OT: waaaaaaay OT....

[Michelle]

Oh give me a break! I know I'm not perfect, and I have faults just like everyone else. And I don't think I ever said "how could anyone not want me".

someone not wanting to stay does not always mean they are scared, scarred, dishonest, not worthy, or anything of the sort. It sometimes mean they simply "arent feeling it" or are not physically attracted...the list of legitimate reasons is fairly long.

If a guy/girl is "not into it anymore" then just freakin' say it! Don't beat around the bush, make us think that we did something wrong and beat ourselves up for it, and try and try to make it work. Sometimes women will blame themselves for things in the relationship that go wrong, and we'll try to make it better, when all the guy wants is to get out. Oh, but they want to make us FEEL better - yeah - it's working! :p

Men say that women make them guess!! HA I say!!! Some men do it, and some women just internalize it (I am one of those- guilty as charged).

Ok, lose interest. But don't tell someone that they are your world, and you love every aspect of their being, and then just leave. For no reason. Or make something up that's not true, because the other person can usually tell.

I'm not sure what you told this girl with the hair, but maybe if you would have said that you didn't find her comment nice, her insecurities about her own body hair maybe would have ceased to be an issue, and she would have laid off of yours.

There's a nice way, and a wrong way to say things and still tell the truth to someone and not make them feel inadequate. But you are right - there are liars, and guys (and I'm sure girls, I just don't happen to be one) who will squirm their way out of anything - JEEZ DON'T MAKE ME TELL THE TRUTH!!!

I'll probably get lots of backlash for this, but man, why can't people just say what they really mean?

[Michelle]

it's been rather one-sided (another facet that a lot of women possess, in my experience...selfish sexuality)

What do you mean here?

and despite the cuteness (or perhaps because of it) and intelligence my interest is waning and I am !@#$!@#$^%$ depressed about it

And why are you depressed about it? At least you found out now, instead of after you slept with her and possibly lead her to believe you are really interested in something more serious? You should be happy about that.

[D-Sub]

Oh give me a break! I know I'm not perfect, and I have faults just like everyone else. And I don't think I ever said "how could anyone not want me".

I know, mich...it was a generalization. My bad.

Ok, lose interest. But don't tell someone that they are your world, and you love every aspect of their being, and then just leave. For no reason. Or make something up that's not true, because the other person can usually tell.

I'd be a fool to call this an unreasonable expectation!

I'm not sure what you told this girl with the hair, but maybe if you would have said that you didn't find her comment nice, her insecurities about her own body hair maybe would have ceased to be an issue, and she would have laid off of yours.

hell I never thought of it that way, and still don't. Insecurities about her own body hair? nah...I dont think that was it.

There's a nice way, and a wrong way to say things and still tell the truth to someone and not make them feel inadequate. But you are right - there are liars, and guys (and I'm sure girls, I just don't happen to be one) who will squirm their way out of anything - JEEZ DON'T MAKE ME TELL THE TRUTH!!!

That wasnt how I meant it. I meant that...very, very often, in fact most often in my experience, THE TRUTH simply triggers a reaction, and that fear of reaction leads to avoidance. It's ****ty, but its just another aspect of modern life that has multiple facets, all of them f----d up.

I'll probably get lots of backlash for this, but man, why can't people just say what they really mean?

I stated my opinion above.

[D-Sub]

What do you mean here?

heh...I shoulda kept that to myself...private :)

And why are you depressed about it? At least you found out now, instead of after you slept with her and possibly lead her to believe you are really interested in something more serious? You should be happy about that.

Im ****ing depressed because this means back to the drawing board even though this nice, cute (more cute than beautiful) smart girl who is in great shape with a hot bod and IS INTO ME.

Yes, good that I havent slept with her because at least now if we split she will get over it much sooner. I might be stupid but I've figured a few things out (took forever)

I'm depressed because aside from a VERY weird sexual relationship I had for a few months this is the first chick to even notice I exist since I left Bend.

[skipuppy]

Dave, was the girl a Brandeis alumn? Sometimes the Brandeis chicas can be hairy.

Q: If you aren't 'feeling it' anymore ... how often can you get 'it' back?

[D-Sub]

Dave, was the girl a Brandeis alumn? Sometimes the Brandeis chicas can be hairy.

Brandeis? heh...nah...just a SoCal girl. Not "hippy" hairy if thats what you mean...

Q: If you aren't 'feeling it' anymore ... how often can you get 'it' back?

well...Im not sure if Im "feeling it" or not...there are aspects that make me..well...almost cringe ...but...are you asking if I think "it" can be brought back to life?

yes, I do, but sometimes, rarely.

part of the problem here is...I literally ended up with a crush on this girl...I was so excited and flattered that I laid it on pretty thick (believe it or not I can be pretty charming) but I did this before I started seeing some of these, well, childish personality traits.

