Does Skiing makes you better carver in alpine snowboard?

[yamifumi]

I am curious what people's thoughts on cross-training with skiing. 

I started skiing when I was 6 years old but changed into snowboard at age of 14, then exclusively to alpine snowboard at 21 then got back on skis again last year (32 yrs old) as I wanted to do alpine touring at local mountain and also on the days with powder snow, tree runs, and afternoon days when the slope gets choppy. 

Although I have been snowboarding, I felt that skiing was much more tough on my thigh/legs and use different muscle that I don't use with carving. My setup used to be toe lift at front + heel lift at rear (no cant), however, now it is flat on the front and heel lift on rear. I used to hate riding flat on the front binding as it made my thigh really tired, hence, I had toe lift but as I was watching word cup riders, they usually have flat front and heel lift at the back. 

I had more chance to ski this season and I have not felt any tiredness on front thigh with flat (no lift nor cant) front binding and I feel that toe side is much stronger with flat front. I am more conscious on having good posture of upper body and practice carving on skis as well.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by yamifumi

[lowrider]

I think there are too many variables to compare between skiing and boarding but in general if you are doing both you are using different muscles and therefore in better shape. Wonder how you would feel going back to some toe lift now ?

[yamifumi]

42 minutes ago, lowrider said:

I think there are too many variables to compare between skiing and boarding but in general if you are doing both you are using different muscles and therefore in better shape. Wonder how you would feel going back to some toe lift now ?

I agree that there are too many variables to compare but like you said, I feel like my legs are in better shape, hence, can keep carving more w/o having to stop.

[lonbordin]

The only thing I've noticed is folks who come over to alpine after skiing for sometime tend to like higher angles, squared shoulders, narrower boards.  While those coming from boarding backgrounds tend to go for lower angles, wider boards, etc.  I've not noticed any one or the other being less fatigued or having "better" posture.

Cross-training is a thing and there are benefits.

All that said my front foot lift has more to do with centering my knee over my board.

[SunSurfer]

Benefits can go both ways. I found that learning to properly carve a snowboard improved my ability to find my edge and carve my skis when I do go skiing.

[powdahbonz]

I feel it does...I have abandoned the days where I'd switch up mid-days from alpine or soft boots to skis and vice versa but running gs or longer sidecut big planks to finesse a run feels similar, to me. I'm now in my 30th season of snowboarding and feel like that my carving has improved with spending time between all disciplines. My youngest son skis so typically I'm skiing with him but other than that, I'm only on planks in deep snow days when I feel like it and flipping a coin between my Nitro Saber and Winterstick Wescott.

[yamifumi]

2 hours ago, lonbordin said:

The only thing I've noticed is folks who come over to alpine after skiing for sometime tend to like higher angles, squared shoulders, narrower boards.  While those coming from boarding backgrounds tend to go for lower angles, wider boards, etc.  I've not noticed any one or the other being less fatigued or having "better" posture.

Cross-training is a thing and there are benefits.

All that said my front foot lift has more to do with centering my knee over my board.

That is a good point about centering the knee! But then why majority of the world cup riders like flat front binding?

1 hour ago, SunSurfer said:

Benefits can go both ways. I found that learning to properly carve a snowboard improved my ability to find my edge and carve my skis when I do go skiing.

Thats true, I am more conscious of carving on skis.

13 minutes ago, powdahbonz said:

I feel it does...I have abandoned the days where I'd switch up mid-days from alpine or soft boots to skis and vice versa but running gs or longer sidecut big planks to finesse a run feels similar, to me. I'm now in my 30th season of snowboarding and feel like that my carving has improved with spending time between all disciplines. My youngest son skis so typically I'm skiing with him but other than that, I'm only on planks in deep snow days when I feel like it and flipping a coin between my Nitro Saber and Winterstick Wescott.

I now prefer GS boards (longer scr and length) even if it is crowded or narrower runs.

