suggesting I cannot petition for money back from my Holy and Omnipotent Creator if the leg is broken in the first place? This, of course, is ridiculous, because an Omnipotent Creator would never produce an imperfect leg in the first place, making it clear that the break is my responsibility. Snowboarding is hard...

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