Softboot carvers: mainstream vs custom

[lordmetroland]

9 hours ago, NateW said:

And like someone said earlier, it's also weird that the industry steers people toward such short boards.

Have you noticed that a 6 ounce yogurt is now 5? Or a pound of coffee is now 12 ounces? The prices haven’t changed…

[Neil Gendzwill]

10 hours ago, NateW said:

+1 for larger sidecut radius. I'd recommend a custom board to anyone who wants to carve a lot, just for that reason alone. 

It boggles my mind that the industry thinks nobody would be happy with larger than 10m. Hopefully the 12m Commissioner gets people thinking. But it's still dumb that you can only get 12m on the largest (165).  "Oh hi, you want to rail fast carves? We've got the board for you... oh wait, you're 5'6" sorry we just got slow boards for you."

The ideal SCR isn't a function of rider height, it should be chosen based on how fast someone tends to ride. If I was in change, the whole Commissioner line would be 12m, maybe 13m.  

And like someone said earlier, it's also weird that the industry steers people toward such short boards.

What’s rider height got to do with it? The recommended weight range for the 165 is 150-220+ so most adult males are in that range. If you’ve got the skills to handle the 12 m sidecut why go shorter?

Was just looking at the specs for the Jones Freecarver. That board has 138 cm of edge on a 164 which is the same as my upcoming 166 Coiler. So Jones wasn’t screwing around there. 9 m sidecut though. 

[NateW]

4 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

What’s rider height got to do with it? The recommended weight range for the 165 is 150-220+ so most adult males are in that range. If you’ve got the skills to handle the 12 m sidecut why go shorter?

 

I guess I'm old-school but I thought the range of board length was supposed to be a function of rider height.

If one board is good for a range of weights that vary by up to 30%, why do board lengths come in 2% increments?

I'm fully on board with everybody who wants to ride fast getting the 165/12m board though. And it would come in 3 flex ranges to make that work for anyone.

[slabber]

Rode some shorter boards today and it quickly became evident that I prefer a longer board now.  

Started on an old Mistral Sonic 167cm with 18cm waist.  Tried a 154cm Mistral Pace 'freecarve' deck and put it back in the car after just one run.  It felt so short and like there was no edge to set in comparison.  Then softboots with bomber power plates on my older Burton Dragon 156.  It's a relatively stiff board suited for the pipe but also very short and small sidecut radius.  I've no interest in riding those short boards any more.  It was a good exercise for me, reinforcing that at least for carving, I want a longer board with more effective edge.  

Supposed to go up to +6°C here tomorrow so I'll start the day on the 166cm Coiler.   

[ShortcutToMoncton]

4 hours ago, NateW said:

I guess I'm old-school but I thought the range of board length was supposed to be a function of rider height.

If one board is good for a range of weights that vary by up to 30%, why do board lengths come in 2% increments?

I'm fully on board with everybody who wants to ride fast getting the 165/12m board though. And it would come in 3 flex ranges to make that work for anyone.

You’re thinking old ski metrics. Snowboard length has always been weight or discipline-based to my knowledge. 

[Neil Gendzwill]

8 hours ago, NateW said:

I guess I'm old-school but I thought the range of board length was supposed to be a function of rider height.

If one board is good for a range of weights that vary by up to 30%, why do board lengths come in 2% increments?

I'm fully on board with everybody who wants to ride fast getting the 165/12m board though. And it would come in 3 flex ranges to make that work for anyone.

Boards don’t know how tall you are. Your weight, your strength, your skill are what matters. Manufacturers charts are by weight. Some have a lot of overlap between sizes others not so much. 

[Odd Job]

I think a lot of pot and a desire to differentiate from type-a personality trust fund ski racers with a todo list has led to the land of shit sidecuts and easy-riding stuff for terminal advanced beginners.

