A boot for the best of both worlds

[Dave_Gnarski]

Just tossing this idea of mine out there and seeing what there is to be said.

I am soon going to be purchasing a pair of skis for touring and back country shenanigans. The idea is to buy a pair of Fulltilt boots so that i can still use them for digging trenches on the fresh groom then go clip in and skin out the back gate.

Anyone use these boots before? I have done some research on the 3 piece design and it seams pretty robust. And they also do look pretty badass.

Cheers.

[Ladia]

I found them to stiff for my taste, but I prefer softer flex. AT boots work much better for me.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I thought Full Tilts were the modern reissue of the classic Raichle Flexon downhill ski boots. Not sure how they are suitable for skinning. I know some people like them for riding.

[Dave_Gnarski]

Guess ill have to find one of my skiing buddies to let my try but their's will probly be more freestyle skiing oriented boots.

[P06781]

I thought Full Tilts were the modern reissue of the classic Raichle Flexon downhill ski boots. Not sure how they are suitable for skinning. I know some people like them for riding.

I loved hardbooting in flexons using burton raceplates however once I started using bombers they were too stiff. Flexy binding + stiff boot = ok, stiff binding + softer boot= best , stiff boot & stiff binding = ouch...no Buenos .

Try scarpa AT boots as there are almost identical to deluxe SB boots . You can switch out tongues to make them stiffer or softer .

[Johnny]

You can easily swap tongues on FT's to make them softer. I've been thinking of getting some myself.

[BlueB]

Full Tilt are not touring boots. They won't even be very good with skis, for what you described as your goal...

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[Keyser Soze]

Full Tilt are not touring boots. They won't even be very good with skis, for what you described as your goal...

I don't ski, but the general consensus that seems to be reached on BOL when the "boot for both" conversation arises seems to be that ski boots that are flexy enough for snowboarding tend not to be stiff enough for skiing. I've thoroughly enjoyed riding Dalbello Kryptons for the past couple of seasons (with F2 bindings, and not a stiff number like the pre-Sidewinder TDs or Cateks), and I suppose switching the stiffer tongues in may work, but Blue (not to put you on the spot) could probably shed more light on this issue, much the way he has in the past. I believe he rides modified Dalbello boots.

Speaking of which, Blue, I may need to pick your brain (and Beckmann's) as I'm contemplating some mods to a pair of Lange WCs I picked up on the cheap.

[BlueB]

Yeah, KS, that's me, Dalbello ski boot fan...

However, it is not the Flexon/Krypton/Fulltilt shape that was discussed earlier on. I ride and ski in older Carvex/CRX boot, which is the same shell as Head Stratos snowboard boot. I suspect it is made of stiffer plastic, though. I have several pairs. My last one had the BTS mod (lots of work), and internal "V" of the lower shell widened (like the EC guys do with HS boot) and mid buckle kidney hole widened. They worked really well for freeriding on snowboard. When skiing, I wished for less flex backwards, same with snowboarding on hard pack. Last year I went back to non modified version, just the original Walk/Carve/Ski switch, for both snowboard and ski. I rode unlocked for free ride and jumps, and mostly in Carve, front boot, for carving the hard pack. Where I missed the BTS the most was carving through poor condition slope. I might do a BTS pair again this year. Still have another unopened pair.

Last season, Dalbello came up with several models based of my favorite boot, that seem to be a hybrid of AT and ski boot. PanTerra looks great, I think it comes in 90 and 100 flex. It might be just the right boot, to rule them all. I'll post a review, if I managed to get a resonably priced pair.

Lange WC should be one of the stiffest boots around. Becmann might be the better man to advise the mods on those.

[Keyser Soze]

Lange WC should be one of the stiffest boots around. Becmann might be the better man to advise the mods on those.

Yeah, they're definitely not rideable in their current state, going to have to do some work to them. I was actually just looking for a thinner lace-up liner, but the guy was selling the boots/liners for the price I was looking to pay for the liners alone, so I ended up taking them.

[Beckmann AG]

...the general consensus that seems to be reached on BOL when the "boot for both" conversation arises seems to be that ski boots that are flexy enough for snowboarding tend not to be stiff enough for skiing.

As to the skiing half of that situation, that most likely stems from the codified notion that one should use the boot shell as a lever to beat a ski into submission.

Riding an alpine board on stiffer boots comes as second nature once you learn to ski well on a softer performance boot, capitalizing on the intuitive finesse of an unrestricted foot and ankle.

KS:

If you want to mess around with a stiff shell, start off using one on the front foot only. That should minimize shocks to the system.

And find/borrow a CATEK WC/OS1 front binding. Unless you like misery, a stiff shell suggests fine tuning of all parameters, down to the tenth of a degree.

Quantify the bootboard angles of the Dalbello and the WC, and bring the front WC into line with what you are already familiar. (I go 5 degree ramp in front and 6.7 in back. But you're not me, so that might not work for your frame.) Also match the cuff angle of the WC to the Dalbello, both fore/aft, and medial lateral.

Pull the bolts and t-nuts from the boot spine. Save them, though, as you might want to put them back.

Take a run with the WC on the front, and the Dalbello on the back, and ponder the outcome.

(Don't expect to get your COM too close to the top sheet.)

You should notice a better sense of what is going on below the base of the board, and also the need to exercise minimalism in your movements.

The WC shell will eventually crack at the overlap at the top of the instep. Particularly on the rear shell, and especially if you heavily cut that shell to gain additional range of movement.

(There are ways around this, but they are rather involved.)