[lowrider]

World cup and flat front foot. Could be that their boot cuff's are very forward  BST's etc. also very steep incline on the mountain. The last thing they would want is to be balanced such that they could find themselves in the back seat locked into a carve. They are charging hard with the fall line not so much traversing  usually with what i consider very high heel lift for you average carver.

[Gabe T]

I did not really start skiing until my 40s and I have found there to be quite a few parallels between skiing and alpine carving that have complimented each other in terms of refining technique.   I tried skiing briefly back when skis were straight, then took up snowboarding shortly after and did that exclusively for 15 years.  Then, one of the local regulars at my ski hill loaned me some fairly modern skis to try a few years ago.  I find it a refreshing change to switch to skis.  It can be fun in a wider range of conditions so it really helps extend the day with some enjoyable riding. 

I picked up carving on skis fairly quickly; it’s the non carving techniques in more difficult terrain that I find most challenging.   As I refined my ski carving technique, I started to notice quite a few similarities, in particular with a heel side turn.   (I ride goofy so this would be a right turn)    During the shaping or compression part of turn, the outside hand will move along with the arc of the turn, coming up to the front as it coincides with the edge change.  This is very similar to movement of the hands in skiing where it finishes with a pole plant or touch a the end of the turn to set up the new turn.   At the same time, there is a strong retraction of the legs and hip movement towards the new inside edge.    Angulation during the turn is also very similar.

Yamifumi, what sort of forward lean do you have on your boots?  Although you mentioned the strain you felt was helped with additional training with skis I'm  wondering if it could be related to boot setup.  Generally, your front boot should be set more upright compared with your back boot.   If you stand in a natural athletic stance in your living room without boots on, take note of the angles of your lower leg relative to the floor.   You’ll notice the front one will be more upright; your boot setup should be set up similarly.    While you are standing there, try and match the angles for both legs.  What you’ll find is that you’ll immediately start to feel a lot more strain on your front leg.

 

[yamifumi]

13 minutes ago, Gabe T said:

Yamifumi, what sort of forward lean do you have on your boots?  Although you mentioned the strain you felt was helped with additional training with skis I'm  wondering if it could be related to boot setup.  Generally, your front boot should be set more upright compared with your back boot.   If you stand in a natural athletic stance in your living room without boots on, take note of the angles of your lower leg relative to the floor.   You’ll notice the front one will be more upright; your boot setup should be set up similarly.    While you are standing there, try and match the angles for both legs.  What you’ll find is that you’ll immediately start to feel a lot more strain on your front leg.

 

I set it up so that the front boot is more upright  and rear boot has forward lean (I had UPZ and now I have point 951). UPZ is known for having build in forward lean and felt fine at the beginning of the season with flat front bindings compared to 2 years ago. It could be that point 951 has less ramp angle than UPZ.

[BlueB]

Years of skiing made me a better snowboarder very quickly, when I transitioned, as I could apply the most of the concepts. Plus the ingrained affinity for responsive setup (hard boots)... 

But advancing in alpine snowboarding made me a better skier too. Learning the uncompromised balance and bite of a single edge, made me a better ski carver! 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

My old friend, Jon R., whom I bumped into at Wachussetts recently, was on Tele-Skis (JG, take note, NOT, I repeat, NOT on a "teleboard"!). And, he noted that the skis 'were like doing Toeside Carves, but on Either Foot-forward'! Yep, That...

 

[Gabe T]

Sort of the opposite of regular skis where the turns feel like alternating regular and goofy heel side turns where the inside skis leads through the carve.  In tele,  the inside ski is the trailer making it feel like a toe side.   Never tried it myself but I've recently noticed some guys make some pretty nice carves on them at a decent clip. 

[Beckmann AG]

On 1/29/2018 at 11:59 AM, yamifumi said:

I am curious what people's thoughts on cross-training with skiing. 

Skiing is the new snowboarding, so you might as well take advantage.