Tips on Introducing Others to Alpine Snowboarding?

[st_lupo]

Hi all!

 

I kind of feel that I'm sitting on top of an opportunity in my local town in Norway but I'm not really sure how to proceed.  We've got a growing population of carving snowboarders here (hey, they added me to their ranks last season!), and I know of a few more people at work that imho would love the sport.  The problem is that they are a bit less impulsive than me, so they would like to "try it before they buy it", and there are no rentals that I know of in Norway.  

 

They sound really interested in trying the sport out, and they can certainly borrow my Silberpfeil board, but boots are a big problem.  Is it viable to introduce them to the sport using ski boots (if so what kind? recreational boots, racing boots, etc any brand that are better?).  

 

Any proven strategies on winning people over to the cause?  I think that developing a slightly bigger community of hardboot snowboarders in this little corner of Norway would help the rest of us to improve our technique significantly.  Ultimately I would love an old-duffers racing league here! 

[philw]

I don't know - others here may. I suspect that there may be an opportunity at this point ~ skate-snowboarding isn't quite the force it once was and (as someone else said here recently) what's old is new again. You're right that boots have to be the crux of the matter, and that's hard to get around. 

1. They could try the stiffest, meanest skate-snowboard boots they could find perhaps.
   I know soft booters who ride as well as hard booters, so it can be done even with trick-oriented footwear.
    
2. Many of us may a few pairs of old boots, but I'm not sure how attractive those are, or how useful as you need the right boot of the right size in the right place.
    
3. The other alternative would be ski boots. Personally I learned in Dynafit 3F Comp S boots, and I'd nothing to complain about, but then I don't take prisoners.
   If I remember correctly you do get some interface play in standard bindings (can't use ski boots in Intex bindings), which may compensate for the boot stiffness somewhat.
   I later used some super-stiff Nordica race boots, which were even less flexible. I wanted control and did I say I wasn't taking prisoners?
   I suspect all-terrain softer boots would be easier to use - original hard snowboard boots were Koflach plastic climbing boots (I had the climbing boots, which were wonderful..).

I think the best shot would be to borrow what they can, then use ski boots and accept that's going to make it weird and challenging. If you're lucky they'll see enough of the light to invest in some boots after that...

[jng]

I think ski boots will have mixed results.  The lack of proper flex will make it more difficult to initiate turns and handle less than ideal conditions.  If they can already carve on softboots, they may or may not find the compromise worthwhile.  If they can't carve yet, the wrong gear will be unlikely to convince them to keep at it.

[Mr.E]

I think the biggest part is finding folks that are willing to give it a couple of shots. Most folks don't jump on an alpine board and find immediate success- there is usually a little bit of adjusting time were they learn to not fight the changes to stance and ankle mobility.

 

If they commit to a couple of days of it, then I think most can figure out if they like it on ski boots (especially if they are skiers and are wearing their own boots).

 

I agree that alpine specific boots are generally better for most alpine recreational riders, but I'm of the mind that the changes to stance and the mental hurdles are much bigger than wearing boots with a not-perfect flex pattern. I'm not a big guy and I've managed to ride in all manner of ski and AT boots in addition to a few specific hard boots shells. Lots of folks are riding in assorted AT boots, Full Tilts and fairly stiff Nordica's and other alpine ski boots at all levels of performance.

 

If they are renting boots to give it a go, just make sure they are on decent boots and that they are non rear-entry. Anything with a decent fit that can fit in a standard bail binding will get them through long enough to decide if they want to get more interested. 

[slopestar]

I say start simple. Take whatever they currently ride, lose the "quack stance" and get them into positive/positive angles. As simple as taking the guy/gal with +15/-15 to +21/+12. It's the easiest way to change the mindset without even removing bindings. Just have them try it for a couple runs. This season, I have a date with several level 1/2 instructors to do just this. No boots, no boards. Run what you brung

[bruincounselor]

I say start simple. Take whatever they currently ride, lose the "quack stance" and get them into positive/positive angles. As simple as taking the guy/gal with +15/-15 to +21/+12. It's the easiest way to change the mindset without even removing bindings. Just have them try it for a couple runs. This season, I have a date with several level 1/2 instructors to do just this. No boots, no boards. Run what you brung

 

I like this approach. If they are true jibbers you might try transitioning them into a stiffer freeride board or BX board once they get past the odd feeling of pointing in the right direction. 

[slopestar]

I also plan to bring along a diamond stone and an edge file as well. Nothing makes me cringe more than seeing them using a rasp file at a 45* angle at one of the tool benches.

Well that and dragging their board across the parking lot

Edited October 17, 2015 by slopestar

[queequeg]

Hi all!

 

I kind of feel that I'm sitting on top of an opportunity in my local town in Norway but I'm not really sure how to proceed.  We've got a growing population of carving snowboarders here (hey, they added me to their ranks last season!), and I know of a few more people at work that imho would love the sport.  The problem is that they are a bit less impulsive than me, so they would like to "try it before they buy it", and there are no rentals that I know of in Norway.  

 

They sound really interested in trying the sport out, and they can certainly borrow my Silberpfeil board, but boots are a big problem.  Is it viable to introduce them to the sport using ski boots (if so what kind? recreational boots, racing boots, etc any brand that are better?).  

