Bomber RAB

[Michelle]

Hi everyone

Apologizing already to anyone who ordered a BTS Kit over the weekend. It won't be available until end of December 2005, and everyone who ordered will be contacted. Didn't think anyone would notice just over the weekend, should have known better with you guys :p

We are making them now, and will have them out ASAP. You can place a preorder, but if you are combining it with other items please let us know if you want them shipped together or if you want the other items first.

Thanks for your patience!

[Gecko]

would the RAB be worth doing on my SB413's or would it just allow too much flex? I'm just wondering if I should ask Mrs Claus for a set or if they would be overkill.

[fin]

Gecko,

The stock Raichle RAB will fit right into your 413 no problem. And I do believe they will add some performance to even that boot. Yes, it is a softer flexing boot but the RAB and even our upcoming BTS will allow you to "tune" the feel on any boot.

[Mike T]

Like I wasn't going to order them as soon as it went up on the store, even knowing they'd be a month or more in coming.

I am just as excited to get these puppies as I am to get my Donek FC1 175

[D-Sub]

Fin that drawing looks SUH_WEET!

Im testing out some HEad boots this season. you really really realyl should make this for Head! Dunno how much modification it would require

arnauds ACS system looks good, too, but you have the machinery to refine the product.

Im sure you have it in mind, and i Know your plate is full

[Pat Donnelly]

Wouldn't this set-up offer a bit more resistance than the shell of the boot itself? Weighing in at 200 lbs., my thinking is the soft (yellow) spring would still be more consistent as well as adjustable than "walk mode" - Fin?

[fin]

D-Sub,

Hear you on the Heads but we want to see how it goes with this BTS and then MAYBE later expand to other boots.

Pat,

Agree, the "walk" or "powder" mode is currently pretty darn good to make a boot soft. But you do get a very un-even flexing boot in my opinion. In that the boot flexes forward with no resistance then hits the ends of its travel and stop suddenly, not very linear. The BTS with the yellow (soft) springs would most likely give you a similar soft flexing boot but with a linear and smooth transition resistance on both heel and toe side.

And of course (as I sound like a broken record) you can tune it from there. Walk mode is not tunable but springs and their resistance are.

[Kirk]

I'm glad that Pat brought that up, because I was wondering about the comparison of "powder mode" (been doing that for the last two seasons - won't ever go back to a locked boot ) and something like the yellow (soft) spring for a 155 pounder. Based on this, I'll probably give the BTS system a shot. Thanks!

[D-Sub]

D-Sub,

Hear you on the Heads but we want to see how it goes with this BTS and then MAYBE later expand to other boots.

figured that was the case. you rock either way. will try my heads this season and might just go back to suzukas so I can rock the BTS!

:)

[kjl]

So... is the idea that if I got a BTS I'd want the stiffest possible pair of hardboots available, but softest tongue, so that the flex was as much as possible solely dictated by the spring?

How stiff is the SB423 in the grand scheme of hard boots?

[Mike T]

So... is the idea that if I got a BTS I'd want the stiffest possible pair of hardboots available, but softest tongue, so that the flex was as much as possible solely dictated by the spring?

How stiff is the SB423 in the grand scheme of hard boots?

I've preordered both blue and yellow springs to try out with my Suzukas. I wonder if I'll be slitting the tongues to soften them once I have the BTS?

Ken, the SB423 is pretty darn soft in the grand scheme of things.

[Daneille]

I am confused about the short and long springs. Is one boot short and the other long or what?

Daneille

[kjl]

The long spring goes under compression when the ankle is flexed (shin pushed forward), and the short spring goes under compression when the ankle is extended.

Yeah, I am thinking of getting the BTS, as the locked position on the back foot is too stiff and the walk position is too soft (esp. on hot days), but I don't know which springs to get, or even if the BTS will be useful or totally wasted and overkill on the softie hardboots I have. I am a light rider at 135 lbs, so I suppose I should get the softest springs available, but if the shell is already deforming all over the place, maybe I need a stiffer spring to compensate?

[astrokel]

Is there some way of setting up an exchange system for swapping springs (Fin?)? Perhaps setting aside a few springs that are lightly used that people could swap out for a small fee. It would be great and would ease a lot of people's fears about getting the right spring.

One thing to point out though is that once one gets a spring it is possible to make it stiffer by preloading it. This helps only to a point but due to the long travel of the BTS it has an adjustment ability that is WAY more than the original RAB.

