lordmetroland Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Anyone have an extra one of these doodads that let you compute lift/cant on later Catek bindings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monodude Posted October 8, 2015 Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 Anyone have an extra one of these doodads that let you compute lift/cant on later Catek bindings? I seem to remember seeing info somewhere that X turns = X degrees. I use Cateks on several of my "toys" and I just adjust to my liking. I don't care if I have 3* toe. I just ride and feel. I got some Virus boots last year and changed to step-ins. The first rides were not good. Recent talk has informed me about the bigger heel rise. I'm anxious to re-adjust the angles taking that info into account. You could also use a cheap "angle finder" to get things close to your target numbers. Home Depot, Lowes, carry them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2015 I seem to remember seeing info somewhere that X turns = X degrees. You're right. There's a dynamic cant/life calculator on one of the obsolete Catek sites that I've used. I think it was developed for the 1.0 version of Cateks where the screws sat closer to the baseplate. The later versions require more turns. It also tops out (I think) at 3 degrees. I'm sure there's some math that would allow me to calculate for higher values, but I'm not that smart/devoted. I'm sure you're right than I'm overthinking this and should just go with what feels good, but I'm the kind of guy who doesn't know if wine tastes good unless someone else has given it a rating. The Home Depot angle finder may be the next best thing. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monodude Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Bola thinks he has one somewhere... He told me he would keep an eye out for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Wow, that would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I may have one in the stash, but it's 3.5 hrs and several days distant. You can probably get an 'digital protractor' app for to map the tilt of the binding using your cell/mobile/handheld/two-way wrist TV. Besides, measurements don't get you where you need to be; they get you back to where you were once you wander off in search of that something better that isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I may have one in the stash, but it's 3.5 hrs and several days distant. I'm in no hurry. I'm pretty sure I broke a rib or two tonight so I'd have no plans even if there were snow. Besides, measurements don't get you where you need to be; they get you back to where you were once you wander off in search of that something better that isn't. I'm trying to let the Percocet do the talking, but even it doesn't know what to say. I'm pretty sure, though, once I find the right cant/lift angles, I'm going to be totally frickin' awesome. Until then, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Besides, measurements don't get you where you need to be; they get you back to where you were once you wander off in search of that something better that isn't. ...still searching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 ^If memory serves, you're a bit of a conformational outlier. And it's difficult to find what you're looking for if you're not quite certain what it 'looks' like. And if you knew what it looked like, you'd probably be there instead of searching. Consider radio signal. Less static is generally a move in the right direction, but if you've never experienced a truly 'clear' signal, any static reduction at all will appear 'good-better-best' next to what you had at the beginning. And along that continuum of change, how do you identify the distance between start and finish if you haven't yet reached the 'end'? One of the greatest difficulties with 'dialing in' the gear, be it snowboards, skis, or bikes, is that some changes improve where you are, at present, while others will only improve things where you eventually get to, but only if you allow yourself to learn and explore the movement possibilities beyond what you already hold as 'true'. When searching for the needle in haystack, either look for the needle, or remove all the hay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) What Monodude said. The Catek tilt screws are 1 mm thread pitch (standard for M6), and I think they're conveniently 60 mm apart, so cant and lift in degrees would be very nearly the difference in number of turns side to side or front to back respectively. Thank a devotee of the Rule of 60 for that! EDIT: Just dug out my Catek OS1s. The tilt screws are about 60 mm apart side to side, but more like 85 mm front-to-back. Recalculating... So if d is the difference in number of turns and L is the distance between respective tilt screws, the angle they create is the arctangent of d/L. It's approximately d * 60/L when the angle is small. So when L = 60 it's all nice and easy. But 85? Who ordered