 

Any proven strategies on winning people over to the cause?  I think that developing a slightly bigger community of hardboot snowboarders in this little corner of Norway would help the rest of us to improve our technique significantly.  Ultimately I would love an old-duffers racing league here! 

 

Ski boots are a terrible idea. They are called ski-boots for a reason: they aren't snowboarding boots. Yes some racers use them, but they modify the hell out of them and your would-be students are not racers. This is the fastest way to turn them away from the sport IMO.

 

I think your best bet is to get them carving to the best of their ability on the equipment that is available to them, and leave them hungry for more, and realizing that their equipment is the limitation. At that point they may have more confidence, and motivated to actually dive in. Since there is no try-before you buy, at that point they have to just go for it if they want more power out of their equipment.

 

Notably: some people are carving pretty damn hard on softies these days so you can probably take them pretty far. Look at some of the videos coming out of Japan ... there are people positively ripping on softies both toe and heelside.

[Beckmann AG]

I think ski boots will have mixed results.  The lack of proper flex will make it more difficult to initiate turns and handle less than ideal conditions.

 

 

I have a modest demo fleet of boards with very adjustable bindings, and set up 'newbies' frequently, using whatever boots they have available. Most often this means their ski boots or a pair of skanky's from the rental shop.

The outcome is always the same, in that they come back with a smile and a newfound appreciation for a part of wintersport they had previously only seen, but not experienced.

 

If you need a lot of flex out of the boots at the entry level, you either have your gear set up wonky, or you're on a board that isn't right for your body and/or low speed maneuverability.  Novice hardbooters don't need to wad themselves up like yesterday's Kleenex in order to gain enjoyable insight into the possibilities of a directional stance and solid interface.

 

 

Ski boots are a terrible idea. They are called ski-boots for a reason: they aren't snowboarding boots. Yes some racers use them, but they modify the hell out of them and your would-be students are not racers. This is the fastest way to turn them away from the sport IMO.

 

  

Sending novices out in ski boots when you lack the time, interest, or knowledge to adequately configure their gear is a terrible idea. Sending them out in the 'proper' footwear, in a trendy-wide stance, on the latest and greatest board, with whatever binding setup happens to be 'de Jure' is probably worse, for the simple reason that if they 'know' they have the 'right' gear, and they still fail, they will equate that failure with their own capacity/potential.

 

Perhaps the fastest way to turn prospective participants away from the sport is to tell them they can't eat at your favorite lunch counter until they change their shoes. 

[AcousticBoarder]

I can really see the ski boot idea going both ways. I think it depends where they are coming from...

 

First and foremost, if they are already snowboarders and have gear, definitely go with Slopestar's suggestion and start with softies at forward angles. They probably will not be able to rail it by the first day, but it will definitely give them a taste for what is to come. It is also by far the simplest method, and if you search through the forums, there are a number of posts with people starting in soft boots before buying, so it is a proven method. If you have a set of stiff bindings they can use and/or power plates, it will help even more. 

 

If however they are skiers and have gear (or atleast boots), then you would be better off probably to have them use their ski boots on your board. Already being used to their boots, they shouldn't have too much trouble adapting, at least no more than if you stuck them in soft boots.

 

If they don't already ski or board, it's probably cheaper to go with the ski boot method as they only have to rent ski boots, and they aren't learning to use their ankles/ other softie techniques that don't carry over just to unlearn them on proper gear.

[Bob L.]

For skiers making the transition, go with what ya got. I started snowboarding on a yard-sale burton supermodel, TD bindings and my insanely stiff Lange Tii ski boots.

 

I think if you had a curious, motivated and tenacious skier who loves carving on skis, I'd suggest he/she start in their ski boots on a carving board . Just loosen the cuff buckle a bit. If they're already a soft-booter I think Slopestart's on the money,  Most mortals though need hard boots of some sort to get the all-in carving feeling imho.

[st_lupo]

Sounds like Slopestar's recommendation is the safest way to go.  I'll throw a good edge tune on my SuperModel and let them try the forward facing stance on that.  Probably start looking at a centered 51cm-ish stance (they are both around my size) and try with a cant plate on the back foot if that makes the stance feel more natural.

 

The people I am thinking of have at least 10 years of snowboarding under their belts.  I'm just wondering if any ex-freestylers have any insight on how big of a change it feels like going from duck-stance to both-feet-forward (BFF?)?  Ever since I started snowboarding (softboots) I was riding at about +45/+25 and never thought much about it other than I couldn't ride switch like most of my friends.  But last year when I tried hardboots and an alpine board for the first time the experience was just out of this world crazy.  It's that feeling I'd really like to recreate for the folks over here, because then I know they would be hooked.

 

Since I've only got one year of experience on hard-boots, I don't want to screw up their first carving experience because of my inexperience.  Any typical pitfalls that I should avoid?  Should I just start with trying to teach "the norm"?  Is it best to be more systematic and do drills, or do you see better results by just going for a fun ride, with me on my alpine board doing some simple demonstrations and them trying to repeat?

 

Thanks!

Thanks!

[Guest]

 Novice hardbooters don't need to wad themselves up like yesterday's Kleenex in order to gain enjoyable insight into the possibilities of a directional stance and solid interface.

 

 

This should become Bomber's new tagline.