SunSurfer Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Thanks Tom, You've just confirmed my decision to take a pair of bail bindings and a suitable board in the bag to SES to make the most of the Pureboarding clinic. And Pat, there won't be a plate on that! Well, not to start with :) Edited January 22, 2015 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Nice vid Tom, wish there was more of that day. Its been like 8 years since I saw you last. Hope Lisa is well too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Love your post Tom. Lot of great points from the teaching beginners to the varied conditions. I love pulling the technique out for those chopped up powder days. It's nice to be able to just relax and make turns in that stuff, not worrying about stuffing the nose or having your line thrown by the piles. I'll be the first to admit that I was skeptical when I first started learning this method of ridding, but over the past couple seasons I've found myself using it more and more to the point that it's now my reflex, get my ass out of trouble when I find myself pointed somewhere I don't want to be, turn. It just works and it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Thank you for posting Tom! I rode with you at Loveland quite a few years ago when there was a demo there on a very cold January or Febuary day and I did try a two maybe you had brought it? This year I am trying the Pureboarding stance with less angle in the rear foot and am liking it. I am planing on going to SES and demoing a pureboarding board and attending the Pureboarding clinic. Did you like the Bastard better than the two? I also have been working on rotating into my turns and ridiing with a softer rear boot this year. Maybe I will see you at SES or maybe I can go to Monarch and ride with you again soon? Keep up the good work with the videos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Since the day I went to work on this all I have been thinking about is hip rotation. When I watch videos on EC and PB the hip rotation on heal side is huge. I can almost get my hips square across the board but lack of flexibility is making it harder for me. Its defiantly going to take me some time to get my body used to assuming that hip position but Im gonna get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hey Bobby, it sure has been a long time! But 8 years already? Yikes. Tempus fugit :) Lisa says hello back! Bear in mind I'm no instructor and you're a better rider anyways -- but just had a thought on a drill that might help with the body rotation and turns. I sometimes ride with hands in pockets or behind my back, keep my legs bent but basically static, and do all the edge changes just by rotating the torso back and forth. Doing it slow, on a low/medium steepness slope, big wide fast turns. Cool feeling, pretty smooth and relaxing, and maybe a way for you to relax your back a bit? Snowboardfast: unlikely that we'll be at SES this year, vacation schedule follows now our 7 year old's school schedule. But if you're ever coming to Monarch, please let me know, it'd be great to ride together! And yes, I remember riding with you at Loveland, and yes it was me who brought the TWO. It's been a good few years since I rode the PB boards so I can't really comment on any differences between the Two and the Bastard -- but I recall them as being pretty similar. Mark (dingbat) might be a better person to ask. Cheers, tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 PS. I uploaded to youtube a few old movies of riding with the Pureboarding groups: Aspen Feb 2008 and Aspen March 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 2009,This video contains content from [Merlin] PschentMusic, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. 2008 Private Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Poor uploading on my part :) I made them both public and removed the sound tracks... Play your favourite music while you watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sandman Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I have a Coiler ATM 172 with F2 Intec, cants and lifts. In preparation for tomorrow I removed cants and lifts and changed angles to 55/40 I know the PB guys state that Intec limits, and I am willing to replace my intecs with regular bails. What I am not sure though is - as a beginner who barely even is able to carve - can I start with intecs or is it a waste of time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think you'll be just fine -- and you'd probably be OK with the cants and lifts too. Have a good time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think you'd be better of with the cant/lift setup you are used and comfortable with... It's always a bad idea to change to many things at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I have a Coiler ATM 172 with F2 Intec, cants and lifts. In preparation for tomorrow I removed cants and lifts and changed angles to 55/40 I know the PB guys state that Intec limits, and I am willing to replace my intecs with regular bails. What I am not sure though is - as a beginner who barely even is able to carve - can I start with intecs or is it a waste of time? I wouldn't get too caught up in your setup. Use what your used to. If you want to try playing around with something different there is Pure Boarding demo gear here and Ray, Dan, and Joerg can set you up optimally. Drive safely and see you in the morning! Edited January 25, 2015 