that? RE-EDIT: Just did some more measuring. The tilt screws are M8, not M6, and standard M8 thread pitch of 1.25 mm. So 4 turns gets you 5 mm. You'd need to multiply the difference in number of turns by 1.25 then. So you get the approximate formula d * 75/L for lift or cant in degrees. I also dug out my set of OS2s. The holes for the dipstick are 55 mm apart. The dipstick is marked in mm. So the differential measurement is the d * 1.25 above, and L = 55. For approximation purposes, 55 is as good as 60 (57.3 is even better). So the differential measurement is approximately the lift or cant in degrees. You could just use the depth gauge on a standard caliper in place of the dipstick. It's probably easier to read. Edited October 10, 2015 by teach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Seems like something we could easily duplicate. Damn, how did you booger yourself? Did you NOT get one in all the Catek stuff I sold you? Did I have another Senior moment or something? Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Seems like something we could easily duplicate. That's what I thought too, but figured it might be easier to just ask if someone had a spare they'd part with. Damn, how did you booger yourself? If this was directed at me, I'm not sure what "boogering myself" means, but it sounds exactly like something I'd do. Did you NOT get one in all the Catek stuff I sold you? Nope. In all the pounds of Catek metal I've bought, none it the bits resembles a dipstick. Except maybe me, for buying pounds of metal from a defunct company. Er, is anyone with access to a CNC machine listening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Broken ribs? How did you hurt yourself = boogering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) ^ ^ Re: CNC. You do realize the Dipstick is little more than a section of aluminum rod, ribbed for your measure? It's for qualifying, not quantifying. As in, quick reference when you swap bindings from one board to the next. Edited October 10, 2015 by Beckmann AG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Broken ribs? How did you hurt yourself = boogering. Ah, no wonder it sounded like something I might do! I executed a brilliant and spectacular, trials-like, front wheelstand on my mountain bike. Unintentionally. My toppling over was just as spectacular only less brilliant, onto a bed of babyhead rocks. Even more brilliantly, it happened right at the top of the circuit. The only thing that hurt worse than the fall was not falling the rest of the way down. You do realize the Dipstick is little more than a section of aluminum rod, ribbed for your measure? Pretty sure you meant "pleasure," but I'll overlook the mistake. What I meant about CNC, not very clearly, was I wish a funct company would pick up where defunct Catek left off and make a freeride binding, maybe on the Bomber lower platform, without the added weight of bindings + Power Plates. Anyone? It's for qualifying, not quantifying. As in, quick reference when you swap bindings from one board to the next. I'm sure you're right. I was under the impression that the dipstick was calibrated so that you could subtract the markings on one side from the other and get the degree of lift/cant? If not, maybe it is just a pleasure tool... Edited October 11, 2015 by lordmetroland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Focus, my dear chap. Focus. Don't let the Perky Set get the better of your reading comprehension. Re: ribs. Whatever you do, don't crash your bike (and get run over) on a Tuesday, then fabricate your own replacement derailleur hanger on Wednesday, then race a criterium that weekend. Makes it kinda hard to breathe. Re: Your measure. Given that 1/2 degree is usually noticeable to all but the most oblivious general public, you're far better off using a cheap digital protractor than The Dipstick, on account of resolution/interpolation. There's a world of right and wrong in a half turn of the screw. At some point riders will rent a 'set-up binding', and then have (a) baseplate(s) custom printed to their specs. No further adjustability, but then many users don't tweak effectively anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Re: ribs. Whatever you do, don't crash your bike (and get run over) on a Tuesday, then fabricate your own replacement derailleur hanger on Wednesday, then race a criterium that weekend. Makes it kinda hard to breathe. No danger of this happening; far too much initiative required. Re: Your measure. Given that 1/2 degree is usually noticeable to all but the most oblivious general public, you're far better off using a cheap digital protractor than The Dipstick, on account of resolution/interpolation. There's a world of right and wrong in a half turn of the screw. I'm the exception to Fechner's Law; I feel like I'm somehow unable to sense small differences, so I need a tool to do that work. Unless a bona fide dipstick reveals itself, I'll have to buy a digital protractor, bone up on my trigonometry, adopt