[bobdea]

make me laugh

I'm such a bitter bastard right now, thanks for entertaining me, I needed it.

Go ahead and ask if if you want.

ohh, Dave, if you want some vouchers and think you can make it up here, I'll mail you some, can't beat free skiing at Mammoth.

[Allee]

If a guy/girl is "not into it anymore" then just freakin' say it! Don't beat around the bush, make us think that we did something wrong and beat ourselves up for it, and try and try to make it work. Sometimes women will blame themselves for things in the relationship that go wrong, and we'll try to make it better, when all the guy wants is to get out. Oh, but they want to make us FEEL better - yeah - it's working!

I totally agree. I'm the same as Michelle - sometimes I'm too brutally honest for my own good, and generally I'll call it how I see it. Guys, do us a favour - be honest. It might hurt at the time, but we'll thank you later...

[LeeW]

What?!? Be honest ??? -sigh- I live by this rule often, but I tell you something. I have had this "policy" be thrown back in my face one time too many. So it seems that its best to be honest -WITH- tacts. I got in trouble with my girl about this not too long ago, and lesson learned -- learn how to be honest with some manners to a degree.

[Aisling]

Ok, lose interest. But don't tell someone that they are your world, and you love every aspect of their being, and then just leave. For no reason. Or make something up that's not true, because the other person can usually tell.

THIS is precisely what makes me turn into a basketcase... the whole " i love you,you're my best friend, my true love... we'll be together forever"... then... go and stick it in someone else and tell them those same things and then when you're caught try and blame the person you HURT!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyway.

i'm over it, just the idea makes me bananas. :p

[Michelle]

So it seems that its best to be honest -WITH- tacts. I got in trouble with my girl about this not too long ago, and lesson learned -- learn how to be honest with some manners to a degree.

Exactly what I am saying. I'm not saying tell the truth and be brutal and hurt the person intentionally so they don't come back (have had that done too, and it leaves permanent scars). Just be honest, with tact, and let it go. Don't keep hanging on to something that you don't want.

But also, don't tell the person that you love them AND THEN walk away- that leaves them in a state of "what did I do" and "how can I fix it" being. And that SUCKS to leave someone hanging.

Aisling, I totally agree. That kind of behavior is childish and irresponsible, and should not be tolerated by anyone. Problem is that a lot of people do tolerate it, and therefore allow the other person to think "it's ok, I can get away with it". I'm sick of people making me feel like it's my fault all the time. I'm not perfect, and I'm sure I do things to be blamed for, but I usually admit them. But when I know it's not me, and I'm getting blamed "I wouldn't have done that if you wouldn't have....blah blah" Not from this sister!!!

[Michelle]

I totally agree. I'm the same as Michelle - sometimes I'm too brutally honest for my own good, and generally I'll call it how I see it. Guys, do us a favour - be honest. It might hurt at the time, but we'll thank you later...

Allee, couldn't agree more or have said it better. Like a bandaid......

Go ahead and ask if if you want....

OH yeah, spill it. I'm asking. We've spilled, now it's time to hear from a you.

[Michelle]

Well...enough of that. I'm in New Orleans for Jazz Fest and the weather is something I never thought possible here - clear skies, mild temps, low humidity. Gonna be a GREAT day!

Today's lineup: Rod Stewart (!), Nora Jones, Henry Butler, Calexico, Tab Benoit.....and many more.

Tomorrow: Jerry Lee Lewis (!!!), Bonnie Raitt, Pete Fountain, Irvin Mayfield, Irma Thomas.....

[bartron]

Today's lineup: Rod Stewart (!), Nora Jones, Henry Butler, Calexico, Tab Benoit.....and many more.

Tomorrow: Jerry Lee Lewis (!!!), Bonnie Raitt, Pete Fountain, Irvin Mayfield, Irma Thomas.....

Sounds like the Montreal Jazz fest.

'later...

[Neuffy]

It's just my experience that people don't change that much. You're either compatible from the get-go, or not.

QFT!

Then again, I'm in a permanent relationship that has been a permanent relationship from, well, day one. So, I may be just a little bit biased. Personally, I just don't get the "dating" thing, where you date individuals that you do not yet know. As far as I can tell, at least in my part of the world, "dating" is on a fairly severe downswing among those 18-30, as people are preferring to get to know people as friends before they become a couple.

[And because I saw CF above: I think a lot of people get CF confused with anti-child. Very odd juxtaposition of not wanting children, not wanting badly-raised children around, and then complaining about people who want children and do indeed raise them well (eg. the classic "my friend had a baby and now she's no fun" thing). Actually, it very near a perfect parallel of rather a lot of topics, most of which involve "choice" meaning that you are not allowed to make "traditional" choices at all. - Oh, and this is truly OT - I totally agree about that guy being an ass....so this really isn't related at all. I was tired :rolleyes: ]

[Allee]

I think a lot of people get CF confused with anti-child. Very odd juxtaposition of not wanting children, not wanting badly-raised children around, and then complaining about people who want children and do indeed raise them well (eg. the classic "my friend had a baby and now she's no fun" thing).