by lafcadio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hope you take some pics Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxlanaudiere Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I have a Coiler ATM 172 with F2 Intec, cants and lifts. In preparation for tomorrow I removed cants and lifts and changed angles to 55/40 I know the PB guys state that Intec limits, and I am willing to replace my intecs with regular bails. What I am not sure though is - as a beginner who barely even is able to carve - can I start with intecs or is it a waste of time? Im with BlueB on that one. When I first started one big mistake I've made multiple times was to change too many things at once in my way of riding. Either try something new technically wise or change one variable in your binding / board setup. Else you could waste 1 season being all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 HiI poached this comment from another thread and a post by dingbat, but it directly related to this extensive thread on the Pureboarding topic. All the Pure Boarding set ups I have seen run a cant/lift plate under the rear binding. It is the stock plate, I believe about 6* in line with the board, that comes with the Carve Company Speed TC. Dingbat has essentially answered the question, regardless, I was hoping to get a bit of feed back from guys using the PB set up to see if the use of cants comes down to personal preference or if there is a trend with most of the riders using this style of set up.The trend as I read into it now, for Pureboarding set ups, is iBex/Burton bindings, front foot flat, rear foot 7 degree cant/heel lift (old style Burton Wedge); if you use iBex there probably isn't a lot of choice for cants/lifts, etc. It seems to me that using a really flat back foot angle, with a large degree of splay, with hardboots, would make a good amount of cant necessary on the rear boot; but I don't see why heel lift would be needed? I am looking for highly biased cant/lift opinions from guys using bindings set up for Pureboarding.ThanksRob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The trend as I read into it now, for Pureboarding set ups, is iBex/Burton bindings, front foot flat, rear foot 7 degree cant/heel lift (old style Burton Wedge); if you use iBex there probably isn't a lot of choice for cants/lifts, etc. That's pretty much spot on. The PB guys use this setup almost exclusively. Joerg and most of the PB riders run with the front foot flat. I know of one instructor who adds a small bit (guessing 2 degrees) of front toe lift using a custom built shim with the Carve Company Speed bindings. I am looking for highly biased cant/lift opinions from guys using bindings set up for Pureboarding. Before this season my PB setup included F2 Race bindings with front toe lift and cant in addition to rear heel lift and cant using both the large lift blocks and cant wedge from F2 under both front and rear foot. I did this mostly because I was used to riding like this and it felt good. I tried last season to switch to the Carve Company bindings with front foot flat and had a difficult time getting comfortable with it and ultimately went back to the setup I was used to. This season I gave the Carve Company bindings another try and it's felt really good with no difficulty at all. I honestly think It's just a matter of personal preference and comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Personal preference / physique and type of the boot used. This 2nd variable is well covered in a recent UPZ thread. Edited January 27, 2015 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sandman Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Wow. This clinic was amazing! In just 2 hours Joerg helped me progress in a way I couldn't have imagined! I am definitely converted to Pureboarding! Mike it was great fun meeting you and seeing how you ride! Soon you'll be ready to teach! Joerg and the team are a great group and I can't wait to go to their next event on the east coast! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Is anyone who is riding Pureboarding style having a problem with their knee hurting on the rear leg? I have one more thing to try to solve this which will be a softer rear boot. I am riding my Deluxe Susaka in walk mode in the rear. I also went to a flat rear binding because I am bow legged. I am riding both bindings flat after trying a 6 degree cant in the rear and a 3 degree cant in the rear. If I can't get comfortable enough I will have to abandon the pureboarding stance and go back to 50 and 45 instead of 50 and 35 or so.my knee is not wrecked but I am concerned about not doing it any good as I feel that it should not hurt much at all. I am going to try a Lemans boot in the rear with walk mode or very soft bTS next? I guess I will not be riding a Pureboarding board either if I have to go back to 50 and 45? We will have to see? Edited February 15, 2015 by snowboardfast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'm not an expert, but I would say do what's comfortable. If you normally ride 50/45 and that's comfortable, you might want to try something closer to that (e.g., 50/40). For the first couple of seasons of Pure Boarding I used a higher rear angle (45) because it just felt better. Eventually, I realized I could go lower and still feel comfortable. Not sure what changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Because of this thread I decided to set up a board with the