a zen master approach or stop caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Unless a bona fide dipstick reveals itself, I'll have to buy a digital protractor, bone up on my trigonometry, adopt a zen master approach or stop caring. SOHCAHTOA! http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SOHCAHTOA.html I had never heard of Fechner's Law. Neat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 SOHCAHTOA! http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SOHCAHTOA.html I had never heard of Fechner's Law. Neat! Fantastic! At the time, I thought Perception Psychology was the only class dumber and less applicable to actual human experience than Trigonometry. Now they converge to taunt me in my time of need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruincounselor Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Maybe I missed it scanning posts, but why not use a phone app? I have free app on my 'Droid that is accurate to half a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm the exception to Fechner's Law; I feel like I'm somehow unable to sense small differences, so I need a tool to do that work. Most people insist they have very little sensitivity to minute adjustments to their foot support. "I'm too old..." "I'm not that athletic..." "Princess and the pea? Not me...." The system that keeps you upright is calibrated to very fine tolerances, and functions regardless of your perceptions of it's workings. Fechner notwithstanding (not sure he actually applies in this instance), over all the years I've been doing custom boot work etc, I've only come across one individual that really had no sense of what was going on under his feet. In context, the addition/subtraction of .005-.008" of material under the medial or lateral side of the forefoot. Poke some trig at that. It's not really the measurable change in material thickness that you notice, it's the effect of that change; usually a rather profound absence of muscle activity used to maintain equilibrium. If, however, one is not within the confines of an active ballpark, one is not likely to notice the aroma of stale beer and tepid hot dog water. So either you're one of very few with a 'numbness' to their relative state of equilibrium, or there's something else interfering with the outcome. I'd place my chips on the latter. Unless a bona fide dipstick reveals itself, I'll have to buy a digital protractor, bone up on my trigonometry, adopt a zen master approach or stop caring. Here you go, Mr. Fancy with the Latin: Would recommend something like this: http://www.amazon.com/GemRed-Digital-Protractor-Finder-Inclinometer/dp/B00WQLHG2G/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1444874995&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=digital+level&psc=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ach, The Grail! I'm typing this while down on my knees, shielding my eyes from the glory of it's light! It's so beautiful, like a miniature, aluminum police baton. I want to possess it. Though, by admitting this, I'm also exposing myself as weak, unenlightened and feckless. It's not really the measurable change in material thickness that you notice, it's the effect of that change; usually a rather profound absence of muscle activity used to maintain equilibrium. I seem to recall you doing this to me last year; giving me so much to think about while riding that I can't think about riding...Maybe I should use to dipstick to rework my frontal lobes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 You two geeking out over this alpine bit of machine work is SO worth denying Lord Metro my last copy. Please tell him it is an old photo of a long lost Catek Dipstick Erik. I am enjoying this thread a bit too much :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Chill, Smeagol. Were it so unique I wouldn't be able to make another out of 4043 tig rod. I'd suggest avec Feck. Going without is like losing the opposable thumb. ...giving me so much to think about while riding that I can't think about riding... You don't want to think about your riding while riding, you want to 'observe' your riding while riding. I.e., Verify the centrifuge tally before you start the war, not during. And I think you'll want an orbitoclast. More 'oomph', if you know what I mean, and no stress risers. Bryan, take a closer look at the backdrop. Could be old, could be taken yesterday... ;) Here's the plan: Bryan will send his 'stick to the Doomsday Repository on Svalbard. Once my people receive confirmation, I'll send mine off to LML, where he can build that 1992 Los Angeles Lego diorama once he realizes the measuring limitations of 'Rod Sterling'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 The Dipstick is obsolete, replaced by the Dipstick V2: http://toolmonger.com/2007/04/25/cheap-ass-tools-plastic-vernier-calipers/. Its uses are limited only by imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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