[nigelc]

If this was Star Wars, Erik, then you would definitely be Yoda

I, on the other hand would be cast as Jabba the Hutt

[Keyser Soze]

If this was Star Wars, Erik, then you would definitely be Yoda

If it's any consolation, I'd be cast as Han Solo while frozen in carbonite.

Pull the bolts and t-nuts from the boot spine. Save them, though, as you might want to put them back.

I think I may have to restrict myself to pulling only one, as pulling both of them out allows he cuff to tilt back and forth with no resistance.

[BlueB]

Huh? What you'd achieve by one bolt? The point is to give freer flex. It's still resisted by the internal shell and liner.

[Keyser Soze]

Hmmm... Never though about that. I'll try them on tonight and see.

[Beckmann AG]

^

I think you'll find that the cuff will more or less stay put once you buckle it and go outside. Pulling the hardware will give you just enough flex to obviate the need for immunosuppressives.

"Training wheels" if you will.

If you try to do the same things you have always done with a more flexible boot, you will hate the WC, as it will be far too 'active' and send way too much input to the board.

Feel your way through your first turns as though walking through a familiar room with the lights out and you'll be fine.

Dear Banana slug/stylized galactic plantation overlord,

I'm not so fictitiously wise, but thanks for thinking so.

[Ernie00]

I've been on this train also. I bought a set of skis because our second son will start skiing next year and there is no way I going back again like the first time on my Kastle 1986 183 cm. I split board on hard boots and ride my hard boots setups (carving and pow setup). I know I can find a good ski boots for cheap for skiing but I'd like to be able to travel light with only one pair of boots. I could get the DIN soles for my UPC but I know with my softer scarpa liner they would be way to soft for skiing. I'll probably go to the store with my UPZ and try on different models to compare the flex. See if I can find something that makes me happy flex wise.

[Rob Stevens]

Where are you skiing, Dave? I can't see "out the back gate" in OH being too over the top.

Jokes... Anyway, if you're a really good carver, go for the ski boots. Unless you like to ride your carving board everywhere, the smooth groomers won't hammer you too badly. As for the b/c in ski boots, the issue there is mainly about comfort on the skin track and your ability to walk around out of the bindings. A walk mode will take care of the first problem, but as to the latter, most a/t boots have a treaded sole, so you could be skating around in places you'd be better off not. Normally, I'd say a/t boots are lighter, but new ski boots are pretty close, so you shouldn't feel whipped after a day walking around if you're in shape.

First Bomber post... It must have snowed in September.

[michael.a]

I've noticed liners make a huge difference in stiffness, plus changing the tongue basically gave me a different boot.

Personally, if I wanted to really ski Id with an alpine touring boot, something like the (really expensive) Dynafit TLTs, now at gen 6.

[b0ardski]

Love it when these "one boot" threads pop up, my favorite subject.

I've finally sprung for a new AT boot that I think will do the job nicely. (borrowed a couple pics)

wanted the softer TX ntn for years to add tele to the mix, but couldn't pass up the 200$ price on these to have the tech/dynafit toe for split board upgrade.

Same shell as their Maestral made with softer PU plastic for 100 flex.

Scarpa's shells run 26.5/27 for a 307 base sole length, 27.5/28 bsl314, so gambled a tight fit for shorter bsl and won. The standard liner w/free flexing cuff fit a bit narrow for the ball of my feet (unmolded). After trying out several different liners for various fit and flex the dynafit vulcan liners I was using in my 324s may negate the need to punch the shells:biggthump

The old raichle thermo wrap liners stiffened them up almost as much as the plastic cuffed nordica granprix liners.

Now however I have to dust off the burton plates as no compatibility for stepin heels:(

anxious for snow

[Johnny]

Those Scarpa's are currently on sale here for one more day: http://www.steepandcheap.com/gear-cache/gear-up-for-winter

[Johnny]

Love it when these "one boot" threads pop up, my favorite subject.

I've finally sprung for a new AT boot that I think will do the job nicely. (borrowed a couple pics)

wanted the softer TX ntn for years to add tele to the mix, but couldn't pass up the 200$ price on these to have the tech/dynafit toe for split board upgrade.

Same shell as their Maestral made with softer PU plastic for 100 flex.

Scarpa's shells run 26.5/27 for a 307 base sole length, 27.5/28 bsl314, so gambled a tight fit for shorter bsl and won. The standard liner w/free flexing cuff fit a bit narrow for the ball of my feet (unmolded). After trying out several different liners for various fit and flex the dynafit vulcan liners I was using in my 324s may negate the need to punch the shells:biggthump

The old raichle thermo wrap liners stiffened them up almost as much as the plastic cuffed nordica granprix liners.

Now however I have to dust off the burton plates as no compatibility for stepin heels:(

anxious for snow

How do they fit into your bindings? Do any mods need to be made to the boots?

[b0ardski]

no issues in most standard plate binders, TD1s have a narrow toe bail and may require a bit of sole cutting on the side.
Haven't tried the burton rat trap yet but I'm sure small notches in the sole heel for the cam lever will be required for smooth stepin function.
update
no mods needed for the Burtons

the scarpas have been working great for carving all mt boards. Been using old snowpro race for the front foot and burton stepin race in walk mode for the rear foot to give extra flex for bumps and pow.

Edited January 22, 2016 by b0ardski

[NMich_trencher]

What bindings are you using - both for ski and carving ? Been carving for a long long time and want to start skiing on twin tips - but only want 1 boot

[b0ardski]

using old sims plates on the venture split

I use old salomon toe pieces for width and height adjustment with any old heel (prefer look/rossi) for skis

 

most newer light weight AT boots in standard plate binders work fine for all mt riding and still ski well, even switch, if the heel pushes the brake in all the way.

Edited January 22, 2016 by b0ardski