[Rob Stevens]

The market is perfectly balanced for its needs. 
Most of the boards made are for beginners and intermediates. 
Advanced riders have lots of choices too… they just have to educate themselves. 
ultimately however, it’s down to you and your skills… there are a lot of people who are focused on equipment as being the lacking element when it’s clearly themselves. These people are far better off seeking out internal improvements, then external ones. 
 

Edited March 8 by Rob Stevens

[Cthulhufish]

 

42 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said:

there are a lot of people who are focused on equipment as being the lacking element when it’s clearly themselves.

Are there, though? Most snowboarders ride gear that is notably lacking for carving performance. Sure, you can carve well with it, if you're skilled. But that is precisely the problem. It's awfully hard to practice the fundamentals with a board that demands expert skills to get it to carve well. Discouraging beginners from using gear appropriate for what they're trying to do is doing them no favors.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I think any board can carve moderately well. Go rent a shit park board from your local hill next weekend and I guarantee you’ll be surprised at how well you can lay it over. 

You’re mistaking board performance for rider interest. The vast majority of riders are not interested in carving fundamentals period. Whether their board is designed for that in mind or not is completely irrelevant. 

[Odd Job]

Anyone working on carving with an 8m sidecut is going to be parking their turns and in some semi-carve state trying to emulate what they see on youtube. Unless they know better.

I was definitely trying to emulate what I saw on YT with a 7.95M sidecut from NeverSummer (before their rocker thing) when I first started like 14(?) years ago. It was a huge setback in progression speed. Now-a-days I would just simply hold back and still turn it so quickly I wouldn't know what to do. Or just park on it at a high edge angle and drag my ass and draw out a 15m+ turn surf-style while smoking a joint. Just not a very good thing to learn on or even ride full-time on.

[Rob Stevens]

4 hours ago, Cthulhufish said:

 

Are there, though? Most snowboarders ride gear that is notably lacking for carving performance.
 

Sure, you can carve well with it, if you're skilled. But that is precisely the problem. It's awfully hard to practice the fundamentals with a board that demands expert skills to get it to carve well.

 

Discouraging beginners from using gear appropriate for what they're trying to do is doing them no favors.

To the first part, you’re making my case for me. A basic board is easy to carve. It’s only harder for an expert to carve it because it doesn’t want to perform at the HIGH end of the envelope. 
 

to the second part, you’re again supporting my point. The custom carver is the board that required expert skills to get it to work. Anything less than expert skills is “rewarded” with a less than ideal experience. 
 

To you last point and again supported by both of us, my response is “yes”.

[Rob Stevens]

58 minutes ago, Odd Job said:

Anyone working on carving with an 8m sidecut is going to be parking their turns and in some semi-carve state trying to emulate what they see on youtube. Unless they know better.

Anyone “working” on carving will be better off on the 8m. It simply doesn’t take as much speed or edge angle to get it to ride rail to rail. 
 

I’d also add that my daily driver is an 8.5 m, has been referred to by some here as a “pow board” and will leave trenches most could not buy their way to making, even if money and manufacturer were no object. 
 

Technique is 80% of the overall performance. 
When you have that, a custom board and the fitness, you can be Crackaddict. 
When you have that, a very nice but still more “typical” board and the fitness, you can be me. 

[Odd Job]

Yeah. But you know better and will alter your technique a bit to make the 8m work if you want to draw out a bigger turn. Or just not really ever go across the fall line and bounce down the hill without gaining speed.

Someone buying their first softboot carving board with an 8m SCR is going to have a different set of expectations and experience. They're going to try to emulate XYZ hero on YT who is riding a bigger sidecut; and they're going to learn some pretty bad habits to make that SCR work that won't scale.

[Rob Stevens]

2 minutes ago, Odd Job said:

Yeah. But you know better and will alter your technique a bit to make the 8m work if you want to draw out a bigger turn. Or just not really ever go across the fall line and bounce down the hill without gaining speed.

