Old Timer wants to carve again

[Glide]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum. I was attracted to the carving specific content and hope some of you might offer some advise. In the early 1990's I tried snowboarding for the first time. It was at Winter Park CO and I called ahead to take a half day lesson. There was a school / rental shop that was all hard boots and carving boards. I had so much fun, I took three more lessons that week. At the end of the week I bought the rental equipment and made about 30 trips to Winter Park that year. (I lived in Boulder at the time) The first two years were the best snow boarding of my life. I wish I knew all the technical jargon as well as all of you. That first and, very well use, board was an asymmetrical design. It may have been a Kessler. The boots looked like ski boots, but were snowboard specific. The bindings were fixed at the heel and locked into place at the toe, there was definitely a cant to the bindings as well, the rear foot canted in and the front foot canted back making it easier to keep your knees close. I don't know the angle of my feet, but it was definitely a racing stance, not the classic cowboy stance some soft boot riders use. I do ride goofy so my right foot was in front and had less of an angle than my rear foot.

When I moved back east this equipment was very worn out. I quickly found out that carving was more popular in the west than the east. When the equipment was no longer safe to use I discarded it but had a lot of trouble finding replacement equipment. Eventually a so-called snowboard shop talked me into "very stiff" soft boots and a mountain board. I tried for an entire season to like that equipment but I never really did. I eventually gave it away. I found some hard boots and a used carving board somewhere. I don't remember what the equipment was, but the board was definitely a carver. It was much stiffer (and heaver) than my original asymmetric board but it could hold an edge amazingly and was fun to ride in groomed conditions only. I eventually stopped riding to raise a family and focus on my career.

So, now I'm 60 years old and have decided I want to take up carving again. I am 5'11, 200 pounds and reasonably fit and active for my age. I live in Connecticut but have a family cabin not far from Sugarbush Vermont. I would like to buy some quality equipment, I think the boots are the toughest part and I'm willing to pay for quality. As far as the board goes, I probably don't need a giant slalom racer but I do want a carving board. I don't care about the half pipe, I don't care about tricks, there's not much powder in the east that's worth riding I just want a friendly to ride carving board. It seems to me that just like decades ago finding knowledgeable people in the niche of carving is difficult.

If some of you have opinions on what equipment I should be considering I would love to hear it. Some thing else that would be most helpful is the location of an equipment shop somewhere in the east that is knowledgeable about snowboard carving equipment. I would also be interested in knowledgeable carving specific instructors in the east to get me going in the right direction again.

Any help is appreciated. Respectfully,

Bill

 

[SunSurfer]

Welcome Bill! Enormous progress in boots, bindings and boards since you last rode.

There are a number of threads started relatively recently by people coming into carving seeking similar advice. Scroll back through the threads and learn to use the Search function.

Lots of carvers here in their 60s, so your goal is entirely achievable. As we get older, flexibility tends to get less, so include stretching in your physical conditioning as well as core/abdominal muscle strength, and quads strengthening, and cardio. Learning new physical skills is hard work.

If you have any lower back flexibility problems consider the Intec stepin binding system. This has implications for both your boot and binding choices.

Carving stances have evolved since the stance you remember. Now riders keep their knees separated, and stances have got longer. The understanding around desirable canting (lateral binding tilt) and lift (fore/aft binding tilt) has changed as well.

Lots to think about.

Have fun!

PS: have just linked you into a Personal Message. Contains links to YouTube playlists of carving snowboard resources.

You were probably on a Kemper board back in the day!

Edited November 4, 2023 by SunSurfer

[CB Utah]

Hey Bill,

THIS is the place for you.  So many people to learn from.  I’m from Colorado too and mountain biked, skied and snowboarded Winter Park in that era.  Lots of great articles and discussions here.  I quit for 30 years and jumped right back in.  You’ll do awesome.  

[dropthebody]

Hey Bill welcome back. I'm almost 60 and still riding and carving. I started riding in 1990. I started Soft-Boot Carving with a Winterstick Severe Terrain late 90's. Gradually my angles advanced. Now I am riding a Arbor A-Frame with Salomon Caliber Bindings and Malamute Soft boots. Stiff set up and my friends look at me like I'm crazy because I'm running a 36-39° degree front and 33-36° rear. My Hardboot set up I'm running a Coiler Nirvana with TD3 Step-in bindings and RPZ 10 boots. 50° on the front and 46° on the rear. For us old guys, step-in bindings are recommended. I have a Swoard Extreme Carver 175 if interested.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

“You want old guys? We got old guys”

[philw]

I started in 1989 in Finland, but there too it was all hard gear at that point. I figured I'd switch to soft as soon as I got my arse kicked by people on those... but they all went to the park and so I stuck with what works for me.

16 hours ago, Glide said:

Kessler

Possibly more likely a Kemper? Those were fairly popular at the time but for me at least Kessler came a bit later and were a bit more race oriented than what people were riding at resorts.