PB settings. What I realized is that my All Mountain boards were already set up very close to what the PB guys suggest. For me by back foot was already at the recommended PB angle, but I was riding flat and with less front foot angle. I am using F2 bindings, so I added two of the thin wedges (8 degress cant, no lift) to the back foot. To get a comfortable and relaxed stance, when doing carpet test, I needed to widen my stance a little bit and add more front foot angle; before doing this I was getting a bit of front quad burn when just standing. These changes have turned out to make for one of the most comfortable set ups I have ridden in a long time, for all mountain riding. I am a bit blown away at how much I like these two small changes! For me personally this set up feels like riding my Carveboard in the summer time, a real surf/skate stance feel. Perhaps more cant and experimenting with your stance width may help to take some pressure off of your rear knee as this is what helped with my front quad? Cheers Rob Edited February 16, 2015 by RCrobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I may be trying to rotate too much as well which could be making my knee hurt? The other thing I cannot do is grab the edge of the board during the heelside turn. I also cannot get the board to grip well on harder snow. I don't expect to learn all of the techniques realy fast but I will keep practicing. i did take the clinic at SES last Sunday. I have never been able to obtain good edge grip on harder snow regardless of the type of turn I am doing or board used or setup of the board. I think I am not getting the board high enough off the snow to make it grip better? I have been riding for many years and have taken advice from better riders and watched videos and still can't seem to make much improvement. I guess I am like the lady that sings in the church choir that can't sing well no matter how much practice is put in. I can't sing well either and I did lots of vocalizing drills in High school with a good teacher. I can play saxophone pretty well though. Some of us can get this and some cannot? I do not expect sympathy from anyone on this forum. Ha! I did have a great time at SES and was glad I went . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I also did move my front foot to a higher angle as I was riding at 45 degrees on the front as I have small feet and figured I could balance better and have more leverage with less angle? Maybe I should go back down to 45 in the front and then 30 in the rear? I did use 6 degrees cant with no lift and did widen out my stance. i also tried 3 degrees cant as well. Is the Burton cant wedge way different than what I am using? I can't imagine that it would be the magic pill for me Ha! Since I am bow legged would canting be a problem? The article I read about this was written by bruce Varsava and he was talking about not using cant at higher angles but no discussion on using it at lower angles? I did not see anyone at SES that was riding a Pureboarding board not using cant in the rear foot. all of the Pureboarding instructors were riding the Burton set up. I could go to 9 degrees of cant by putting 3 wedges on the rear of my Phiokia binding as each wedge is 3 degrees. 9degrees of cant seems like a lot? The problem with me is that I can stand on carpet and almost any stance is comfortable just standing there. I also ride a carveboard during the summer to keep things going. i was hoping the carveboard would help me ride my snowboard better . The carve board is the closest thing to a snowboard turn I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I have never been able to obtain good edge grip on harder snow regardless of the type of turn I am doing or board used or setup of the board. I think I am not getting the board high enough off the snow to make it grip better? I have been riding for many years and have taken advice from better riders and watched videos and still can't seem to make much improvement. I guess I am like the lady that sings in the church choir that can't sing well no matter how much practice is put in. I can't sing well either and I did lots of vocalizing drills in High school with a good teacher. I can play saxophone pretty well though. Some of us can get this and some cannot? I do not expect sympathy from anyone on this forum. You seem to think you are bowlegged. If, in fact you are, what works for others in terms of gear configuration and movement philosophy probably won't work for you. The ease with which one can learn to operate a snowboard has quite a bit to do with skeletal conformation. Some have an easy time of it, and others struggle on account of geometry, and need to find unconventional solutions. With regard to how you address your board, consider that it's not always what you do to get the job done, but what you aren't doing. Boards respond to two primary inputs: How and how much you tilt them, and where you stand on their length. It's possible that the means by which you tilt your board is, simultaneously, generating inputs that interfere with it's ability to grip the snow. Try to learn the sax with a broken reed and an oven mitt on one hand. Qualifications notwithstanding, if your teacher can't identify and remove the obstacles to progress, you're not going to get the notes right, regardless of how many 'drills' you practice. Got video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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