Someone buying their first softboot carving board with an 8m SCR is going to have a different set of expectations and experience. They're going to try to emulate XYZ hero on YT who is riding a bigger sidecut; and they're going to learn some pretty bad habits to make that SCR work that won't scale.

All fair points. 
I came back to the boards I ride now after some years on hardboots, so knew how to manage the gear and expectations. 
Good talk… good talk. 

[dhamann]

8,9,10m radius is all anyone should need for free carve (learning or otherwise), unless skiing, racing, wants to make things more difficult, personal preference or wants to wag their "big feet" around. There are very few individuals that can truly handle and feel comfortable on a larger radius (12m+) daily driver soft boot snowboard. as previously stated, perfectly balanced. the remainder is technique. i love this take. run what ya brung.

the majority of the YT videos i see focused on soft boot carving have these 10m radius or less boards. some pretty displays of athleticism with these boards where the larger radius board riders are less pretty IMO, although appreciated. there are some outliers for sure and these are unique individuals with a very sound understanding of all things snowboarding, for the most part. custom stuff, alterations to equipment, etc. for sake of mainstream vs custom the market is ever changing and more and more options becoming available, therefore balanced. a lot has changed since the 90's.

the focus on the performance, design, features etc. of a snowboard to carve is something that some mainstream shops have less of an understanding of. not all shops, but some. most don't care, but some do. it's a niche. this is why the focus of carve specific equipment has been the higher end stuff that's available in 'select' shops in limited quantities and only found online or special order. barriers to entry aren't made easy. if it was, everyone would do it. is this the goal? this is slowly becoming a thing of the past due to the ever changing market and interests of the riders. it's a cliche, but snowboarding drives snowboarding. commercial mainstream doesn't. think target, amazon etc. cares about snowboarding? we know who the true drivers are and are not. is anyone here looking at the malls for equipment? there's nothing wrong with that if that's what gets people started but maybe sports illustrated and "authentic" brands group is not the direction the sport/activity of snowboarding should go. careful what we wish for.

[kitejumping]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:55 AM, Odd Job said:

I think a lot of pot and a desire to differentiate from type-a personality trust fund ski racers with a todo list has led to the land of shit sidecuts and easy-riding stuff for terminal advanced beginners.

I think if I was forced to go back to anything smaller than a 12m sidecut I would just give up snowboarding and only ride my 16-21m sidecut radius skis.  I ride a 20m sidecut though so that would be a very big drop. 

Here's some clips on it getting warmed up for the season on poor quality grooming with not much open over the weekend.  

https://www.reddit.com/r/snowboarding/s/1YQppzshXU

[Xargo]

1 hour ago, kitejumping said:

I think if I was forced to go back to anything smaller than a 12m sidecut I would just give up snowboarding and only ride my 16-21m sidecut radius skis.  I ride a 20m sidecut though so that would be a very big drop.

Yeah, your board served as an inspiration when I was still figuring out what specs I wanted for my Coiler. I would have probably went with what I got in the end anyways but seeing how well even a short 20m sidecut works, I could order pretty short 16m without feeling anxious.

I still like to ride my 7 to 9m scr boards as well but only if I feel super tired.

[d b]

I’m back! I hope

yeah it’s been awhile! Many many years and boards ,But around 2010 I left my hardboot setup and just started carving with softboots! 171 steepwater

and cateks worked great ! But was always looking for something better.

fast forward a hip replacement in 2017 took me out! More mentally,but physically too! Doctors telling me I’d never snowboard again!! Wow you have no idea! I was at my peak. One point I was getting boards from USA alpine team . 185cm 21mm 14-15scr

tropic tubes if anyone remembers that guy? I even had a Burton from Chris Klug that wasn’t a Burton LoL

what’s up with that dude?

anyways I’m done with the sidelines F the doctors! So I’m wondering if there’s a 

production board I could grab?

any help is appreciated  thanks guys!