[Daneille]

So, to get extra springs to try out that means 2 shorts and 2 longs?

Daneille

[fin]

kjl: That is a great observation and I believe in that as well. If you now run the BTS you should run the softest tongue possible. This will now rely more on the BTS to give you your forward resistance.

Also, I would watch out for the "trap" that if you have a very soft model boot and want it really stiff, the stiff springs on the BTS might not work. As you try to flex the boot forward against the super stiff springs the shell of that super soft boot might just collapse on itself instead of compress the springs. Of course, this would not be any worse then it is now with the stock lock-out device. We have done some test on the medium stiff boots (which is what I would consider the SB423, by the way) and they have worked fine with the BTS so I still believe it will be a benefit to all models of Raichle/Deeluxe boots.

astrokel: I hear you on this. We thought about it but it became a logistics nightmare if we had so many "test" springs out and no springs to actually include with the product. Believe it or not the springs are the most expensive part of the system as they are rectangular wire formed (die springs) and not just your run of the mill round wire spring. We just don't have that many extra.

We do hope that through feed-back from everyone here we can all get a better idea of what springs are working best for what riders and set ups.

Also, we can use this forum to exchange springs (classifieds) just as some people now do with TD cant disks.

Daneille: The entire system comes with two long and two short springs. However, you may just want to switch the longs only so that would only be a set of two springs (long). Go here http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/BTS_springs.cfm for more information on these.

[kjl]

Thanks for the responses, Fin.

I have 2 final (I hope) questions:

The stock tongues that came with my 423's are the soft ones, right?

Would it be safe to say that the preload-adjusting range on the BTS is wide enough to get any reasonably desired stiffness from the softest (yellow) springs for a light 135 lb. rider?

Thanks again,

[Mike T]

Stock 423 tongues are "soft" but not "super soft" like the ones on a 413. One can stiffen 423's by swapping them out for "medium" or "hard" tongues that came with 225/325's. (Both boots came with two sets on tongues, one "medium" and one "hard".

Fin - given your recommendation of "softest tongue possible" - do you recommend any mods to AF600/AF700/Suzuka/Indy? The tongues on my Suzukas seem to be just as stiff as the "hard" 225/325 tongues. Are there softer AF tongues available anywhere?

[fin]

kjl,

On the tongues...what Mike T said. He nailed it.

Soft springs and pre-load: If I understand your question, no, you cannot just pre-load the yellow springs so much as to "force" them to act like Hards. First of all you are giving up travel as you compress the spring and second, you are over stessing the spring and it will take a set and become weeker (to a point). So after so much preload, if it is not what you want, you would need to bump up the spring hardness.

Mike T: well, it is really hard to compare AF tongues to SB series tongues as they are very different in use. AF is a side wrap design and the SB is a front connect design. But I can tell you this, those tongues in your Suzukas are the softest tongue availbel for the AF series boots. So if you want the softest for those, you already have them.

[Mike T]

Mike T: well, it is really hard to compare AF tongues to SB series tongues as they are very different in use. AF is a side wrap design and the SB is a front connect design. But I can tell you this, those tongues in your Suzukas are the softest tongue availbel for the AF series boots. So if you want the softest for those, you already have them.

Thanks Fin! I'll certainly wait for my BTS to arrive and try it out before I worry about softening my tongues by shaving or slitting.

[Jon Dahl]

softening my tongues by shaving or slitting.

Does that work in the morning, too??

[freecarver]

Here's the Europian suggestion of the RAB system with photos.

Click here

Fin might have a look of this maybe something realy good is going to turn out.

[kjl]

Thanks Fin. I put the order in yesterday.

I wasn't really asking if I could pre-load the soft springs into behaving like hard springs; I mostly just don't have any way to quantify how stiff the springs will feel. I was trying to ask, "if I preloaded the soft yellow springs as much as recommended, would they be stiff enough for the vast majority of 135 lb. riders?"

But that's a totally vague question anyways, and the range of what people want is huge, so nevermind ;)

[Mark.Andersen]

Hey Fin,

Can't wait until the BTS ship out! Can you tell me what the threading on the rod is? I'm thinking of ordering some acorn nuts from McMaster-Carr to finish off the top of the rod.

[fin]

The threaded rod is an M8-1.25 (Metric 8).

You would be hard pressed to come even close to hitting the end of that rod, but the final version does have a large radius on it. Also, if it was a concern I would just put one of those plastic/rubber caps you can get at the hardware store for cair legs or dowel ends.