Actually, people with babies generally are no fun. I remember when I was in my early 20's and I went to visit a friend of mine who had one of about 2, and a newly hatched, and I was sitting there talking to her and I could tell she didn't hear a word I was saying. So when she absently said "what are you up to this week?" I said "Actually, last week I shot and killed someone, so now I am on the run from the law and I'm off to join the French Foreign Legion". Without taking her eyes off the kid who was busily wrecking the furniture, she said "uh huh, that's cool". I stil laugh when I think about it. I might as well have been talking to the dog.

The same friend complained loudly to me a few weeks later when she was asked to leave Denny's, when her kid and a friend's kid had a food fight and threw food and drink all over the restaurant. Her attitude was that "it's a family restaurant, and you have to expect that when you go to those sorts of places"...sorry, but other people should NOT have to tolerate your badly behaved child. I don't complain about people who raise their kids well, actually I congratulate them as society seems to be making it harder and harder to do, but I certainly think the world could do with more of them...

[Neuffy]

Well, that friend's just a bit messed up, IMO. Children who are not well behaved simply should not be taken to restaurants. You're absolutely right that people should not have to tolerate badly behaved children, although occasionally it seems that some people believe that they should not have to tolerate the existence/presence of children, full-stop. For example, the breast-feeding-in-public issue.

Oh, and food fight? The hell? That's an instant "You have to leave now" if the parents don't do the appropriate "We're leaving now/pay/leave." Then again, my experience is a .. tad different. I've been going to formal events since I was three (at least, that's my earliest recollection thereof), and know a dozen or so kids who went to some of the same events as I did when I was somewhat older, peacefully and appropriately. I guess I just operate on the assumption that if people of any age are misbehaving, they will be told to leave, and work from there.

The issue seems primarily one of a dispute over the idea that babies are _supposed_ to be the primary focus of their parents. Aren't they? If they're not, how can we complain that they are not raised with appropriate diligence and effort? If they are, how can we complain that they take up too much of their parents' attention? Of course, this doesn't mean that your example is not valid, it just means that I think we can reasonably expect lifestyle changes upon sprogging (what an amazing ability CFers have for inventing new words to describe the very process of reproduction, childraising, childbearing and so forth!).

Favorite...response to undisciplined children (albeit this does perhaps both begin a little early and go a little far):

http://files.redvsblue.com/web/images/comic/RT_Comic_Ep89_Public.jpg

[Neil Gendzwill]

Her attitude was that "it's a family restaurant, and you have to expect that when you go to those sorts of places"...sorry, but other people should NOT have to tolerate your badly behaved child.

Just because you managed to wriggle upstream and spawn doesn't make you a qualified parent. Most of us who have kids agree with you. If you want your children to behave well in restaurants though, you have to take them to restaurants early. You can't expect them to know what to do if they aren't ever taken out. Plus it starts at home - we don't tolerate any more running around/screaming/food fights at our dinner table than we do in public.

Once in public, you have to be prepared to deal with them appropriately. If one of our kids threw a fit (and they all do from time to time, a thing many non-parents don't get), one of us just picked up the kid and hauled him to the nearest isolated place (usually the bathroom), where the kid could cool his heels until he decided that we weren't kidding around.

Another idiotic thing people do is go to a restaurant with nothing for their 3 year old to do. Half an hour waiting for food is an eternity. My wife always had a selection of toys, games and books squirreled away in the diaper bag, and even when the kids were out of diapers that bag would get hauled in to restaurants.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Our sometimes solution;drive throughs.

[Aisling]

what do you guys think about the idea of karma?

[Michelle]

I completely believe in Karma. I don't know if you rack up karma points and lose them if you do something bad, but I do believe that if you treat people like you want to be treated, it will come back to you. People tell me the same thing about vibes - if you put out positive vibes you will attract people that are the same.

[LeeW]

Vibes. Totally. I pick up bad vibes, and usually, almost to 100% accurate, my hunch'd be right.

[Aisling]

I completely believe in Karma. I don't know if you rack up karma points and lose them if you do something bad, but I do believe that if you treat people like you want to be treated, it will come back to you. People tell me the same thing about vibes - if you put out positive vibes you will attract people that are the same.

im not sure i do... because if it existed i think that people who treat others like **** wouldn't 'karmically' be allowed to be happy... instead those who treat people poorly always seem to come out on top.

*growl*

[Michelle]

But things are not always what they seem Ais......

[jnshapiro]

I don't buy the concept of Karma. It just doesn't jive with my experiences, or fit in with my view of the world.