You may have actually got your timing right: carving is becoming fashionable again.

[nextcarve]

10 hours ago, dropthebody said:

My Hardboot set up I'm running a Coiler Nirvana with TD3 Step-in bindings and RPZ 10 boots.

Just to prevent confusion eventually caused by the typo; the boots are called UPZ RC10, where the currently available model is called UPZ RC12.

[dropthebody]

10 hours ago, nextcarve said:

Just to prevent confusion eventually caused by the typo; the boots are called UPZ RC10, where the currently available model is called UPZ RC12.

Thank you for proofreading my mistake.

[SunSurfer]

Make sure you find the Review section of the Forum. Then read up on the various options.

The common hard snowboard boot brands used in North America are Deeluxe, UPZ, and Mountain Slope. Deeluxe and UPZ boots can be fitted with stepin Intec type heels.

Common bindings are from F2 and Bomber and both these come in Intec variants. SnowPro and Carve Company are used by some riders.

For a first board you could buy new, but you may be better off spending less on a second hand board from the For Sale section and riding that until you develop more skill and a sense of the features you really want. Many of us sad addicts have extensive quivers of carving boards!

Two basic ways of putting a board on edge. A continuum of stances and techniques amongst riders here.

Using the heels and toes - stance angles tend to be more across the board and board widths wider to prevent boots from gouging the snow at high angles. Required width depends on the length of your feet.

Using the sides of your feet, more like ski carving technique - stance angles tend to be higher, 55 degrees and up. Less twisting of the riders core required so less flexibility needed. Board can be narrower without boot out occurring.

Board sidecut radius for someone starting out learning to carve again on Green and Blue slopes I would recommend average sidecuts between 10 - 14 metres. If the slopes you'll initially ride are narrower or steeper maybe even go as low as 8 metres for tighter turns at all edge angles.

Suitable board models will depend on your stance/riding style preference. If you buy second hand look for something less than 8-10 years old, primarily because recent construction and designs are just so good.

Finding good instruction is generally difficult unless you just happen to be in the right place. I'm primarily taught by YouTube, and by some very generous Forum members at various sessions and gatherings over the years. Montucky Clear Cut is a great event but you will want to feel comfortable getting around steepish slopes on a carving setup (not necessarily carving steepish slopes) before you go because Turner Mountain is a field with relatively steep slopes. A newbie might .

 

 

[Glide]

Thank you all for your help. I genuinely appreciate all the comments. I think the first thing I will do is seek out a carving instructor somewhere in the Northeast. A half day lesson will be like a half season jumpstart for me. I would also like to find an equipment shop somewhere in the Northeast. I like the idea of buying a used board to start with (get a new one when I really know what I want) but think new boots and bindings are appropriate. Would anyone have thoughts on where to find instruction and equipment in the Northeast USA?

Respectfully,

Bill

[Glide]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, dropthebody said:

I have a Swoard Extreme Carver 175 if interested.

Is it listed in the used equipment on this forum?

[Glide]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:10 AM, SunSurfer said:

Using the sides of your feet, more like ski carving technique - stance angles tend to be higher, 55 degrees and up. Less twisting of the riders core required so less flexibility needed. Board can be narrower without boot out occurring.

Board sidecut radius for someone starting out learning to carve again on Green and Blue slopes I would recommend average sidecuts between 10 - 14 metres. If the slopes you'll initially ride are narrower or steeper maybe even go as low as 8 metres for tighter turns at all edge angles.

Suitable board models will depend on your stance/riding style preference. If you buy second hand look for something less than 8-10 years old, primarily because recent construction and designs are just so good.

Sunsurfer, thanks for all the info. My last board was definitely a narrow carving board. So, I’m sure I will have a higher angle stance.

[dhamann]

i am unaware of alpine equipment available in retail stores in north america, nevermind new england. it's all on the web. as suggested, look through forums to find what might work best for you with regards to boot/bindings. UPZ site is under maintenance, but maybe this will help:

mondo = cm (naked feet, standing, trace to paper. if you measure in morning first thing, this measurement will be smaller, evening larger. i say pick larger, but some may say average to find the mean sample of at least ten days of measuring. i'm kidding, kind of.)

UPZ - wider feet, great heel hold. step in or bails. i have narrow feet and happy with UPZ so some personal preferences too.

deeluxe - narrower feet (Track 325 softer or 425 stiffer)/wider feet (track 700), HIGHLY recommend BTS for lean mechanism. select spring stiffness for preference. step in or bails.

either boot will work and/or can be fitted to accommodate uniqueness to the rider. there are many threads about this! just have to look around here on the forums and use the search bar in top right. i think search bar only searches the forum of the page your currently on so go to home page for search. used, found here. likely need new liner (+200) if purchasing used. new at donek or yyzcanuck

F2 bindings have step in or bails. flex and support start at RS model and go up to a step in with the Titanflex and then the titan race. titan race is most popular. these allow for some forgiveness when riding with some lateral movement between boot/bails, although clamped tight on boot. TD3 standards with the bail provide zero movement, found at bomber. TD3 sidewinders with bails provide some lateral movement.

i thought there was an alpine instructor at attitash or north conway area in nh. maybe once upon a time. unsure if this is still an option. there was an alpine snowboarder at mt sunapee a few years ago i took a few lift rides with. he was instructing kind of part time, but on call as needed. i do get to sunapee a few times a year myself, so if a mountain person isn't available and you wanted to make the drive from sugarbush lmk. there may be someone at okemo or mt snow area to give some pointers too. good luck and welcome back.