 

ps I started in 1987 and have had a good run! Certified instructor in early 2000’s

lived at resorts …agh I better stop

[dhamann]

26 minutes ago, d b said:

anyways I’m done with the sidelines F the doctors! So I’m wondering if there’s a 

production board I could grab?

that's the snowboarder in you! welcome back! rider specs are helpful, but knee jerk response would be... if directional carve is your agenda and not knowing exactly the terrain (geographically) you intend to ride ETC. then the Jones Freecarver 9000, the winterstick line, stranda cheat or check Vaughn boards stock. binding. NOW drive (pick your flavor), Flux cv for some forgiveness or xv if you want stiffer than stiff. maybe higher end union and if you're around nelson, bc call the tribute shop to get their new collab with union; think it's in store sale only. boots. lower volume foot, ride insano. higher volume just about any other based on flex preferences.

[d b]

Yeah I’m all about going one way! Lol

6-2” not fat but ,not in shape 240lbs lots of experience, but older w the bionic hip.

Ive talked with the jones guys ,they’re good guys heading in the right direction! But the 9000 in 162cm? I like the look of that 171 cheater ! 

thanks for the input 

peace

db

[CravingCarving]

On 1/1/2024 at 2:53 PM, d b said:

Yeah I’m all about going one way! Lol

6-2” not fat but ,not in shape 240lbs lots of experience, but older w the bionic hip.

Ive talked with the jones guys ,they’re good guys heading in the right direction! But the 9000 in 162cm? I like the look of that 171 cheater ! 

thanks for the input 

peace

db

I just picked up Stranda Cheater. Only been out on it one day, but for my style/hill it was game changing compared to the regular boards I’ve tried and even my BX.

I couldn’t find the end of its grip, I didn’t need to fight it at all, so smooth and when the hill turned to mini moguls it was shockingly damp through it all. It may be a small side cut for some, but since our regions hills don’t have more than 250m (750’) of drop the manoeuvrability was fantastic.

[Pat Donnelly]

Coming fall 2024.

From EVO 2025 gear preview:  "Arbor have some great looking boards for the 24/25 season, starting with the Padre. Designed in collaboration with long-time friend of evo, Erik Leon, the Padre draws inspiration from Japanese snowboarding culture. With a directional shape, set-back stance, and powerful camber profile, this is a high performance deck for low angle carving and surfing pow alike." 

 

 

Jones will be adding a 162 to their 6000 Freecarver line 

162   118.6ee   26.7waist    170-220 lbs.

[Deuxdiesel]

I don't get the trend toward shorter boards either, and "carving" is the new buzzword.  As someone mentioned, virtually all boards can carve, but the expectation of carving from those on this forum are significantly different.  Maybe it was the rider or maybe it is the board, but that demonstration of "carving" on the Arbor is weak.  My Rossi Sushi wide can do better than that, even with it's weird-ass sidecut.  I think the SCR discussion also needs the context of region.  My wife rides a Coiler BXFR 160x24.5 with a 130EE and a 10m radius, mine is 168x27 and closer to 12m, and these are our Midwest boards.  If we rode Snowmass or Snow Basin every day, I could see going with a larger SCR, but for here, making more full rounded carved turns per run is paramount.  

[dhamann]

idk arbor and evo. not to knock the effort here, but there appears to be a bandwagon thing going on. yikes. Arbor should know better and probably does. noticing torsional flex at :35 without trying as 'advanced intermediate' is mentioned. this may be conflicting information. maybe more like beginner/intermediate interested in directional carve focused riding. just like nidecker marketed that Spectre with a 7m radius as a high speed carver. get it together. the industry is better than that and i'll say it again; Jones pretty much nailed it with the freecarver. as consumers educate themselves more, marketing becomes less relevant. thankful for places like ASB. i can blatantly see 'carving' become a fading trend with this sort of marketing. not all carving boards need to be "expert" boards. there's nothing wrong with that. this Padre appears to be less than an 'advanced intermediate' board IMO. just tell it how it is without over hyping lies lies lies. great gnr album btw.