[Glide]

All,

Since you took the time to help me I wanted to provide an update. I ended up ordering my equipment from Donek. Sean was a very helpful resource for someone getting back into it. 
 

I ended up w a 175cm Voyager board with a 20cm waist and 11.5 sidecut, F2 bindings and 26 mono Deeluxe boots. Pictured below 
 

 

The thought was this equipment would be good to ease back into it. I am still settling in on my stance. Right now I have 58 degrees on my front foot with toe lift and some cant. ( I ride goofy) Also have 51 degrees on my back foot with heal lift and some cant. I should have sprung for the step in bindings recommend by SunSurfer. But this set up will be fine for now.

Have been out a few times and truly enjoying the equipment. So much better than what I had 30+ years ago. Definitely connecting my turns and carving, but not really laying it over yet. Sometimes get some chatter on my heal side, think I need move a bit more forward on my heal turns. 

Probably be good to watch some more educational videos if anyone wants to recommend some. 
 

Thanks everyone, enjoy the turns!

Bill
 

 

[pow4ever]

equipments agnostic and from one of our own

http://alpinesnowboarder.com/tech-articles/

Ride with other is one the best path forward.  post up in the ride board and welcome back!

[SunSurfer]

@Glide You might find this thread helpful if you are trying to set your board on edge with lateral pressure rather than toe/heel pressure. I describe how I came to make progress in my turns and others chime in. My technique develops as the thread progresses.

 

[Odd Job]

@Glide heelside chop into the slope (downhill edge, like you're going to catch an edge and slam the back of your head). Then you'll have a platform to balance on to clip in. Should take you less than 5 seconds or so after a while (rivaling a less agile person's step-in speed).

[Señor Chuggs]

@Odd Job do you have a trick to keep snow from packing to your boot soles?  I also have had difficulty recently getting into my bindings with the toe clip.  I broke a binding once trying to force it closed, now I know if my bindings suddenly don't fit its probably because of packed snow in the connection. But picking the snow out of my soled always puts me beyond the 5 sec mark.

[Odd Job]

Yeah. with your toe bail open, use the edge of it to scrape snow off. And/or the toe block. I forgot which one I use. I use SG bindings.

Heelside chop

Kick/scrape

Clip in

I don't think I've ever picked the sole manually. 

Keyword: less than "5 seconds or so". so maybe 7 seconds, 8 seconds, 5 seconds, 4 seconds. Depends on how good I aim it in and how fast I spin one footed from a glide off the chair into a heelside chop and do everything else.

I've seen the racer monkeys just do all of that without the heel chop, but on the move right off the lift to their run. That's sort of a hard no for me.

[Glide]

19 hours ago, pow4ever said:

equipments agnostic and from one of our own

http://alpinesnowboarder.com/tech-articles/

Ride with other is one the best path forward.  post up in the ride board and welcome back!

Where do you do in person coaching? 

[Odd Job]

I just got on hardboots today after several weeks of softbooting.

I'm generally getting in from bending over within 5 seconds or less. That includes the snow scrape. I see no reason to use step-ins other than to clip in on the move as fast as possible. Or mobility issues.

Edited January 30 by Odd Job

[Pat Donnelly]

Quote

20 hours ago, Señor Chuggs said:

@Odd Job do you have a trick to keep snow from packing to your boot soles?  I also have had difficulty recently getting into my bindings with the toe clip.  I broke a binding once trying to force it closed, now I know if my bindings suddenly don't fit its probably because of packed snow in the connection. But picking the snow out of my soled always puts me beyond the 5 sec mark.

 

Try adding a piece of duct tape to the bottom of your heel to keep snow from packing while on the snow.   

[AcousticBoarder]

3 hours ago, Pat Donnelly said:

Try adding a piece of duct tape to the bottom of your heel to keep snow from packing while on the snow.   

I use a stomp pad with lots of spikes for this very reason. I believe it is crab grab brand, seems to hold up well to the abuse

[martock_carver]

Hi Bill,

I have a pair of F2 bindings that I bought from this very site that I can offer you (just a smidge too big for my boots). Haven't listed them yet but feel free to send me a message!

Glad to see you getting back into it! My goal is to keep on railing turns well into retirement so reading your story is great motivation!